after flying the f4j and switching over to the f14 recently

[shooterdaddy007]

the f4j is objectively the better aircraft
i can cobra the f4j and i cant cobra the f14
the f4js engines are wildly more powerful even though on paper they dont seem like its that much of a difference
aim54s are kinda moot, because anyone who knows how rb is played is gonna come in treetop level anyway so the weak radar in their nose isnt gonna really be able to hit anything beyond a noob or altitude larper
the f14 gives you a boosted ego, while the f4j requires ignorance of the ego and a focus on technique
f14 has better turn radius but like i said the f4j can cobra and is extremely maneuverable at mid-low speeds with great acceleration while the f14 bleeds energy worse than a p47 and has lackluster acceleration
these are just some of my thoughts on the difference of the f4j and the f14a

[Jaes]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Bimg Meem:

the f4j is objectively the better aircraft

It isn't. It has some unique characteristics you can use to your advantage, but they're one-trick ponies.

Diposting pertama kali oleh Bimg Meem:

i can cobra the f4j and i cant cobra the f14

Neither of these aircraft can "Cobra." Both can do a very ghetto version of it, but you shouldn't do it with either aircraft unless you want to end up dead.

Diposting pertama kali oleh Bimg Meem:

the f4js engines are wildly more powerful even though on paper they dont seem like its that much of a difference

This would be one of the unique niche characteristics you can take advantage of in the F-4 series vs. a F-14A. You have a better acceleration rate so you can potentially get in a near stall scenario and create distance between you and a F-14A, but then you have a Tomcat sitting on your six, which you will not be able to keep out of range indefinitely. While the F-4 can move to a higher energy state faster, the Tomcat has an overall higher top speed.

And that's assuming it doesn't just lock you up and hit you with a Sidewinder or Sparrow.

Diposting pertama kali oleh Bimg Meem:

aim54s are kinda moot

They still have their place. You'd be surprised how often you run into the odd MiG-29 and F-16 flying above 5000m. AIM-54s offer an unparalleled standoff range that other aircraft don't currently have access to. You shouldn't carry more than one or two into battle, but you can still snag kills with them and they force your potential target into bad positioning that you can take advantage of.

Diposting pertama kali oleh Bimg Meem:

the f14 gives you a boosted ego, while the f4j requires ignorance of the ego and a focus on technique

Skill issue.

Diposting pertama kali oleh Bimg Meem:

f14 has better turn radius but like i said the f4j can cobra and is extremely maneuverable at mid-low speeds with great acceleration while the f14 bleeds

I question what you're doing to cause an F-14A to bleed so much speed. The F-4 has no energy state where it can indefinitely maintain X speed because of how its fuselage is designed vs. the F-14 where it can very happily sit in certain speed zones without much speed loss. This is what enables the F-14 to have great Two Circle capabilities, especially at low altitudes.

It's something you're currently doing in the F-4 that doesn't work in the F-14 I'm assuming. F-14s are not ideal at One Circle engagements unless we're working at very low speed states with wings fully extended and applying flaps, which is a position you practically never want to be in because you'll just get ganked by a third party missile.

The only reason an F-4 is potentially better at One Circle is because it can bleed a massive amount of speed very quickly that can cut into players that leave their Afterburner engaged until they run out of fuel. Try it against a pilot that knows better and you're just going to see them swing under/over your nose, circle around while you're trying to regain your energy, and comfortably Fox 2 or gun run you.

If you fail your potentially advantageous One Circle maneuver against most of the things you run into, you lose unless your opponent is very green at engagement Phantoms. That's what makes it a one-trick pony.

The primary issue with the F-14A is you can energy trap it fairly easily. Once it bleeds that speed, it's not getting it back quickly, but you can also use that to your advantage by keeping it in certain speed zones that ultimately slot into your favor in a prolonged Two Circle engagement. This is the primary strength of most 4th Gen US aircraft: superior energy retention in sustained turns compared to everything else they run into. Once you figure that out and start planning your engagements around that strength, you'll see the F-14A shine a lot more. The F-14B by comparison simply eliminates the energy trap issue and makes it an extremely deadly opponent to contend with.


Most importantly, I see you've mentioned absolutely nothing about the radar capabilities between these aircraft, which is the single most important aspect between the F-14A and the F-4J. The ANAPG-59 radar is notably inferior to the Tomcat's AWG-9. Its only unique characteristic is being able to achieve an ACM lock at a further range than the Tomcat, but the primary reason why the Tomcat's radar trumps the F-4J's is thanks to its ability to switch between PD and SRC modes while maintaining a lock, which is a feature the AN/APG-59 is not capable of doing.

This gives you a huge advantage in how to engage and maintain locks using a Fox 1 vs. the F-4J riding or dying on the radar mode you choose when you achieve lock. Being able to switch between the two radar modes greatly increases hit probabilities, and therefore kill rates, with the best missiles available to either aircraft, the AIM-7F.


tl;dr: You're probably using the Tomcat incorrectly and you need to re-adjust how you handle it.

[shooterdaddy007]

i have read your input and i am grateful for your experience in the tomcat and now i will apply this to my strategy while using it
however i still prefer the f4j as a dogfighter over the f14 because of its immense engine power, it is very easy to sling its ass around compared to the f14 even though its fuselage is much less aerodynamic (why didnt they just put f4j engines in f14??)
the radar capabilities are much better in the f14 but i have not unlocked aim54s yet because i was gonna save that for last but youre right the f14 is a standoff fighter so i should probably get the aim54s

[French Cat]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Jaes:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Bimg Meem:

the f4j is objectively the better aircraft

It isn't. It has some unique characteristics you can use to your advantage, but they're one-trick ponies.

Diposting pertama kali oleh Bimg Meem:

i can cobra the f4j and i cant cobra the f14

Neither of these aircraft can "Cobra." Both can do a very ghetto version of it, but you shouldn't do it with either aircraft unless you want to end up dead.

Diposting pertama kali oleh Bimg Meem:

the f4js engines are wildly more powerful even though on paper they dont seem like its that much of a difference

This would be one of the unique niche characteristics you can take advantage of in the F-4 series vs. a F-14A. You have a better acceleration rate so you can potentially get in a near stall scenario and create distance between you and a F-14A, but then you have a Tomcat sitting on your six, which you will not be able to keep out of range indefinitely. While the F-4 can move to a higher energy state faster, the Tomcat has an overall higher top speed.

And that's assuming it doesn't just lock you up and hit you with a Sidewinder or Sparrow.

Diposting pertama kali oleh Bimg Meem:

aim54s are kinda moot

They still have their place. You'd be surprised how often you run into the odd MiG-29 and F-16 flying above 5000m. AIM-54s offer an unparalleled standoff range that other aircraft don't currently have access to. You shouldn't carry more than one or two into battle, but you can still snag kills with them and they force your potential target into bad positioning that you can take advantage of.

Diposting pertama kali oleh Bimg Meem:

the f14 gives you a boosted ego, while the f4j requires ignorance of the ego and a focus on technique

Skill issue.

Diposting pertama kali oleh Bimg Meem:

f14 has better turn radius but like i said the f4j can cobra and is extremely maneuverable at mid-low speeds with great acceleration while the f14 bleeds

I question what you're doing to cause an F-14A to bleed so much speed. The F-4 has no energy state where it can indefinitely maintain X speed because of how its fuselage is designed vs. the F-14 where it can very happily sit in certain speed zones without much speed loss. This is what enables the F-14 to have great Two Circle capabilities, especially at low altitudes.

It's something you're currently doing in the F-4 that doesn't work in the F-14 I'm assuming. F-14s are not ideal at One Circle engagements unless we're working at very low speed states with wings fully extended and applying flaps, which is a position you practically never want to be in because you'll just get ganked by a third party missile.

The only reason an F-4 is potentially better at One Circle is because it can bleed a massive amount of speed very quickly that can cut into players that leave their Afterburner engaged until they run out of fuel. Try it against a pilot that knows better and you're just going to see them swing under/over your nose, circle around while you're trying to regain your energy, and comfortably Fox 2 or gun run you.

If you fail your potentially advantageous One Circle maneuver against most of the things you run into, you lose unless your opponent is very green at engagement Phantoms. That's what makes it a one-trick pony.

The primary issue with the F-14A is you can energy trap it fairly easily. Once it bleeds that speed, it's not getting it back quickly, but you can also use that to your advantage by keeping it in certain speed zones that ultimately slot into your favor in a prolonged Two Circle engagement. This is the primary strength of most 4th Gen US aircraft: superior energy retention in sustained turns compared to everything else they run into. Once you figure that out and start planning your engagements around that strength, you'll see the F-14A shine a lot more. The F-14B by comparison simply eliminates the energy trap issue and makes it an extremely deadly opponent to contend with.


Most importantly, I see you've mentioned absolutely nothing about the radar capabilities between these aircraft, which is the single most important aspect between the F-14A and the F-4J. The ANAPG-59 radar is notably inferior to the Tomcat's AWG-9. Its only unique characteristic is being able to achieve an ACM lock at a further range than the Tomcat, but the primary reason why the Tomcat's radar trumps the F-4J's is thanks to its ability to switch between PD and SRC modes while maintaining a lock, which is a feature the AN/APG-59 is not capable of doing.

This gives you a huge advantage in how to engage and maintain locks using a Fox 1 vs. the F-4J riding or dying on the radar mode you choose when you achieve lock. Being able to switch between the two radar modes greatly increases hit probabilities, and therefore kill rates, with the best missiles available to either aircraft, the AIM-7F.


tl;dr: You're probably using the Tomcat incorrectly and you need to re-adjust how you handle it.

You know, you make good points but, both planes are not as good as the F-4E. Both the F-14 and the F-4j are nothing compared to the F-4E. Also AIM-54s are very situational and you should just carry AIM-7s.

[Wacc]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Bimg Meem:

the f4j is objectively the better aircraft
i can cobra the f4j and i cant cobra the f14
the f4js engines are wildly more powerful even though on paper they dont seem like its that much of a difference
aim54s are kinda moot, because anyone who knows how rb is played is gonna come in treetop level anyway so the weak radar in their nose isnt gonna really be able to hit anything beyond a noob or altitude larper
the f14 gives you a boosted ego, while the f4j requires ignorance of the ego and a focus on technique
f14 has better turn radius but like i said the f4j can cobra and is extremely maneuverable at mid-low speeds with great acceleration while the f14 bleeds energy worse than a p47 and has lackluster acceleration
these are just some of my thoughts on the difference of the f4j and the f14a

I'll never knock a players opinion, as every virtual pilot in this game has a certain play style, and while the Spamtoms might be more up your ally, the F-14 might be up others, and this applies to every plane in existence. I strongly dislike the phantom, and have died more playing it than I have in either the 14A/B. Doesn't make it terrible in general, its just not for me and how I play.

AIM54s aren't that bad, you just aren't using them correctly, they perform the best at high altitude, if you're travelling relatively fast, and if that target is around 25-30mi out, I know for a fact after launching 2-4 I'm getting 1-3 kills with them. Especially if i'm flying the 14B, which is my best plane in terms of K/D.


The rest, Jaes, hit the nail right on the head. So I won't go further.

I recommend adjusting your play-style and use the Tomcats strengths, as they differ from the phantom, or continue to use the Phantom if you feel that plane is better for you, and you aren't a detriment to your team.

Happy flying, and I hope we meet in the skies one day, pilot!