How does the SRC radar on the F-4 work? Random?

[Venom]

F-4E, Kurnas, etc. are my favorite aircraft and I have played a lot on them, but to this day I still don't understand how their SRC radar works. I understand that it is interfered with by the ground, that if the aircraft flies low, below radar altitude, it is almost impossible to lock on to it, ok... Although other aircraft like the Mig-23 ML don't have this problem. But I don't understand why the radar behaves so randomly in situations where it should clearly lock on to an enemy aircraft. Logically, I choose isolated targets at a higher altitude where the radar is not interfered with by the ground, etc., but the radar still behaves so randomly. I lock on to some targets immediately, but I can't lock on to others even after 10 attempts where my radar is directly pointing at the enemy. And it doesn't matter if it flies directly towards me, away from me, sideways, etc. Often it flies directly towards me at a high altitude of 8km, it is not possible to lock, 5km, 3 kilometers, simply nothing and it is great that it does not even have to use the chaff precautions. Other times it locks the enemy radar immediately. I especially noticed that the J7D behaves like a stealth aircraft towards the radar. With the J7D I always have a huge problem with the lock even when it flies at high altitude, it does not use chaff, it does not do night, I simply do not lock it. It seems to me that the radar behaves really absolutely randomly. I have games where it works great, I give 5 kills per game, another game it cannot lock clear targets. I will not even write about the AMC mode, it is almost useless. Does the radar distance affect the quality of the lock? I have it set to 48km, I also tried 9-19km but I didn't see any difference in the quality of the lock.

Also, for example, if there are 2-3 enemies in the air, the radar often locks on an enemy who is paradoxically further away, outside the radar, is a less suitable target than the target I want to lock on, which is directly in front of me, it is a clearer target for the radar. It also often happens to me that if my teammate is next to the enemy and not very close, 2-3 kilometers, it always locks on my real teammate who is again and again in a less advantageous position and I am not aiming the radar directly at him and the enemy can fly directly in front of me even without chaff.

As I wrote, I've played a lot on these machines, pretty good K/D, but maybe I'm doing something wrong, I don't know...

Of course, I'm writing about the F-4 versions with only the SRC and ACM radar, not the F-4S, etc.

[Podhalańczyk '90]

i am having similar issues on my f-4ej adtw but the biggest issue i find is that my radar dont see targets over 20km on radar even when i was testing it with friend at 8km+ of altitude so y these radars are random/bad

[Venom]

Originally posted by Podhalańczyk '90:

i am having similar issues on my f-4ej adtw but the biggest issue i find is that my radar dont see targets over 20km on radar even when i was testing it with friend at 8km+ of altitude so y these radars are random/bad

I didn't notice that. Aim-7E DFs don't work very well on targets at a distance of 20km anyway. I rather use them at a distance of 5-8 km. However, if the enemy locks on and the missile loads the target correctly, it can actually be launched at a range of perhaps 4-5 km. Of course, on EJ, which unfortunately only has AIM-7E missiles without DF, you have to shoot at a longer distance because the missiles don't track the enemy immediately after launch like Aim-7E DFs.

[Podhalańczyk '90]

Originally posted by Venom:

Originally posted by Podhalańczyk '90:

i am having similar issues on my f-4ej adtw but the biggest issue i find is that my radar dont see targets over 20km on radar even when i was testing it with friend at 8km+ of altitude so y these radars are random/bad

I didn't notice that. Aim-7E DFs don't work very well on targets at a distance of 20km anyway. I rather use them at a distance of 5-8 km. However, if the enemy locks on and the missile loads the target correctly, it can actually be launched at a range of perhaps 4-5 km. Of course, on EJ, which unfortunately only has AIM-7E missiles without DF, you have to shoot at a longer distance because the missiles don't track the enemy immediately after launch like Aim-7E DFs.

i am locking target only if it is between 12-7 km away but its ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up that i have no ground interference but still i only see enemy at 20 km at radar

[Jaes]

Ah, the good ol' AN/APQ-120 radar. If you can master this radar, you will master how radar works in War Thunder due to how many nuanced rules you need to follow to successfully lock with it. You had to learn these lessons when everyone else had access to a Pulse Doppler radar before the US got access to one.

Rules of Operation:

- It is reliably unreliable

- The closer you are to the target, the more reliable the lock, even through ground clutter

- If any part of the radar beam gets ground returns in the lock attempt, expect the lock to fail

- Always attempt to fly below your intended target - if the radar points toward the ground, regardless of altitude, it can fail

- Smaller targets are harder to detect and lock than larger targets

- The AN/APQ-120 starts its scan pointing above the F-4 then shifts downward in a +3.5/-3.5 degree pattern (7 degree coverage)

- Targets flying level with you can avoid your radar due to the aforementioned scan pattern, try to be at minimum 200m lower than anything you're trying to find

- ACM is 13x13, enabling it pick up ground clutter very easily, try to position your target in the bottom left or bottom right corner of your ACM box, it helps mitigate ground clutter

- Best targets are within 7km distance while using AIM-7E2s (they have a higher velocity than AIM-7F/Ms at this distance and will strike your target first in a joust!)

- If possible, avoid engaging targets greater than 9km in a headon

- You will really only reliably "see" targets no further than 30km and varies on aircraft RCS, altitude, etc.

- Don't bother locking until you can see the target on your 9km radar scope setting, anything outside of that is unreliable and your AIM-7E2 just doesn't have the range to have a high kill probability

- You can lock in ACM through ground clutter if you're close enough.

[Venom]

Originally posted by Jaes:

Ah, the good ol' AN/APQ-120 radar. If you can master this radar, you will master how radar works in War Thunder due to how many nuanced rules you need to follow to successfully lock with it. You had to learn these lessons when everyone else had access to a Pulse Doppler radar before the US got access to one.

Rules of Operation:

- It is reliably unreliable

- The closer you are to the target, the more reliable the lock, even through ground clutter

- If any part of the radar beam gets ground returns in the lock attempt, expect the lock to fail

- Always attempt to fly below your intended target - if the radar points toward the ground, regardless of altitude, it can fail

- Smaller targets are harder to detect and lock than larger targets

- The AN/APQ-120 starts its scan pointing above the F-4 then shifts downward in a +3.5/-3.5 degree pattern (7 degree coverage)

- Targets flying level with you can avoid your radar due to the aforementioned scan pattern, try to be at minimum 200m lower than anything you're trying to find

- ACM is 13x13, enabling it pick up ground clutter very easily, try to position your target in the bottom left or bottom right corner of your ACM box, it helps mitigate ground clutter

- Best targets are within 7km distance while using AIM-7E2s (they have a higher velocity than AIM-7F/Ms at this distance and will strike your target first in a joust!)

- If possible, avoid engaging targets greater than 9km in a headon

- You will really only reliably "see" targets no further than 30km and varies on aircraft RCS, altitude, etc.

- Don't bother locking until you can see the target on your 9km radar scope setting, anything outside of that is unreliable and your AIM-7E2 just doesn't have the range to have a high kill probability

- You can lock in ACM through ground clutter if you're close enough.

Thanks for the full information.

Basically I play as you recommended. I always stay as low as possible to the ground because of the radar so that I have the enemies as much as possible above me. I lock them at a distance of about 5 km, I don't even try to do it above 9 km, not only because of the radar but also because of the missiles which are inaccurate above 9 km.

The problem is that even if I have the enemy in an absolutely perfect position, I am 500 meters above the ground, he is at an altitude of 4 kilometers, I turn the plane towards the sky, so it is really just the enemy and clear sky, but I still have to have 3, 4 or 5 attempts until the radar locks on the enemy. Sometimes it takes so long that the enemy is already too close. Often he doesn't even use chaff and my radar doesn't want to lock on him, that seems a bit strange to me.

But it will probably be like you wrote, it is reliably unreliable. If this radar worked like this in reality, then I really don't envy the pilots.

[jaxjace]

Originally posted by Jaes:

Ah, the good ol' AN/APQ-120 radar. If you can master this radar, you will master how radar works in War Thunder due to how many nuanced rules you need to follow to successfully lock with it. You had to learn these lessons when everyone else had access to a Pulse Doppler radar before the US got access to one.

Rules of Operation:

- It is reliably unreliable

- The closer you are to the target, the more reliable the lock, even through ground clutter

- If any part of the radar beam gets ground returns in the lock attempt, expect the lock to fail

- Always attempt to fly below your intended target - if the radar points toward the ground, regardless of altitude, it can fail

- Smaller targets are harder to detect and lock than larger targets

- The AN/APQ-120 starts its scan pointing above the F-4 then shifts downward in a +3.5/-3.5 degree pattern (7 degree coverage)

- Targets flying level with you can avoid your radar due to the aforementioned scan pattern, try to be at minimum 200m lower than anything you're trying to find

- ACM is 13x13, enabling it pick up ground clutter very easily, try to position your target in the bottom left or bottom right corner of your ACM box, it helps mitigate ground clutter

- Best targets are within 7km distance while using AIM-7E2s (they have a higher velocity than AIM-7F/Ms at this distance and will strike your target first in a joust!)

- If possible, avoid engaging targets greater than 9km in a headon

- You will really only reliably "see" targets no further than 30km and varies on aircraft RCS, altitude, etc.

- Don't bother locking until you can see the target on your 9km radar scope setting, anything outside of that is unreliable and your AIM-7E2 just doesn't have the range to have a high kill probability

- You can lock in ACM through ground clutter if you're close enough.

Man out here doing the gods work when the wiki is dead