Spall Liners for Other Tanks

[florble mcfumperdink]

https://forum.warthunder.com/t/responding-to-issues-regarding-dev-server-reports-an-update-on-spall-lining-armor-from-the-developers/52633/11

The T-90M isn't the only tank to get a spall liner this update, apparently they plane on the later Leo 2s, the M3A3, M1128, and the STRV 122s recieving them this update as well. Other NATO MBTs like the Abrams tanks and the Challenger 2s are also set to receive them, but they are currently gathering the data to model them properly.

Update: Spall liners have been passed for the Leclercs (all variants) and (I think) all M1A2s (base, SEP1, SEP2). I believe they were also passed for the M1A1s. Also, the bug reports on missing armor due to unmodeled DU inserts for the M1A2, SEP1, and SEP2 have apparently been passed an acknowledged.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/18gg2ny/regarding_the_leclerc_situation/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/18gp1jh/abrams_will_get_its_armour_but_when/

Edit 2: Also apparently like everything wrong with/missing from Challenger 2 variants has been ackowledged, passed, and is seemingly being moved towards implementation,

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/18gn342/challenger_buff_incoming/

Yes, I am getting these from the Reddit, mostly because the arguments between users on there give me LESS of a headache than the conversations on the forum.

[legaroojack]

Publicado originalmente por ↯Zindy⛦:

Publicado originalmente por Legaroojack:

Bro is so far up his own ass he cant even bring himself to address the argument properly.

" it sounds like your first time playing warthunder, if so, i apoligize, and welcome." Love this line as well considering I have more hours than you.

1. i dont obsess over other people because im angry enough about them to click their profile and 2. hours dont mean anything if the account is shared.

3. there isn't an arguement, just complaining. we all get gaijined everytime we log onto wt. you're not special like you think.

does it ever occur to you that sometimes russian vehicles get nerfed too? does it ever occur to you sometimes you find the same dumb armor bounces happen in russian vehicles? Have you ever played high tier russia? because I'll tell you it isn't a good experience. slow turret, no depression, slow reverse, slow reload all across the board.

Again you have no argument. I bring actual stats from the game and you bring........................excuses.

However lets look at your claims at the end.
1: Slow reload. No. The T80s all have a 6.5 second reload off the bat which western tanks can only beat by leveling up crew and spending 1 million silver lions and even then its only 0.1 second faster. not to mention the fact that the reload on the L55 is getting nerfed.
2: Slow turret: Kinda true but not at the same time. The end of line russian tanks have fast turret traverses.
3: Slow reverse. If 11km an hour isnt enough for you to get into cover then you over extended and were going to die regardless.
4: Gun depression. The vast majority of the time the maps have massive open flat areas.
5: Slow everything: russian MBT's are some of the fastest at top tier, they generally reach caps just as fast if not faster than others.

To summerise: If you're not having a good experience with top tier russia skill issue. If ammo not exploding, ERA eating APFSDS, superior armour and better thermals arent saving you then it proves my hypothesis that top tier russia mains cannot win unless they are handheld by gaijin.

[↯Zindy⛦]

Publicado originalmente por Legaroojack:

Publicado originalmente por ↯Zindy⛦:

1. i dont obsess over other people because im angry enough about them to click their profile and 2. hours dont mean anything if the account is shared.

3. there isn't an arguement, just complaining. we all get gaijined everytime we log onto wt. you're not special like you think.

does it ever occur to you that sometimes russian vehicles get nerfed too? does it ever occur to you sometimes you find the same dumb armor bounces happen in russian vehicles? Have you ever played high tier russia? because I'll tell you it isn't a good experience. slow turret, no depression, slow reverse, slow reload all across the board.

Again you have no argument. I bring actual stats from the game and you bring........................excuses.

However lets look at your claims at the end.
1: Slow reload. No. The T80s all have a 6.5 second reload off the bat which western tanks can only beat by leveling up crew and spending 1 million silver lions and even then its only 0.1 second faster. not to mention the fact that the reload on the L55 is getting nerfed.
2: Slow turret: Kinda true but not at the same time. The end of line russian tanks have fast turret traverses.
3: Slow reverse. If 11km an hour isnt enough for you to get into cover then you over extended and were going to die regardless.
4: Gun depression. The vast majority of the time the maps have massive open flat areas.
5: Slow everything: russian MBT's are some of the fastest at top tier, they generally reach caps just as fast if not faster than others.

To summerise: If you're not having a good experience with top tier russia skill issue. If ammo not exploding, ERA eating APFSDS, superior armour and better thermals arent saving you then it proves my hypothesis that top tier russia mains cannot win unless they are handheld by gaijin.

none of this applies to most russian tanks, t-62 is slow reload, slow turret, no depression, slow reverse, same for t-54s. they just don’t compete with leos and xm1’s.
most maps i get are golden quarry, karelia, ash river where its def not flat and puts russia at a disadvantage. hop into a T-55, T-54 or T-62 and see if you can race against a leo or xm1 you will be disappointed. even penning the turrets of those tanks is a coin toss with apfsds because it doesn’t react well to the slightest angling. But anyway its clear you’ve never played soviets and it shows. I stopped playing soviet because of all the above reasons and quickly got tired of being outran and out manuevered by every western mbt

[Mary]

Publicado originalmente por florble mcfumperdink:

Publicado originalmente por Legaroojack:

Thats big if true, massive actually. now for the Leopard 2's to get their type D armour

As far as I know this is true, and apparently the reports were forwarded by TrickZZter of all people. Evidently he stepped in and forwarded all of these after another mod, _David Bowie_ (I think that's how his username is, I know there's underscores somewhere) refused to accept a series of manufacturer's reports and government documents on the Leclercs and the M1A2s (among the documents for the latter were several congressional reports, and a few documents signed by important American Chiefs of Staff, including a U.S. President along with corroborating analysis reports by Soviet/Russian analysts on M1A1/A2s that confirmed the armor specs on 120mm gunned Abrams tanks). Bowie actually said that the manufacturers reports and diagrams provided were not enough, and he wanted internal pictures of the fitting process and specified information on the production processes and specific materials used in the spall liners and armor arrays. That is classified info and requesting it also violates Gaijin's policies regarding information on modern tanks and aircraft, which need to be adhered to by both moderators and general forum users. It came as quite a shock to me that there is someone who is arguably worse than TrickZZter in every conceivable way.

Also, I have heard that Smin (or maybe someone else) forwarded the bug reports on the Leo 2A7's hull armor along with a bucketload of longstanding bug reports on the Challenger 2s and the other Leo 2s.

Edit: grammar and information

Edit 2: Also apparently Bowie's shenanigans also violate several EU laws, which could land him in hot water since Gaijin's legal and financial HQs are in Hungary, an EU nation, which means the company and its staff are possibly subject to the EU's corporate fiscal and informational laws.

And I thought that Reddit/Discord mods are the worst, this takes the cake, just what the ♥♥♥♥? I'm starting to believe that Gaijin is forgetting the fact that they are a company.

[legaroojack]

Publicado originalmente por ↯Zindy⛦:

Publicado originalmente por Legaroojack:

Again you have no argument. I bring actual stats from the game and you bring........................excuses.

However lets look at your claims at the end.
1: Slow reload. No. The T80s all have a 6.5 second reload off the bat which western tanks can only beat by leveling up crew and spending 1 million silver lions and even then its only 0.1 second faster. not to mention the fact that the reload on the L55 is getting nerfed.
2: Slow turret: Kinda true but not at the same time. The end of line russian tanks have fast turret traverses.
3: Slow reverse. If 11km an hour isnt enough for you to get into cover then you over extended and were going to die regardless.
4: Gun depression. The vast majority of the time the maps have massive open flat areas.
5: Slow everything: russian MBT's are some of the fastest at top tier, they generally reach caps just as fast if not faster than others.

To summerise: If you're not having a good experience with top tier russia skill issue. If ammo not exploding, ERA eating APFSDS, superior armour and better thermals arent saving you then it proves my hypothesis that top tier russia mains cannot win unless they are handheld by gaijin.

none of this applies to most russian tanks, t-62 is slow reload, slow turret, no depression, slow reverse, same for t-54s. they just don’t compete with leos and xm1’s.
most maps i get are golden quarry, karelia, ash river where its def not flat and puts russia at a disadvantage. hop into a T-55, T-54 or T-62 and see if you can race against a leo or xm1 you will be disappointed. even penning the turrets of those tanks is a coin toss with apfsds because it doesn’t react well to the slightest angling. But anyway its clear you’ve never played soviets and it shows. I stopped playing soviet because of all the above reasons and quickly got tired of being outran and out manuevered by every western mbt

Am i talking about the T62? Are you telling me you're actually so much of a smooth brain that you couldn't understand that this discussion is about top tier? I never once said there was russian bias at any other tier. Also yeah I have played the soviets, literally just finished a match.

[legaroojack]

Publicado originalmente por Mei LeBlanc:

Publicado originalmente por florble mcfumperdink:

As far as I know this is true, and apparently the reports were forwarded by TrickZZter of all people. Evidently he stepped in and forwarded all of these after another mod, _David Bowie_ (I think that's how his username is, I know there's underscores somewhere) refused to accept a series of manufacturer's reports and government documents on the Leclercs and the M1A2s (among the documents for the latter were several congressional reports, and a few documents signed by important American Chiefs of Staff, including a U.S. President along with corroborating analysis reports by Soviet/Russian analysts on M1A1/A2s that confirmed the armor specs on 120mm gunned Abrams tanks). Bowie actually said that the manufacturers reports and diagrams provided were not enough, and he wanted internal pictures of the fitting process and specified information on the production processes and specific materials used in the spall liners and armor arrays. That is classified info and requesting it also violates Gaijin's policies regarding information on modern tanks and aircraft, which need to be adhered to by both moderators and general forum users. It came as quite a shock to me that there is someone who is arguably worse than TrickZZter in every conceivable way.

Also, I have heard that Smin (or maybe someone else) forwarded the bug reports on the Leo 2A7's hull armor along with a bucketload of longstanding bug reports on the Challenger 2s and the other Leo 2s.

Edit: grammar and information

Edit 2: Also apparently Bowie's shenanigans also violate several EU laws, which could land him in hot water since Gaijin's legal and financial HQs are in Hungary, an EU nation, which means the company and its staff are possibly subject to the EU's corporate fiscal and informational laws.

And I thought that Reddit/Discord mods are the worst, this takes the cake, just what the ♥♥♥♥? I'm starting to believe that Gaijin is forgetting the fact that they are a company.

Most of the mods are fine, its just a handful that are actively working against getting western MBT's buffed.

[magazine2]

We also wanted to bring you some news regarding spall liners, this feature is now ready for the following vehicles: the Leopard 2A5, Leopard 2A6 (including the Finnish version), Leopard 2 PSO, Leopard 2A7V, Strv 122A, Strv 122B PLSS, Strv 122B+, Strf 9040C, Challenger 2, Challenger 2 (2F), Challenger 2 TES, Black Night, Challenger 2E, and Challenger 3 (P) — however, it’s only present in the hull for the CR3, as there is no lining in the turret in presentations and videos of the prototype.

https://wt.link/DevServer

[↯Zindy⛦]

Publicado originalmente por Legaroojack:

Publicado originalmente por ↯Zindy⛦:

none of this applies to most russian tanks, t-62 is slow reload, slow turret, no depression, slow reverse, same for t-54s. they just don’t compete with leos and xm1’s.
most maps i get are golden quarry, karelia, ash river where its def not flat and puts russia at a disadvantage. hop into a T-55, T-54 or T-62 and see if you can race against a leo or xm1 you will be disappointed. even penning the turrets of those tanks is a coin toss with apfsds because it doesn’t react well to the slightest angling. But anyway its clear you’ve never played soviets and it shows. I stopped playing soviet because of all the above reasons and quickly got tired of being outran and out manuevered by every western mbt

Am i talking about the T62? Are you telling me you're actually so much of a smooth brain that you couldn't understand that this discussion is about top tier? I never once said there was russian bias at any other tier. Also yeah I have played the soviets, literally just finished a match.

I thought we were talking about how op soviets are against weak western mbts are since you believe in the russian bias myth. having any amount of fantasy armor wont help ♥♥♥♥♥♥ skill level. I fight t-64’s and T-72s and im not complaining. learn to aim. just like soviet players have to aim hard to hit turret ring.

[Cha Cha Real Rough]

Publicado originalmente por magazine2:

We also wanted to bring you some news regarding spall liners, this feature is now ready for the following vehicles: the Leopard 2A5, Leopard 2A6 (including the Finnish version), Leopard 2 PSO, Leopard 2A7V, Strv 122A, Strv 122B PLSS, Strv 122B+, Strf 9040C, Challenger 2, Challenger 2 (2F), Challenger 2 TES, Black Night, Challenger 2E, and Challenger 3 (P) — however, it’s only present in the hull for the CR3, as there is no lining in the turret in presentations and videos of the prototype.

https://wt.link/DevServer

Dang thats pretty good news that spall liners are being introduced, nice job, i just hope it gets added to more vehicles that have them of course.

Also saw that the abrams armor situation was acknowledged, even though i don't play the US i hope they improve its protection

[florble mcfumperdink]

Publicado originalmente por magazine2:

We also wanted to bring you some news regarding spall liners, this feature is now ready for the following vehicles: the Leopard 2A5, Leopard 2A6 (including the Finnish version), Leopard 2 PSO, Leopard 2A7V, Strv 122A, Strv 122B PLSS, Strv 122B+, Strf 9040C, Challenger 2, Challenger 2 (2F), Challenger 2 TES, Black Night, Challenger 2E, and Challenger 3 (P) — however, it’s only present in the hull for the CR3, as there is no lining in the turret in presentations and videos of the prototype.

https://wt.link/DevServer

Thank you!!!

[florble mcfumperdink]

Publicado originalmente por ↯Zindy⛦:

Publicado originalmente por Legaroojack:

Am i talking about the T62? Are you telling me you're actually so much of a smooth brain that you couldn't understand that this discussion is about top tier? I never once said there was russian bias at any other tier. Also yeah I have played the soviets, literally just finished a match.

I thought we were talking about how op soviets are against weak western mbts are since you believe in the russian bias myth. having any amount of fantasy armor wont help ♥♥♥♥♥♥ skill level. I fight t-64’s and T-72s and im not complaining. learn to aim. just like soviet players have to aim hard to hit turret ring.

Well, to be fair, there are some aspects of the armor on Western MBTs that are kinda strange. Most of them are missing like 300-450mms of mantlet armor, and in the case of the Abrams tanks in specific the turret ring is way too thin (50mms instead of 290) and the SEP1/2 still have the 38mm UFP despite that it was upgraded to 50 in those variants (not to mention ARAT 1 and ARAT 2 not being given their proper KE values as well as the missing side hull armor/LFP armor on the SEP1/2) but that isn't exactly a NATO-only problem. Most, if not all, Russ/USSR MBTS having their turret composite cut off a good 4-6 inches away from either side of the gun breach, making it a TBT/overpressure nightmare, is a solid example.

[Ifrit's ShadowA41™]

Anyone believing Gaijin will do anything to fix Limey tanks are just deluding themselves.

[florble mcfumperdink]

Publicado originalmente por Ifrit's ShadowA41™:

Anyone believing Gaijin will do anything to fix Limey tanks are just deluding themselves.

Considering that several fixes are still underway and all the Challenger 2s got spall liners (at a time when all the Leclercs, Abrams tanks, and about two dozen others throughout the remaining tech trees are still missing theirs), it seems they are actually fixing them.

Take thine pessimism elsewhere.

[Ifrit's ShadowA41™]

Publicado originalmente por florble mcfumperdink:

Publicado originalmente por Ifrit's ShadowA41™:

Anyone believing Gaijin will do anything to fix Limey tanks are just deluding themselves.

Considering that several fixes are still underway and all the Challenger 2s got spall liners (at a time when all the Leclercs, Abrams tanks, and about two dozen others throughout the remaining tech trees are still missing theirs), it seems they are actually fixing them.

Take thine pessimism elsewhere.

Okay, so one thing gets fixed for them earlier, no reason to stop being pessimistic, you are just setting yourself up for disappointment.

[florble mcfumperdink]

Publicado originalmente por Ifrit's ShadowA41™:

Publicado originalmente por florble mcfumperdink:

Considering that several fixes are still underway and all the Challenger 2s got spall liners (at a time when all the Leclercs, Abrams tanks, and about two dozen others throughout the remaining tech trees are still missing theirs), it seems they are actually fixing them.

Take thine pessimism elsewhere.

Okay, so one thing gets fixed for them earlier, no reason to stop being pessimistic, you are just setting yourself up for disappointment.

Far too much pessimism man.

[Ifrit's ShadowA41™]

Publicado originalmente por florble mcfumperdink:

Publicado originalmente por Ifrit's ShadowA41™:

Okay, so one thing gets fixed for them earlier, no reason to stop being pessimistic, you are just setting yourself up for disappointment.

Far too much pessimism man.

Not enough pessimism, man. I can go even further beyond.