CAS needs to be removed from Ground battles.

[firebat47]

If you disagree, then you would be ok with players being able to spawn to spawn as SPAA in air battles. CAS

[Venom]

Originally posted by Dardanel:

I specifically did not say planes and SPAA should be removed from Ground Battle to not make that part of the community go batsh*t crazy (Even tho that would solve a lot of problems). But a plane destroying you right when you spawn/manage to get to the battlefield or having to use SPAA but having no planes around is a legit pain. A battle mode with no planes and SPAA would do wonders and people who like the current one can just use the current one.

I think the game doesn't have enough gaming community for that. If the gaming community was constantly divided into different regimes, the waiting time would increase and there would not be enough players for all possible scenarios, BR, etc. You already have a look at different modes such as simulators or others where you often wait a few minutes for the game. Personally, I don't see any problem in mixed games, that's what I enjoy the most about this game. The fact that many players do not know, do not want to use AA, planes, etc., is their problem. It just needs a better balance on Gaijin's part so that every nation has a sufficiently high-quality choice for defense, which unfortunately is currently a problem for some nations and BR.

[Chaoslink]

Originally posted by dziadek:

then introducing a game mode (ground realistic w/o CAS) wouldn't be "dividing the player base" too much - now would it ?
Some arguments against such a game mode are just illogical (mind it,I didn't say "dumb"...).

If you ran a restaurant that sold pizzas and someone came in claiming that they and their friends wanted a peanut butter and kiwi pizza, would you go out of your way to purchase and source those ingredients that you usually wouldn't have just to satisfy a couple of customers? Sure, that isn't a perfect analogy because Gaijin doesn't need to get anything special really, but the point is more that companies don't have much reason to offer things that only a few people want. You also run the risk of having more players make arbitrary demands because they've seen it work before. "You listened to the handful of tank only players why not give us bomber only air" or whatever else people think of. Then you have to choose arbitrary guidelines of when you listen and when you don't.

Its not as simple as it sounds. I forget what fallacy that is, but I'm pretty sure there is one that fits this scenario.

[dziadek]

Originally posted by Chaoslink:

So you add in a mode where aircraft aren't present. What does this do? Would there be arcade and realistic versions of this mode? Would it just be one?

If you do two modes, then you have to consider that you're dividing every BR between every mode. Seriously consider that for a moment. Even with 200k players, which isn't always a thing, things get kinda light. While not a perfect representation because it isn't evenly balanced, lets look at it a different way.

Ground, Air Naval. split that 200k in thirds. You get 66,667 players.
Arcade, realistic. Not counting Sim here you get 33,333 players.
12 BRs you're at 2,777 players.

That's not too bad. Add in this new mode, you're dividing it again with no CAS AB/RB you'd have 1389.

Dude...it has been said many a time (by some) that players who want Ground Realistic battles w/o CAS are a very small minority...how does that work with your math ?!
If players who want to play with CAS are a HUGE majority - introducing GRB w/o CAS wouldn't affect them much - right? So - make a new mode w/o CAS, and let this "minuscule" minority wait 30, 60, or 500 seconds for a match. Not a skin off your nose...

But logic has never played a role in these discussions, so why should it now...

[Chaoslink]

Originally posted by dziadek:

Dude...it has been said many a time (by some) that players who want Ground Realistic battles w/o CAS are a very small minority...how does that work with your math ?!
If players who want to play with CAS are a HUGE majority - introducing GRB w/o CAS wouldn't affect them much - right? So - make a new mode w/o CAS, and let this "minuscule" minority wait 30, 60, or 500 seconds for a match. Not a skin off your nose...

But logic has never played a role in these discussions, so why should it now...

Now apply that same logic to the other couple of posts I've made. There's far more to this than just adding or not adding a mode. It isn't that simple. There's a logical fallacy for assuming it is, I just don't remember which one. Point is, its not as good an idea as that sounds.

[dziadek]

Originally posted by Chaoslink:

Originally posted by dziadek:

Dude...it has been said many a time (by some) that players who want Ground Realistic battles w/o CAS are a very small minority...how does that work with your math ?!
If players who want to play with CAS are a HUGE majority - introducing GRB w/o CAS wouldn't affect them much - right? So - make a new mode w/o CAS, and let this "minuscule" minority wait 30, 60, or 500 seconds for a match. Not a skin off your nose...

But logic has never played a role in these discussions, so why should it now...

Now apply that same logic to the other couple of posts I've made. There's far more to this than just adding or not adding a mode. It isn't that simple. There's a logical fallacy for assuming it is, I just don't remember which one. Point is, its not as good an idea as that sounds.

As I said - this is a religious dispute. Never worked in the history of humankind.

[Chaoslink]

Originally posted by dziadek:

As I said - this is a religious dispute. Never worked in the history of humankind.

Eh, I'd agree with that only if the religious ones in that scenario are the tank only players. Religion by nature is irrational and no matter how much evidence is thrown at them, the tank only players refuse to see things how they really are.

Again, the community had the chance to ask for this and just adding it to the list of demands created massive controversy amongst the boycott group.

[Drakey Fenix]

Originally posted by Chaoslink:

Originally posted by dziadek:

As I said - this is a religious dispute. Never worked in the history of humankind.

Eh, I'd agree with that only if the religious ones in that scenario are the tank only players. Religion by nature is irrational and no matter how much evidence is thrown at them, the tank only players refuse to see things how they really are.

Again, the community had the chance to ask for this and just adding it to the list of demands created massive controversy amongst the boycott group.

Yeah but that is a trash argument. Because you will never be able to bind the entire community together to make a change. The boycott didn't even work, people still played. Because deep down everyone is selfish and only care about themselves. "Why should I stop playing because other people find the game annoying?" That's the mentality and it would be impossible to change that. A boycott is not the answer to this issue. Dialogue with the actual company behind the game is the way to solve the issue. But the problem is that Gaijin doesn't listen unless the proposed change makes them money somehow. That's all they care about, not passion for making a "fun" game.

[Chaoslink]

Originally posted by Drakey Fenix:

The boycott didn't even work

It kinda did. It got Gaijin's attention and things did begin getting adjusted. It wasn't meant to stop all players from playing, just enough to get their attention. The point isn't whether it worked or not though, the point is that when given the chance, the community decided that asking for tank only wasn't something they wanted.

[Dick Justice]

The biggest issue I find with CAS is that it often targets those who play the objective, more and more it can be seen why people wont go near sites or try and win through objectives. If you hide off the map and just go for kills, its much easier to avoid CAS but you put the burden of sites onto others.

[ThaddeusRoss12]

I mean I don't know what you guys are playing to have long wait times but I find games instantly, the longest I have to wait is perhaps 2 minutes later into the evening. There is no downsides to having a separate game mode in the game and you guys are just disagreeing to disagree.

[Eftwyrd]

Originally posted by ThaddeusRoss12:

I mean I don't know what you guys are playing to have long wait times but I find games instantly, the longest I have to wait is perhaps 2 minutes later into the evening. There is no downsides to having a separate game mode in the game and you guys are just disagreeing to disagree.

Try less popular BRs in the dead of night, those queues are 24/7 and chaoslink has already provided a breakdown of how quickly the player numbers get diluted by the sheer number of options.

Sim didn’t get removed because it didn’t have matches available at peak times, it got removed because they got bad off peak, the number of BRs to spread the players through has only increased since then

This game literally relies on sheer mass of players for every vehicle to remain playable, there is no protection in place for if people simply don’t queue at a certain BR, taking away that mass increases the chances of dead BRs many times over. They literally refused to decompress BRs because of the effect on matchmaking times for years and you are asking for something far more extreme

Insisting it’s fine for you so must be fine for everyone is incredibly naive, particularly given from what you are saying you are playing at peak times. 5+ minute queues already exist for those of us not playing on your schedule

[Chaoslink]

Originally posted by ThaddeusRoss12:

I mean I don't know what you guys are playing to have long wait times but I find games instantly, the longest I have to wait is perhaps 2 minutes later into the evening. There is no downsides to having a separate game mode in the game and you guys are just disagreeing to disagree.

All it would take is just a few options increasing the player division and queue times would go from 10 seconds to 2-3 minutes *on average*. This means some matches might go up to higher counts like 5+ minutes. There are some BRs where this is already the expected queue time, so those BRs would suffer even more.

You can't just consider your own perspective, there are hundreds of thousands of players daily and they all have different experiences with the game. There's more at stake here than just "adding another option". More options isn't universally better.

[dziadek]

Originally posted by Eftwyrd:

This game literally relies on sheer mass of players for every vehicle to remain playable, there is no protection in place for if people simply don’t queue at a certain BR, taking away that mass increases the chances of dead BRs many times over. They literally refused to decompress BRs because of the effect on matchmaking times for years and you are asking for something far more extreme

Insisting it’s fine for you so must be fine for everyone is incredibly naive, particularly given from what you are saying you are playing at peak times. 5+ minute queues already exist for those of us not playing on your schedule

Well - I play at ALL times. Not all the time - but from 9a.m. (morning) till 2.a.m (middle of the night) - I never waited more than 1 minute.

Now: if the game relies on "sheer mass of players for every vehicle" - then maybe the solution should be to remove all crappy vehicles ?
But I guess there is no point in discussing the issue - when the arguments start resembling the "vaccine is good for you", "we need to have net zero", "climate change is the biggest issue", "farmers need to reduce cows farting"...none of which is actually true or proven.

Same as most arguments in this pointless discussion.

You like CAS ? Good for you, enjoy. But please - don't tell me, in the same sentence, that people who want to play w/o CAS are a very small minority, but adding a mode (which presumably you wouldn't play) is going to ruin the game for you and cause some gargantuan consequences for the rest of the players.
This is pure BS. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it.
Let's stop talking about it.

[Chaoslink]

Originally posted by dziadek:

Let's stop talking about it.

If you can manage to get this forum to do that, you'd be the first and probably favorite person on the forum.

[dziadek]

Originally posted by Chaoslink:

Originally posted by dziadek:

Let's stop talking about it.

If you can manage to get this forum to do that, you'd be the first and probably favorite person on the forum.

I have no hope of doing this.
I also have no hope of ever seeing a Ground Realistic mode w/o CAS (although I would like it very much).
I just hate bull*hit arguments. Like I said - for some this is a religion, for some others it is the bottom line, for most players it is no fun (but an addiction).