Why is the M1 Abrams 105mm not the same BR as the T-72A and T-64B?

[bunny]

It has a maximum penetration of 365mm with APFSDS, and that's only if you've unlocked the M774. If not, you're stuck with 284mm of penetration. Lmao, getting uptiered makes it practically useless.

inb4 mobility, skill issue

[bastion of pragmatism]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Psycho:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von bunny bunny bunny:

Why is it that American/western tanks have to play tactics but Russian tanks can be a point and click adventure?

because developers have some sort of fetish for ussr and they want, unlike reality, them to be the strongest

Dudes takes were so stupid they banned him for it. 💀

[redned]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von bunny bunny bunny:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von spartakisteqc:

Because it's massively more mobile and has much better armor than almost every 9.3 BR tanks in the game? Can you really look in the eyes of German players stuck with the Leopard 1A5, the KPz-70 and the M48 Super, the French players stuck with the two AMX-32s and the AMX-30 Super or the Italian players with their OF-40 (MTCA) and tell them that the M1 Abrams is BR 9.3 material?

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Kay:

Mobility, survivability, 4 second reload aced (so it's always faster than T-series tanks), IIRC M774 has better angled performance than the Russian darts at that BR

The lineup it's in will contribute too, since balancing is done based on "statistics"

Seems like a simple fix, then. Keep the Abrams at the current BR and give the 105mm M1 Abrams the M900 APFSDS, as it was used in real life.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von spartakisteqc:

This is a much much more reasonable solution.

never works out for the vehicle that is too good to go down to get a buff. because it always just ends up going up in BR after these buffs.

[bunny]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von redned:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von bunny bunny bunny:

Seems like a simple fix, then. Keep the Abrams at the current BR and give the 105mm M1 Abrams the M900 APFSDS, as it was used in real life.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von spartakisteqc:

This is a much much more reasonable solution.

never works out for the vehicle that is too good to go down to get a buff. because it always just ends up going up in BR after these buffs.

Doesn't matter if it goes up in BR because it's always up tier anyway lol

[redned]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von bunny bunny bunny:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von redned:

never works out for the vehicle that is too good to go down to get a buff. because it always just ends up going up in BR after these buffs.

Doesn't matter if it goes up in BR because it's always up tier anyway lol

it will matter because the new round won't be as effective when it gets an uptier at it's new higher BR.

[bunny]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von redned:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von bunny bunny bunny:

Doesn't matter if it goes up in BR because it's always up tier anyway lol

it will matter because the new round won't be as effective when it gets an uptier at it's new higher BR.

365mm of APFSDS pen at 11.7 is not enough, M900 will help that.

[redned]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von bunny bunny bunny:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von redned:

it will matter because the new round won't be as effective when it gets an uptier at it's new higher BR.

365mm of APFSDS pen at 11.7 is not enough, M900 will help that.

first you don't balance things to be good at a full uptier because if it's good at a full uptier it gets it's BR increased. that's why it shouldn't get the round.

11.7 wouldn't be it's uptier in the scenario I am talking about. like many other instances when vehicles get a mega round and end up moving up in BR.
you would end up 11.0 with 12.0 uptiers. it's already got no lineup unless you uptier vehicles to run them with it. either that or you uptier it to the 11.3 lineup.

it's issue is not it's round the issue is no lineup

[bunny]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von redned:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von bunny bunny bunny:

365mm of APFSDS pen at 11.7 is not enough, M900 will help that.

first you don't balance things to be good at a full uptier because if it's good at a full uptier it gets it's BR increased. that's why it shouldn't get the round.

11.7 wouldn't be it's uptier in the scenario I am talking about. like many other instances when vehicles get a mega round and end up moving up in BR.
you would end up 11.0 with 12.0 uptiers. it's already got no lineup unless you uptier vehicles to run them with it. either that or you uptier it to the 11.3 lineup.

it's issue is not it's round the issue is no lineup

If it got the BR increase with the M900 it will have a line up.. the M900 with it's 513mm is competitive enough to verse other tanks. The current BR(10.7) but gets up tiered to 11.7 90% of the time with only 365mm of pen is not good enough.

[redned]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von bunny bunny bunny:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von redned:

first you don't balance things to be good at a full uptier because if it's good at a full uptier it gets it's BR increased. that's why it shouldn't get the round.

11.7 wouldn't be it's uptier in the scenario I am talking about. like many other instances when vehicles get a mega round and end up moving up in BR.
you would end up 11.0 with 12.0 uptiers. it's already got no lineup unless you uptier vehicles to run them with it. either that or you uptier it to the 11.3 lineup.

it's issue is not it's round the issue is no lineup

If it got the BR increase with the M900 it will have a line up.. the M900 with it's 513mm is competitive enough to verse other tanks. The current BR 10.7 which gets 90% of the time gets up tiered to 11.7 with only 365mm of pen is not good enough.

name a single tank for the US at 11.0

again you don't balance for uptiers. otherwise every vehicle will need buffs then every vehicle will go up. everything is bad at an uptier not just the M1

[spartakisteqc]

I just looked it up which is what I should have done before commenting. When the original M1 entered service in 1980, it used the M774 APFSDS that also entered service the same year and is it's current top round.

In 1983, the M833 entered service which is the first unlockable APFSDS that the IPM1 can get. With a penetration of 395mm at 0 degree, 333mm at 30 degree and 228mm at 60 degree, that should be a reasonable buff as long as it makes sense that it was equiped with it (I'm not super familiar with the Abrams family history).

As for the M900, it entered service in 1993 and in game it has 522mm of pen at 0 degree which is way too strong at 10.7 and quite anachronical on it. And considering that this is the top round of the IPM1 and that this tank rightfully stands at 11.3, are you ready to see your M1 Abrams uptiered to 11.3? I'm pretty sure that you don't.

[redned]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von spartakisteqc:

are you ready to see your M1 Abrams uptiered to 11.3? I'm pretty sure that you don't.

this is exactly my point.

how many times have we seen Israeli vehicles get upped to unplayable BR's because they got a better round.

[spartakisteqc]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von redned:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von spartakisteqc:

are you ready to see your M1 Abrams uptiered to 11.3? I'm pretty sure that you don't.

this is exactly my point.

how many times have we seen Israeli vehicles get upped to unplayable BR's because they got a better round.

I think that's going to be the fate of the Sabra soon enough. That M322 round with 589 of pen at 0 degree at BR 9.7 is absolutely crazy.

[bunny]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von spartakisteqc:

And considering that this is the top round of the IPM1 and that this tank rightfully stands at 11.3, are you ready to see your M1 Abrams uptiered to 11.3? I'm pretty sure that you don't.

It already gets uptiered to 11.7 against T-80Us that have 3BM46 with 526mm of pen and T-72B3, T-90As with its 3BM60 with 567mm of pen, compared to the 105mm cannon M1 Abrams' 365mm APFSDS.

[redned]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von bunny bunny bunny:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von spartakisteqc:

And considering that this is the top round of the IPM1 and that this tank rightfully stands at 11.3, are you ready to see your M1 Abrams uptiered to 11.3? I'm pretty sure that you don't.

It already gets uptiered to 11.7 against T-80Us that have 3BM46 with 526mm of pen and T-72B3, T-90As with its 3BM60 with 567mm of pen, compared to the 105mm cannon M1 Abrams' 365mm APFSDS.

you don't balance for uptiers otherwise every vehicle needs a buff

[bunny]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von redned:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von bunny bunny bunny:

It already gets uptiered to 11.7 against T-80Us that have 3BM46 with 526mm of pen and T-72B3, T-90As with its 3BM60 with 567mm of pen, compared to the 105mm cannon M1 Abrams' 365mm APFSDS.

you don't balance for uptiers otherwise every vehicle needs a buff

I'm sorry but 365mm APFSDS at 11.7 is not enough.

[redned]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von bunny bunny bunny:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von redned:

you don't balance for uptiers otherwise every vehicle needs a buff

I'm sorry but 365mm APFSDS at 11.7 is not enough.

the tank isn't an 11.7 vehicle it just sees them in uptiers. what you are asking for is a round that will make the tank higher in BR.

your options are leave it as is or up it's BR and give it another round.

I can tell you now a better round at a higher BR makes vehicles worse in the end not better.