Why is the SU27 horrible at dogfighting?

[born to shit forced to wipe]

Title

[FizzyElf]

Why necro this?

[I AM THE LAW!]

Originally posted by JuX:

Depends on how your dogfight.

no...no it really doesn't. Everything out dog fights you unless they're entirely skilless. the SU-27s just a glorified missile bus. course...with fox 3's that really doesn't matter anymore...but if you do get stuck in a 1v1 against a f15, f16, mirage 2000, gripen...you're going to lose.

[jaxjace]

Because gaijin in their infinite wisdom reversed the roles back when the Mig29 and F16 were the top dogs, the F16 was made into the dogfighter and the mig29 was made into the missile bus, they intentionally did this because the R27 was by far the most powerful missile in the game and by their logic having the best missile and a good dogfight capability would be OP so they made the Mig 29 heavy. Fast forward to the Su27 and F15 being top dogs and the exact same scenario played out, the su27 with its large capacity for R27 was dominating and they made it heavy so that it couldnt be both the missile slinger and the dogfighter.
Now the R27 is no longer top dog but the FM nerfs to the top tier soviet aircraft remain.

Its true that they are heavier than their western counterparts, its true they should bleed speed RAPIDLY when they pull high AOA, but their energy retention is worse than it should be. The way the Su27 is ingame right now you get one or two high AOA pulls to get an offbore shot on someone with your crazy high G missiles but if you fail to connect your done because you will be in a low speed low energy state and it will take you a little longer than the average plane to speed back up. Combine the icing on the cake of a 10km max range ACM/HMD compared to the 20km ACM/HMD they go against and the Russian top tier fighters are having a rough time. Dont even get me started on the Aim120.

[Schublade]

Originally posted by jaxjace:

Because gaijin in their infinite wisdom reversed the roles back when the Mig29 and F16 were the top dogs, the F16 was made into the dogfighter and the mig29 was made into the missile bus, they intentionally did this because the R27 was by far the most powerful missile in the game and by their logic having the best missile and a good dogfight capability would be OP so they made the Mig 29 heavy. Fast forward to the Su27 and F15 being top dogs and the exact same scenario played out, the su27 with its large capacity for R27 was dominating and they made it heavy so that it couldnt be both the missile slinger and the dogfighter.
Now the R27 is no longer top dog but the FM nerfs to the top tier soviet aircraft remain.

Its true that they are heavier than their western counterparts, its true they should bleed speed RAPIDLY when they pull high AOA, but their energy retention is worse than it should be. The way the Su27 is ingame right now you get one or two high AOA pulls to get an offbore shot on someone with your crazy high G missiles but if you fail to connect your done because you will be in a low speed low energy state and it will take you a little longer than the average plane to speed back up. Combine the icing on the cake of a 10km max range ACM/HMD compared to the 20km ACM/HMD they go against and the Russian top tier fighters are having a rough time. Dont even get me started on the Aim120.

Weight issues were explained. You have nothing to back up you claim of wrong energy retention modelling, you offer nothing but pilot error, no you just described a last resort manouver that failed and have no argument but to assume by carrying and burning more fuel to regain energy that you burned away to get into a usefuel weight to thrust ratio you will now win?

And then you bring in another topic - avionics - as icing on your failure cake? This thread ended fine nine month ago.