B-17-g Gunners dont shoot since last update.

[Lastspartan]

completely worthless gunners never fire a singe shot since the patch. awesome times

[Chaoslink]

I mean, did they really do so before?

Personally, I think that the only time gunners should be doing anything is when they’re controlled by the player. Not a big fan of dying to AI, part of why I’m not a big naval fan. I also don’t like the idea of my AI gunners just spraying all my ammo off into nothing, leaving me with no ammo when I do take control.

Gunners definitely shouldn’t be the laser accurate monsters they used to be, I still remember playing arcade back in the day when bombers were the best vehicles for the air superiority mode because all you had to do was fly through the dogfight and you’d get like 4 kills from just your gunners.

There’s possibly a balance point somewhere between laser beams and the brain dead blind gunners we have now, but it’s one hell of a task to figure out just where that balance lies. Part of the problem is that one singular baseline probably wouldn’t work as the speed of aircraft and caliber of gunner weaponry can be very different as you progress through BRs. They’d need to be balanced individually, either by BR, Caliber of weapon or just by individual plane. That’d be a ridiculous effort to do and would need constant tuning per aircraft. It’s probably better to just leave them useless and require the player to control them.

That said, I’d love a way to alter convergeance distance for gunners on the fly as well as have that ridiculous sway removed so my skill in aiming them actually matters. The convergeance issue really comes up with the big bombers like the BV238 because you really can only aim with one turret unless the target is the exact distance away.

[BTGbullseye]

Originally posted by Chaoslink:

Personally, I think that the only time gunners should be doing anything is when they’re controlled by the player.

Then they need to make the bombers at least as durable as they were in real life, which means that most bombers will be effectively impossible to kill in game.

[Chaoslink]

Originally posted by BTGbullseye:

Originally posted by Chaoslink:

Personally, I think that the only time gunners should be doing anything is when they’re controlled by the player.

Then they need to make the bombers at least as durable as they were in real life, which means that most bombers will be effectively impossible to kill in game.

I mean, they’re not far off as is. The problem is how accurate fighters can be in game due to mouse aim. Bombers do need a bit of a durability buff for sure, but many people overestimate just how durable they really were. Many went down in single strafes.

[Wiesshund]

Originally posted by Chaoslink:

Personally, I think that the only time gunners should be doing anything is when they’re controlled by the player.

Ok, then you want to allow 12 players to poly crew a B17 correct?
Cause that is what you'd get in real life, while the pilot continues to fly

[Chaoslink]

Originally posted by Wiesshund:

Originally posted by Chaoslink:

Personally, I think that the only time gunners should be doing anything is when they’re controlled by the player.

Ok, then you want to allow 12 players to poly crew a B17 correct?
Cause that is what you'd get in real life, while the pilot continues to fly

I mean, that would be neat, but not really viable. I just don’t think AI should be shooting down other players in a PvP game.

[GaijinRuskiHacker]

Originally posted by Chaoslink:

Originally posted by Wiesshund:

Ok, then you want to allow 12 players to poly crew a B17 correct?
Cause that is what you'd get in real life, while the pilot continues to fly

I mean, that would be neat, but not really viable. I just don’t think AI should be shooting down other players in a PvP game.

when was the last time you played bomber ?

[Chaoslink]

Originally posted by GaijinRuskiHacker:

Originally posted by Chaoslink:

I mean, that would be neat, but not really viable. I just don’t think AI should be shooting down other players in a PvP game.

when was the last time you played bomber ?

About 3 days ago if we're talking any bomber in any mode, maybe 2 months ago if we're talking air RB specifically. My first time playing bombers was about 4 months before tanks were added to the game.

[Cream Corn Lover]

Originally posted by Chaoslink:

I mean, did they really do so before?

Personally, I think that the only time gunners should be doing anything is when they’re controlled by the player. Not a big fan of dying to AI, part of why I’m not a big naval fan. I also don’t like the idea of my AI gunners just spraying all my ammo off into nothing, leaving me with no ammo when I do take control.

Gunners definitely shouldn’t be the laser accurate monsters they used to be, I still remember playing arcade back in the day when bombers were the best vehicles for the air superiority mode because all you had to do was fly through the dogfight and you’d get like 4 kills from just your gunners.

There’s possibly a balance point somewhere between laser beams and the brain dead blind gunners we have now, but it’s one hell of a task to figure out just where that balance lies. Part of the problem is that one singular baseline probably wouldn’t work as the speed of aircraft and caliber of gunner weaponry can be very different as you progress through BRs. They’d need to be balanced individually, either by BR, Caliber of weapon or just by individual plane. That’d be a ridiculous effort to do and would need constant tuning per aircraft. It’s probably better to just leave them useless and require the player to control them.

That said, I’d love a way to alter convergeance distance for gunners on the fly as well as have that ridiculous sway removed so my skill in aiming them actually matters. The convergeance issue really comes up with the big bombers like the BV238 because you really can only aim with one turret unless the target is the exact distance away.

If you think bombers shouldn't have ai gunners you either never play bombers or are just mentally challenged. Without the ai gunners bombers would be defenceless 80% of the time

[Resident NATO Freedom Enjoyer]

Originally posted by Chaoslink:

Originally posted by Wiesshund:

Ok, then you want to allow 12 players to poly crew a B17 correct?
Cause that is what you'd get in real life, while the pilot continues to fly

I mean, that would be neat, but not really viable. I just don’t think AI should be shooting down other players in a PvP game.

The only time my gunners shoot anything is if the enemy is actively ramming me in the air. AI gunners if anything should be less accurate but fire from farther away. Right now, without an aced crew, you need to basically be able to visibly see the pilot for your gunners to start shooting by themselves. With an aced crew, you can maybe shoot at the enemy plane with your AI gunners within half a kilo. Which sounds like a lot but arcade has the lead indicator at around .7 kilos so it's still not much of a distance. AI gunners could be more useful if they were less accurate but fired farther away, even if they took time to aim like how naval gunners will fire a few times and then zero in if the enemy stays in the same flight path. Removing gunners from bombers will make nearly useless planes more useless. Because right now, bombers are not as good as CAS bombers in nearly every instance. Even base bombing. Hell, most Japanese bombers get like 3 reasonably decent bombs and their only upside is having 20mm AI gunners that still don't shoot at anything farther than a spit.

[biomike]

Originally posted by Chaoslink:

Originally posted by Wiesshund:

Ok, then you want to allow 12 players to poly crew a B17 correct?
Cause that is what you'd get in real life, while the pilot continues to fly

I mean, that would be neat, but not really viable. I just don’t think AI should be shooting down other players in a PvP game.

Understood, removing base AA. Have fun trying to rearm and repair.

[French Cat]

Originally posted by Chaoslink:

Originally posted by BTGbullseye:

Then they need to make the bombers at least as durable as they were in real life, which means that most bombers will be effectively impossible to kill in game.

I mean, they’re not far off as is. The problem is how accurate fighters can be in game due to mouse aim. Bombers do need a bit of a durability buff for sure, but many people overestimate just how durable they really were. Many went down in single strafes.

Well, there are videos of 110s dumping 30mm into B-17s and maybe only taking an elevator off.

[GaijinRuskiHacker]

Originally posted by French Cat:

Originally posted by Chaoslink:

I mean, they’re not far off as is. The problem is how accurate fighters can be in game due to mouse aim. Bombers do need a bit of a durability buff for sure, but many people overestimate just how durable they really were. Many went down in single strafes.

Well, there are videos of 110s dumping 30mm into B-17s and maybe only taking an elevator off.

the most stupid thing is that hull is weak AF
1 or 2 shots form 20 mm to the middle-rear end of hull will snap and tell you - Tail cut lose .... well thanks

[French Cat]

Originally posted by GaijinRuskiHacker:

Originally posted by French Cat:

Well, there are videos of 110s dumping 30mm into B-17s and maybe only taking an elevator off.

the most stupid thing is that hull is weak AF
1 or 2 shots form 20 mm to the middle-rear end of hull will snap and tell you - Tail cut lose .... well thanks

yea thats the main issue, It's like the hull is held together by glue.

[uɐɐılʎʇs]

Originally posted by GaijinRuskiHacker:

Originally posted by Chaoslink:

I mean, that would be neat, but not really viable. I just don’t think AI should be shooting down other players in a PvP game.

when was the last time you played bomber ?

Been getting quite a few AI gunner kills in my lancaster in GRB, which honestly probably shouldnt happen as much as it has with those guns.

But its more an issue of consistency and luck.
Enemy is close, barely making any moves and in range of multiple AI gunners, not a single hit.
Pulling a stupidly over the top high G manuever and dropping between 2 wildly moving enemies and an ally, AI pilot snipes an enemy.

[Chaoslink]

Originally posted by Cream Corn Lover:

If you think bombers shouldn't have ai gunners you either never play bombers or are just mentally challenged. Without the ai gunners bombers would be defenceless 80% of the time

Defenseless 80% of the time hmm? Last I checked, they don't really fire at all, kinda the point of the post really. If you're relying on the AI gunners, you literally are defenseless as they're not actually going to shoot anyway. Meanwhile, if you manually hop into the gunner controls and use them yourself, its amazing how defended you can be. Depending on the plane, I often at least take down the guy taking me out, but rather frequently fight off multiple aircraft before being taken out or getting back to base. Using the AI gunners is pointless, you should always be manually shooting if you're under attack, 100% of the time.