Beginner question about BR.

[madeL]

I just got into the game and have been practicing dogfight a bit against the ai in the mission editor.

I'm playing the MS405 rated BR2.0 and practiced against bf109E1 rated 2.3 and i've been doing well getting the hang of it.

Today i randomly launched the mission against Fokker dxxi-3 and got absolutely shredded, they are constantly behind me, there was nothing i could do against them. I checked and they are BR1.7....

I noticed the starting fighters in tech trees generally have good turn but low speed so you can just dive in hit fly away and do it again. But the fokkerdxxi3 goes roughly the same speed as the MS405 and turns faster. The main difference i guess is that the MS405 has canons. But whats a canon worth if theres no way to aim at the enemy.

So the fokkerdxxi3 seems a LOT better than the MS405, i just cannot dogfight them. But then why is the MS405 BR:2.0 and the fokker 1.7?

What am i missing?

[Wandering Flare]

First, for context, BR matchmaking goes +-1 of the BR you are matchmaking for, for example at 2.0 you are looking at a 1.0-3.0 BR bracket fighting with and against you. Arcade Air Battles has it at +-1.3 calculated off of an average BR between your planes or something, but every other mode just uses the vehicle with the highest BR in your lineup.

I would strongly suggest, if you are playing Realistic Air Battles, to just play AAB until you get a 3.0 plane as, like you've experienced, starting tier planes are just a mass of perfect turnfighters. Going forward the BR increases based on the plane's performance, i.e. better guns, better engines, better agility from the way the frame is designed, for example the Bf 109 F-4 is good for dogfighting but has terrible guns, whereas the higher BR Bf 109 G-6 has better cannons but loses agility due to the weight.

[madeL]

Originally posted by Wandering Flare:

First, for context, BR matchmaking goes +-1 of the BR you are matchmaking for, for example at 2.0 you are looking at a 1.0-3.0 BR bracket fighting with and against you. Arcade Air Battles has it at +-1.3 calculated off of an average BR between your planes or something, but every other mode just uses the vehicle with the highest BR in your lineup.

I would strongly suggest, if you are playing Realistic Air Battles, to just play AAB until you get a 3.0 plane as, like you've experienced, starting tier planes are just a mass of perfect turnfighters. Going forward the BR increases based on the plane's performance, i.e. better guns, better engines, better agility from the way the frame is designed, for example the Bf 109 F-4 is good for dogfighting but has terrible guns, whereas the higher BR Bf 109 G-6 has better cannons but loses agility due to the weight.

Ok thanks for the answer but thats really not what i was asking for.

[Wandering Flare]

Originally posted by madel:

Originally posted by Wandering Flare:

First, for context, BR matchmaking goes +-1 of the BR you are matchmaking for, for example at 2.0 you are looking at a 1.0-3.0 BR bracket fighting with and against you. Arcade Air Battles has it at +-1.3 calculated off of an average BR between your planes or something, but every other mode just uses the vehicle with the highest BR in your lineup.

I would strongly suggest, if you are playing Realistic Air Battles, to just play AAB until you get a 3.0 plane as, like you've experienced, starting tier planes are just a mass of perfect turnfighters. Going forward the BR increases based on the plane's performance, i.e. better guns, better engines, better agility from the way the frame is designed, for example the Bf 109 F-4 is good for dogfighting but has terrible guns, whereas the higher BR Bf 109 G-6 has better cannons but loses agility due to the weight.

Ok thanks for the answer but thats really not what i was asking for.

Like I said, planes below 3.0 are a mess in terms of BR placements, especially French planes which are complete ♥♥♥♥ early on.

[Berkolok]

Originally posted by madel:

I just got into the game and have been practicing dogfight a bit against the ai in the mission editor.

I'm playing the MS405 rated BR2.0 and practiced against bf109E1 rated 2.3 and i've been doing well getting the hang of it.

Today i randomly launched the mission against Fokker dxxi-3 and got absolutely shredded, they are constantly behind me, there was nothing i could do against them. I checked and they are BR1.7....

I noticed the starting fighters in tech trees generally have good turn but low speed so you can just dive in hit fly away and do it again. But the fokkerdxxi3 goes roughly the same speed as the MS405 and turns faster. The main difference i guess is that the MS405 has canons. But whats a canon worth if theres no way to aim at the enemy.

So the fokkerdxxi3 seems a LOT better than the MS405, i just cannot dogfight them. But then why is the MS405 BR:2.0 and the fokker 1.7?

What am i missing?

air warfare not limited to turn fighting you missing that...Also what game mode you playing arcade or realistic? MS405 not particulary good plane. look for BnZ and energy fighting tutorials in youtube

''why is the MS405 BR:2.0 and the fokker 1.7''
probably because ms405 has 20mm cannon and fokker has only 7.7 guns

[Berkolok]

also BR system not perfect gaijin adjusted them with user performance dont expect logical comparison from them

[jaxjace]

To hopefully answer your original question, The Fokker is .3 BR lower because it lacks cannons and has a lower top speed. That being said, it both turns and climbs better than the MS however the fokkers optimal altitude is significantly higher than the MS and will perform worse than it at normal warthunder match altitude. It has superior dogfight performance but it lacks killing power and will not be able to catch the MS if it decides to run, It accelerates faster but not that much faster and eventually the MS will pull away.

That 20mm is worth a lot

[madeL]

Thank you guys for your answers, i was playing in the mission editor that you can toggle with test in hangar. It was not matchmaking. So i was committed to dogfight in this mode and you can't really pratice bnz because at some point the ai bugs and starts acting like youre not there anymore.

I think i found another explaination as to why the fokker is only 1.7, correct me if i'm wrong but it seems like it has no proper temperature control. So the only way to cool down the engine is to lower throttle for some time. If i'm not mistaking it means the fokker can perform only during a short period of time which is quite a handicap.

[Wandering Flare]

Originally posted by madel:

I think i found another explaination as to why the fokker is only 1.7, correct me if i'm wrong but it seems like it has no proper temperature control. So the only way to cool down the engine is to lower throttle for some time. If i'm not mistaking it means the fokker can perform only during a short period of time which is quite a handicap.

Many planes start overheating at 100% throttle, P-51s, Spitfires, Vampire, etc. Usually you can just lower it down to 98%, at most 95%, and remain cool without any meaningful impact on your speed.

Iirc, you're supposed to be fighting at 90% throttle to begin with, but that is a handicap nobody uses, usually just blasting WEP until their engine temp starts blinking, meaning the engine is actually about to start taking damage. Until that point, the temperature has no negative impact.