Why the hate for 2s38?

[Талант младший]

I have been playing for a while and I am currently researching ussr tech tree. When i was rank 3-4 i bought 2s38 since i thought it would help me progress faster and everyone was saying it is op. (Before people start blaming me for buying premiums that early i can say that now i am having T-80b and Strela researched and bought with decent k/d, like 1.3 for T80b, also have a 1.2 for T-80UK and most of my vehicles have more than 1.1kd). So when i was playing 2s38 for first games it was really bad, but now that i have some experience it is better, but still mid. I am not a fan of camping, hiding or ratting the whole game. When i started i had a crazy low 0.35 kd in it, now i am doing better with 0.9, still not +1 tho. So the question is, why people hate exactly 2s38 when there are several similar vehicles in other tech trees, like begleitpanzer? Both vehicles have mediocre apfsds, fused he, mediocre post pen and paper thin armor, but begleitpanzer also has atgms. Hstvl is also similar, i believe. If people say smtn like: "oh u didn't fight it" i did, because when obj292 event ended almsot each 9.3-11.0 game was a mix up, so i fought it and don't see a reason why people think it is op. Of topic, obj 292 is a glass canon, but it is really solid, i like it and have like 1.7 kd in it. No hate and thank u in advance for explaining

[Gold Merchant Lev]

People hate it because its a premium and because it hasn't been deployed in real life.

[Druckform | INSOMNIAC 3D]

and its ability to frontally pen mbts in places it shouldnt
and have zero reload time so it can fire all its ammo continuously
and be a nightmare to kill as the fuel tank eats most rounds
and the crew being a nightmare to kill as you often only kill 1 of the 3 before dying

EDIT: yeah i completely forgot about the stupidly OP AA abilities it has as ive blocked it out of my mind. it has proxy HE shells with a stupidly fast velocity that can easily take you down from way out of your engagement range, with an extremely good radar.

it either needs to be solely anti tank or solely anti air, dont give it good rounds to kill both, make it fast and hard to kill, its just blatant PTW

[Tankoslav Tepyatdesyatpyatovich]

People from Russian community generally don't seem to think 2S38 is OP, but it's rather toxic against aircraft with fuzed HE and a visual tracking instead of radar, so it doesn't trigger RWS of helicopters and planes and can swiftly dispatch them with invisible 3UO8 (and now it's even easier with all 148 rounds being in the autoloader). It's mostly different from USA and German analogues (like the ones you mentioned) because everyone can buy it without the need to research ground tree till the very rank VII. But yet, although I enjoyed shooting down air targets with it in ground arcade, Strela-M seems to be much more toxic with its missiles that fly much faster and are almost impossible to dodge, a single SPAA of that type easily clears the sky on its own...not sure about GRB and GSB, however, which one of the two is more toxic there.

[xCrossFaith]

Because it's on the USSR tree, as simple and dumb as it may sound, that's the main reason for some people around here to decide if a vehicle is "♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ biased op" or not

That's why you don't see daily complaints about AIM-120's, Type 81C, the TKX or Type 10 or Leopard 2's and so on, but you won't go more than a week without seeing a post complaining about the T-80/90

As some people say it has an edge when it comes to anti air capabilites due to the fuze rounds, but in all honesty, since the tracking update a lot of IFV's can deal with air vehicles as well even if it's only with kinetic ammo
And btw and before the previsible answer of people who can't live outside of extremes, that doesn't mean the 2S38 is not a good vehicle, it's a very powerful vehicle in a very powerful lineup

[Талант младший]

Originally posted by АГЕНТ КАЛИТКИ:

People from Russian community generally don't seem to think 2S38 is OP, but it's rather toxic against aircraft with fuzed HE and a visual tracking instead of radar, so it doesn't trigger RWS of helicopters and planes and can swiftly dispatch them with invisible 3UO8 (and now it's even easier with all 148 rounds being in the autoloader). It's mostly different from USA and German analogues (like the ones you mentioned) because everyone can buy it without the need to research ground tree till the very rank VII. But yet, although I enjoyed shooting down air targets with it in ground arcade, Strela-M seems to be much more toxic with its missiles that fly much faster and are almost impossible to dodge, a single SPAA of that type easily clears the sky on its own...not sure about GRB and GSB, however, which one of the two is more toxic there.

Yeah, now that u mention it i can agree that it is rather toxic than op and that it being a premium makes it worse, because for other analogues people need to grind. As for Strela, it is a really great spaa, but for whatever reason my missiles mostly lock at 2-3km range.

[Талант младший]

Originally posted by xCrossFaith:

Because it's on the USSR tree, as simple and dumb as it may sound, that's the main reason for some people around here to decide if a vehicle is "♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ biased op" or not

That's why you don't see daily complaints about AIM-120's, Type 81C, the TKX or Type 10 or Leopard 2's and so on, but you won't go more than a week without seeing a post complaining about the T-80/90

As some people say it has an edge when it comes to anti air capabilites due to the fuze rounds, but in all honesty, since the tracking update a lot of IFV's can deal with air vehicles as well even if it's only with kinetic ammo

And btw and before the previsible answer of people who can't live outside of extremes, that doesn't mean the 2S38 is not a good vehicle, it's a very powerful vehicle in a very powerful lineup

I heard a lot of people saying: "russian bias" etc and yes sometimes fuel tanks eat shells, but it happens to all nations. 95% of the time playing top tier ussr mbts die to one shot of apfsds into gun breach because of crew being sitted closely and right on auto loader

[Venom]

Originally posted by Mewsuem sculpture:

I have been playing for a while and I am currently researching ussr tech tree. When i was rank 3-4 i bought 2s38 since i thought it would help me progress faster and everyone was saying it is op. (Before people start blaming me for buying premiums that early i can say that now i am having T-80b and Strela researched and bought with decent k/d, like 1.3 for T80b, also have a 1.2 for T-80UK and most of my vehicles have more than 1.1kd). So when i was playing 2s38 for first games it was really bad, but now that i have some experience it is better, but still mid. I am not a fan of camping, hiding or ratting the whole game. When i started i had a crazy low 0.35 kd in it, now i am doing better with 0.9, still not +1 tho. So the question is, why people hate exactly 2s38 when there are several similar vehicles in other tech trees, like begleitpanzer? Both vehicles have mediocre apfsds, fused he, mediocre post pen and paper thin armor, but begleitpanzer also has atgms. Hstvl is also similar, i believe. If people say smtn like: "oh u didn't fight it" i did, because when obj292 event ended almsot each 9.3-11.0 game was a mix up, so i fought it and don't see a reason why people think it is op. Of topic, obj 292 is a glass canon, but it is really solid, i like it and have like 1.7 kd in it. No hate and thank u in advance for explaining

In simplicity

I mention the SPAA, not the one that has good mobility, speed, tower rotation, thermal 3 generation radio cadence, ability to spot enemies, proxy ammunition, sabot ammunition, ammunition with TNT insert, you can destroy light tanks, medium tanks, heavy tanks, aircraft with it , helicopters, everything... In addition, I have an amazing fuel tank that can catch even a projectile from the largest cannon, of course Russia has the superpower of surviving nonsense aaaaa did I forget something? I repeat so that we wake up, this is primarily about SPAA. If this doesn't strike you as OP, then I really don't know what will.

Apart from the fact that this vehicle would never be deployed against MBT tanks, as you will read in every article, it is primarily a SPAA, with the possibility of anti-infantry and lightly armored targets. Also, its AP armor-piercing ammunition is very doubtful if it actually exists for this vehicle and is used, plus some other little things.

You write that you do not understand because it is not the only vehicle, or your statement sounds as if such a vehicle is common in WT, but yes, as you wrote, there is only ONE vehicle capable of competing with the 2s38 and that is the Beglei. But you better look at his stats and compare them with 2s38. There are no other vehicles. And if you call the penetration of this vehicle average, probably nothing tells you something like overpen. You don't need to have a penetration of 600mm if you have a large cadence and shoot at the same place, yes.

From your post, I get the feeling that you've only played Russian so far, so 2s38 OP won't suit you, but you'll see what OP is if you play another 2-3 nations and understand what the difference is. :)

[83athom]

The biggest reason is that the "Western" equivalents (IE the Otomatic and Bagelpanzer) were specifically nerfed repeatedly because they were too good against both air and ground vehicles, yet the 2S38 got the free pass on that for no explainable reason.

Then there's the other nation's light vehicles (IE the HSTVL, Puma, Warrior, etc) be significantly weaker than it yet for no apparent reason are set at a higher BR than it, and/or are artificially nerfed with the wrong statistics but never get fixed despite all the provided sources.

And the topper to it all is that it's a hyper modern vehicle that technically isn't even in service yet that's fighting vehicles from the 70s and early 80s that also aren't fully accurate (read as weaker than they should be) because "sekrit documents comrade". I'm generally not one to fall for the "Russian Bias" BS bad players use to excuse themselves not doing well, but it's undeniable that Gaijin handles Russian vehicles differently than they do any other nation's vehicles. Even CCs that have worked with Gaijin the last decade will attest to bug reports for Russian vehicles get worked on significantly faster with much less supporting documentation for the changes.

[Sierra-Six-Four]

because it is actual an gun based SPAA system but ingame more deadly than most light tanks, it is undertiered as hell if u compare it to highter light tanks (HSTVL best example) and because it is premium it is overused as hell....every match against russia u can expect to see at least 5 or 6 of those means u are very likely to engage it or get double tapped from an bushed up 2S38 camper somewhere hull down.

I think u see the overall fun of that vehicle...oh btw. did i mentioned it has an IRST tracker + proxxy rounds against helis and even jets?

[Chaoslord 87]

What bugs most (myself included) about the 2S38, is that he´s to low in BR for what he brings to the table and that similar vehicles from other nations are either weaker or to high in BR.

Prime example is the OTOMATIC at 11.3.
Like the 2S38, he´s a Cannon SPAA with not much armor (any 20mm will shred it´s Turret) and decent mobility.
At the same Time, the Otomatic is:
-significantly bigger which makes it harder to find hard cover and keep hidden.
-very limited in his self defence capabilities against armored vehicles (12 APFSDS) while the 2S38 can go full Belt (148 APFSDS) if he so chooses.
-vastly outgunned as an SPAA at 11.3 by other Missle SPAA´s and Helicopters and Jets.

For all intents and purposes both the 2S38 and OTOMATIC belong at 10.3-10.7.

[firebat47]

The Dart rounds in the 2S38 are really OP, and combined with its Rate if Fire makes it a really good tank for its BR. Personally I think this tank needs to be balanced by either getting rid of the dart, or moving it to 10.3-11.0.

[Талант младший]

Yeah, i can agree that ussr 10.3 line up is crazy strong and in my opinion it is pretty good choice to make 2s38 like 10.7-11.0 considering all the facts u mentioned above, still i think that it is my skill issue that i can't play this vehicle cause i prefer aggressive plays over camping and ratting

[NOD Flamer]

they hate it because it's russian and below the HSTVL basically

[IcySpirit]

Originally posted by Azrakh The Annihilator:

they hate it because it's russian and below the HSTVL basically

they hate it because its blatantly op

[Chaoslord 87]

Originally posted by Azrakh The Annihilator:

they hate it because it's russian and below the HSTVL basically

The HSTV-L wouldn´t be such a problem at 11.3 if they gave it´s APFSDS their proper pen values (roughly equal to M774 according to some official sources).