why didn't WWII tanks have composite armor?

[panzertek CS-BL.com]

Pretty much the title, why some technologies like composite armor and the MBT style tank take until the 60s and 70s to appear?

[Dr. Fronkensteen]

No one thought about it?

[panzertek CS-BL.com]

Postat inițial de Barf the Mawg:

No one thought about it?

It would have made sense to use something lighter than steel to complement armor I think

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Postat inițial de wales grey:

Postat inițial de teki:

It would have made sense to use something lighter than steel to complement armor I think

the notion of using something other than metal didn't really happen until there wasn't a war going on, and even if someone did come up with the idea there wouldn't have been a big enough tech/industrial base for producing it in the quantities required by armies in WW2.

Though imagine a Tiger with composite armor

[panzertek CS-BL.com]

Postat inițial de wales grey:

Postat inițial de teki:

Though imagine a Tiger with composite armor

it'd still be a giant brick; and it's a near-certainty if the Nazis had a given piece of technology in ww2, then so did everyone else (with a few exceptions for esoteric things like rocketry, and unreliable prototype stuff like jet engines. if the war had dragged on any later, you'd see increasingly unreliable and ramshackle 262s vs. increasingly good meteors). i mean, yeah sure the Pz6 with composite armor would probably be a better, lighter tank, but there's only so much you can do with a tank that was designed in 38-39-40.

plus composite armor wouldn't protect it against mobility kills.

One can dream about it though

[Katokevin]

There was far less need. You used AP rounds of the same callibar as your gun (except for the less common APCR) so you could protect the tank with thicker and more sloped armor. 100mm at a 60 degree angle was near impenetrable at the time.

But, advancements in HEAT and APDS post war made very thick armor irrelevant. It was also a complex idea. It takes a lot of engineering to make explosive armor that detonates outwards just after impact or an armor tougher then steel.

So simply due to time and complexity. You just needed thicker and more sloped armor to stop solid AP rounds durring the war due to the ability to mass produce with what you could easily get.

[Illusionyary]

World War II tank crews tended to bail out as soon as they got hit even if it didn't penetrate, so I couldn't really see composite armour being of much use.

[Katokevin]

Postat inițial de Illusionary:

World War II tank crews tended to bail out as soon as they got hit even if it didn't penetrate, so I couldn't really see composite armour being of much use.

They would stay in if it bounced. But spalling may blind or injure a crew member giving them a reason to bail. But even today, even if a round penetrates, they will bail. Penetrate a tank today and you have a near 100% of hitting something critical to the tanks opperation or fighting capability.

[kiro the avenger!]

Postat inițial de Friedhelm Winter:

why didn't ww2 have intercontinental ballistic missiles?

they kinda did :P
park a V2 in eastern europe and fire it into asia >:D

[PyroPaul]

Postat inițial de teki:

Pretty much the title, why some technologies like composite armor and the MBT style tank take until the 60s and 70s to appear?

the Panzer III M and Panzer IV H have composite armor... they are better known as Side-Skirts...

as a Serious answer - Composite Armor is very expensive to produce, and for all of it's extra cost, it actually doesn't provide that much more protection against standard AP Munition - which was the most common attack armor had to counter.

What it does protect against is HEAT munitions. Which only became the most common threat to Tanks during the 60s and 70s with HEAT based warheads for the RPG-7 and M72 LAW.


This ironically is the same reason why the 'MBT' tank design became common place as well...

There is no point to have Heavy Tanks, Assault Tanks, or Infantry Support tanks which depend on their thick heavy armor when they can be knocked out by a single guy with and RPG... And there is no reason to have a dedicated Tank Destroyer when again... RPG.

So we are left with just one tank... Sure it might not be able to do all those other jobs as effective as a tank designed specifically to do that job... but it's flexability helps it do any job that is required of it.

[GoreTiger]

This kid seems kind of obsessed over the Tiger, And sounded a bit sad when he was told the Tiger wasn't as great of a tak as he thought it was.

[Illusionyary]

Postat inițial de Sекяiт Яussiаи Dокuмеитs☭:

Postat inițial de Illusionary:

World War II tank crews tended to bail out as soon as they got hit even if it didn't penetrate, so I couldn't really see composite armour being of much use.

They would stay in if it bounced. But spalling may blind or injure a crew member giving them a reason to bail. But even today, even if a round penetrates, they will bail. Penetrate a tank today and you have a near 100% of hitting something critical to the tanks opperation or fighting capability.

That's not necessarily true. There's a report of one allied tank crew who bailed out of a fully working tank after a bomb landed a couple of feet from them. They convinced themselves they were under aerial attack and got out of that thing as fast as possible.

[kiro the avenger!]

Postat inițial de Illusionary:

Postat inițial de Sекяiт Яussiаи Dокuмеитs☭:

They would stay in if it bounced. But spalling may blind or injure a crew member giving them a reason to bail. But even today, even if a round penetrates, they will bail. Penetrate a tank today and you have a near 100% of hitting something critical to the tanks opperation or fighting capability.

That's not necessarily true. There's a report of one allied tank crew who bailed out of a fully working tank after a bomb landed a couple of feet from them. They convinced themselves they were under aerial attack and got out of that thing as fast as possible.

couple of feet is bloody close for a bomb :P

also got to remember that that would mean an enemy fighter has spotted their position, and i wouldnt wanna hang around for a second pass :/

[MoonPrune]

Postat inițial de teki:

Pretty much the title, why some technologies like composite armor and the MBT style tank take until the 60s and 70s to appear?

A lot of major powers were in the mindset of having Heavy tanks to take the hits and deal out major damage, with more mobile medium tanks outflanking and putting pressure on the enemy. This was adapted from WW2 tactics I believe.

Composite armour didn't exist in WW2, but several tanks like the Panzer III M had the extra plates attached to the front which acted as spaced armour, which is sort of similar. I just read up on this, and apparantly the T95 was the first tank to have a prototype of it, then came the Soviet T-64's with Composite K, and finally Chobham armour which is British and used on a lot of tanks today.

Pyro explained the MBT role I think. Having an all round tank was more viable than several specialised tanks, which had to be in the right place at the right time to be effective.

[Old Man Stockton Senor]

Postat inițial de teki:

Pretty much the title, why some technologies like composite armor and the MBT style tank take until the 60s and 70s to appear?

I don't think anybody had the idea of making an MBT back in the 30s-40s.Everybody was focused on making big,fat tanks with lots and lots of armor.

It wasn't until the Centurion and T-55 that most countries in the world decided that making Heavy tanks was worthless and then switch over to tanks with extremely powerful guns and sanic speed.

[Illusionyary]

Postat inițial de Friedhelm Winter:

Postat inițial de Illusionyary:

That's not necessarily true. There's a report of one allied tank crew who bailed out of a fully working tank after a bomb landed a couple of feet from them. They convinced themselves they were under aerial attack and got out of that thing as fast as possible.

that's called cowardy

A lot of Allied crews, much like the Axis later in the war, were rookie replacements who really didn't have enough training, if any at all, to operate a tank properly. Put yourself in their shoes, enemy aircraft flying above, a loud bang and possible fragments hitting your tuna-can. I'd bail out too.