Kfir Canard is MID

[chicks99]

Hands down, worst gun at 10.7, and worse cannon on a jet I've ever had the displeasure of using.

https://medal.tv/games/war-thunder/clips/1LYNKR1I39Srq9/d1337BuP7WsZ?invite=cr-MSxScjcsMTY5OTIyMDAs

Can somebody tell me how out of 280 rounds not a single one connected?

If I had a M61 vulcan, that F111 would've been scrap, no doubt on my total confirmed 905 kills with a F4 Phantom, a vast majority being with the Vulcan. I would've single handedly won the engagement in a Phantom, with enough missiles to force that F111 to either turn or run out of countermeasures, and a gun that actually works unlike these disgraces found on the Kfir Canard.

Oh and by the way, the RWR on the Canard is useless, there is no launch warning or lock on warning, you see that radar ping - better start guessing because it could be a teammate retreating or an Aim7F coming your way.

The Missiles? It has the aim9G, pretty decent but not great and there's only two. A mig 21 has double of this plane's missiles, if your enemy is aware now you have no missiles left and no kills. Want more, hafta use the guns that don't work.

The only saving grace of this plane is that it's fast with an average payload, good for rushing a base at the start of game. You literally need to get a base because otherwise getting kills is an unreliable source of SL and RP, especially with the dysfunctional 30mm water guns.

[hsf_]

Are you compensating for the drop in bullet velocity between the two different guns?

[chicks99]

Originally posted by hsf_:

Are you compensating for the drop in bullet velocity between the two different guns?

The two guns are the same mounted below the engine intakes, and yes I do compensate for drop at range, but there is also the Parallax effect when you aim the gun in 3rd person which is why I don't compensate for the drop to an extreme degree.

[oulala]

I agree that DEFAs have lower rate of fire and projectile velocity, which is not great.

however in your video, all you show is that you dont know how to use them at all. it was entirely a doable kill even with DEFAs.

[Illusionyary]

DEFAs aren't great for jets due to the poor velocity but what oulala said above is true. You wasted all your ammunition and then ripped your wings off trying to hit a shot you're unlikely to hit, especially as you're not compensating for the drop enough.

They're like using the Mk 108s on the Me 262s, you need to give a metric tonne of lead or get real close to the target. I've managed to snipe a few people at 1km+ ranges with them but they're best employed within 500 meters.

[Dimebag]

Easily my fav HT Premium jet.

Great for bombing and the speed allows you to catch most jets you'll face and use cannons/missiles to kill.

Nothing is GREAT about it but that's good ig as it's a premium

[chicks99]

Originally posted by oulala:

I agree that DEFAs have lower rate of fire and projectile velocity, which is not great.

however in your video, all you show is that you dont know how to use them at all. it was entirely a doable kill even with DEFAs.

Originally posted by Illusionyary:

DEFAs aren't great for jets due to the poor velocity but what oulala said above is true. You wasted all your ammunition and then ripped your wings off trying to hit a shot you're unlikely to hit, especially as you're not compensating for the drop enough.

They're like using the Mk 108s on the Me 262s, you need to give a metric tonne of lead or get real close to the target. I've managed to snipe a few people at 1km+ ranges with them but they're best employed within 500 meters.

Ah ok I see, I didn't know they were low velocity, I was treating it like I would a .50 cal or a M61 Vulcan; the tracers looked pretty quick to me. I had no clue why the tracers were flying all over the enemy and nothing was hitting.

I didn't want to waste the Aim9G either because the Ardvark has flares and a missile approach warning system so it would've done nothing and the guns were my only choice, which I was severely let down by.

On a side note, even when I do hit planes like F5Cs, I rarely ever see them blow up or catch on fire, theres a bit of smoke whenever I hit their plane and they keep on flying, the 30mm seems like it does less damage than the 20-23mms I've used. For the video, lmao I didn't notice I had my sound turned off the entire time cause I wasn't even wearing my headphones.

[oulala]

they arent the best guns thats for sure, but with some practice youll still be able to get some nice kills out of them :)

[✪ Hue!]

If you think the kfir canard is not goated you are dog at the videogame. Learn the videogame before you talk thank you x3

[Gabriel the Apostate of Hate]

https://youtu.be/rrQFeAP432E
you're just bad, guns are fine, you are not.

[chicks99]

Originally posted by ✪ hUE:

If you think the kfir canard is not goated you are dog at the videogame. Learn the videogame before you talk thank you :D

Blud, I currently have a 3.2 KD in the Kfir Canard, and I still don't think it's great, it's average. It has absolutely 0 BVR Capability at 10.7, only 36 countermeasures, a MID 30mm cannon that gets outperformed by a 20mm caliber in damage output, a delta wing that while good for 1 circle fights absolutely can not rate fight and ♥♥♥♥♥ away its speed, and thanks to its speed the fuel consumption is through the roof.

It carries a little over 2500 kg of fuel, it consumes over 390 kg of fuel per minute outputting about 10600 kilogram force of thrust (>23,000 lbs force Thrust) near sea level, equating to a little under 6.5 minutes at full afterburner of endurance, of course you can use 1st stage or turn it off but then you lose the speed advantage.

The Kfir Canard is a very strong dogfighting aircraft, but it is better off used as an express high explosive delivery platform with the 2 aim9Gs and the 30mms for self defense. The Canard is not meant to be sucked into the furballs commonly seen in Air RB because it is dead if it loses its speed and gets third partied. As one of the youtubers said, it is a good aircraft in a sea of great aircraft, it is a VERY good grinder (thanks to being multirole) but is lacking in several important categories towards making it a more competent air superiority fighter.

Compared to my Favorite jet platform in this game, the F4 Phantom II, the Kfir is less versatile, carrying only 2 compared to 8 possible missiles on the Phantom (Including 4 BVR missiles), less than half the maximum payload capacity (bombs and rockets), a less capable RWR (Phantom RWR can detect Mig 23 radar band and give lock and launch warning), has less ammo capacity (280 rds on Kfir Vs. 640/750/1200 rds depending on Phantom Variant), less countermeasures (36 on Kfir vs 60/90/200 depending on Phantom Variant), and a lack of EEGs found on MOST phantom Variants (basically all of them excluding the F4C).

So, tell me again, which plane is goated?

[Illusionyary]

Originally posted by chicks99:

Ah ok I see, I didn't know they were low velocity, I was treating it like I would a .50 cal or a M61 Vulcan; the tracers looked pretty quick to me. I had no clue why the tracers were flying all over the enemy and nothing was hitting.

I think the problem is they have a decent velocity (~800m/s, Vulcan has ~1030m/s) but the shells fall off much faster due to heavy drag, leading to a vastly decreased range. Flying at over mach 1 and using them is limiting the range even more too.

Originally posted by chicks99:

I didn't want to waste the Aim9G either because the Ardvark has flares and a missile approach warning system so it would've done nothing and the guns were my only choice, which I was severely let down by.

Understandable, in your video you were gradually running him down. I would have held fire until you got within 500 meters and then opened up on him, I think you got a bit tunnel visioned and greedy which resulted in you ripping your own wings off. The F-111 in that position was 100% screwed had you not ripped/wasted your ammo.

Originally posted by chicks99:

On a side note, even when I do hit planes like F5Cs, I rarely ever see them blow up or catch on fire, theres a bit of smoke whenever I hit their plane and they keep on flying, the 30mm seems like it does less damage than the 20-23mms I've used. For the video, lmao I didn't notice I had my sound turned off the entire time cause I wasn't even wearing my headphones.

The DEFAs are RNG as hell, sometimes you hit a plane with 3 shells and it detonates into a nuclear explosion (very satisfying), other times you pump 20+ shells into the guy and nothing happens.

They take some getting used to for sure, they're probably one of the hardest cannons to use at that BR but you will get the hang of them if you keep at it.

I really like the Kfir Canard, it's an extremely good grinder being fast enough to bomb one base and then go fighter mode. Take the 2x 2000lbs + 1x 500lb loadout with the 2x AIM-9Gs, this bombload is enough for one base whilst not weighing you down too much allowing you to reach the bases long before anyone else.

[Arc]

I say the same thing about DEFAs, ADENs, MK108s and all of the guns similar to them:

pain in the rear to use, satisfying as hell to get kills with. Run the right belts on any/most of those guns and a single hit could bring a plane down. I play the Kfir C2 (same guns, even higher BR) and nosing on to fatter planes in fights and making them spontaneously combust is bliss.

But yeah, velocity on the rounds is garbage, I like to think if the enemy pilot couldn't see me flipping them off in my own cockpit then I'm not close enough.

[hsf_]

Originally posted by chicks99:

Originally posted by hsf_:

Are you compensating for the drop in bullet velocity between the two different guns?

The two guns are the same mounted below the engine intakes, and yes I do compensate for drop at range, but there is also the Parallax effect when you aim the gun in 3rd person which is why I don't compensate for the drop to an extreme degree.

I was referring to the different bullet speed between the M61 and DEFA.

[✪ Hue!]

Originally posted by chicks99:

Originally posted by ✪ hUE:

If you think the kfir canard is not goated you are dog at the videogame. Learn the videogame before you talk thank you :D

Blud, I currently have a 3.2 KD in the Kfir Canard, and I still don't think it's great, it's average. It has absolutely 0 BVR Capability at 10.7, only 36 countermeasures, a MID 30mm cannon that gets outperformed by a 20mm caliber in damage output, a delta wing that while good for 1 circle fights absolutely can not rate fight and ♥♥♥♥♥ away its speed, and thanks to its speed the fuel consumption is through the roof.

It carries a little over 2500 kg of fuel, it consumes over 390 kg of fuel per minute outputting about 10600 kilogram force of thrust (>23,000 lbs force Thrust) near sea level, equating to a little under 6.5 minutes at full afterburner of endurance, of course you can use 1st stage or turn it off but then you lose the speed advantage.

The Kfir Canard is a very strong dogfighting aircraft, but it is better off used as an express high explosive delivery platform with the 2 aim9Gs and the 30mms for self defense. The Canard is not meant to be sucked into the furballs commonly seen in Air RB because it is dead if it loses its speed and gets third partied. As one of the youtubers said, it is a good aircraft in a sea of great aircraft, it is a VERY good grinder (thanks to being multirole) but is lacking in several important categories towards making it a more competent air superiority fighter.

Compared to my Favorite jet platform in this game, the F4 Phantom II, the Kfir is less versatile, carrying only 2 compared to 8 possible missiles on the Phantom (Including 4 BVR missiles), less than half the maximum payload capacity (bombs and rockets), a less capable RWR (Phantom RWR can detect Mig 23 radar band and give lock and launch warning), has less ammo capacity (280 rds on Kfir Vs. 640/750/1200 rds depending on Phantom Variant), less countermeasures (36 on Kfir vs 60/90/200 depending on Phantom Variant), and a lack of EEGs found on MOST phantom Variants (basically all of them excluding the F4C).

So, tell me again, which plane is goated?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saF5JUjCb5I
the kfir canard is a goated plane.
I have similar stats to you while absolutely throwing for clips.
please stop complaining that the plane is bad, you are bad.

[chicks99]

Originally posted by Arc:

I say the same thing about DEFAs, ADENs, MK108s and all of the guns similar to them:

pain in the rear to use, satisfying as hell to get kills with. Run the right belts on any/most of those guns and a single hit could bring a plane down. I play the Kfir C2 (same guns, even higher BR) and nosing on to fatter planes in fights and making them spontaneously combust is bliss.

But yeah, velocity on the rounds is garbage, I like to think if the enemy pilot couldn't see me flipping them off in my own cockpit then I'm not close enough.

Ahh ok, good rule of thumb to use!

Originally posted by hsf_:

I was referring to the different bullet speed between the M61 and DEFA.

Oh, I don't take the M61 Gunpods on the Kfir Canard because there is no centerline option for it, the 2 wing pylons I use for rockets instead to rush for bases. It is more consistent to get some base damage in each match rather than going for gun kills in terms of SL and RP grinding. I also try to keep planes as clean as possible whenever I'm going into fighter mode, I eject any unneeded ordinance for example if I'm being attacked on take off, a 1200 round M61 gunpod would be acceptable to me only if its center mounted like the F4C.

Originally posted by ✪ hUE:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saF5JUjCb5I
the kfir canard is a goated plane.
I have similar stats to you while absolutely throwing for clips.
please stop complaining that the plane is bad, you are bad.

I never said the Kfir Canard was "bad". I said it was average and mid, big difference, if it was Bad I would've ripped it apart with words on this post. I've flown the F4E Phantom II back when it was top dog, and I would still prefer having it over the Canard in Air RB. The kill you got in your video was nowhere near the distances and speed of mine, while it is a good dogfight kill, the F4S practically served themselves on a platter to you after dumping their speed. A competent F4 pilot would use their BVR Advantage, the F4S clearly didn't operate their radar properly, because if it was in SRC instead of PD the Aim7F would've hit since you didn't chaff.

Not to mention, since you lost energy dodging the Aim7, I would've disengaged as the F4 the moment you started diving down and either go vertical and energy trap once you've nearly completed the loop (looping with a delta wing = no energy left) or run away with the acceleration of 2 powerful engines if you did have enough energy to chase me up.