Strela

[Lemon]

How is the strela at 9.3 but the ozelot is at 9.7 while being EXTREMELY weaker, not only does the ozelot not get used since at 9.7 the Gepard 1A2 exists, it also cant be used in most 9.3 lineups like the strela can be used, the strela is also just way better in alot of the stats and has the best G missiles

[Kay]

Originally posted by Bombelos:

Originally posted by Lemon:

How is the strela at 9.3 but the ozelot is at 9.7 while being EXTREMELY weaker, not only does the ozelot not get used since at 9.7 the Gepard 1A2 exists, it also cant be used in most 9.3 lineups like the strela can be used, the strela is also just way better in alot of the stats and has the best G missiles

Ozelot has:
Much better mobility.
Much smaller profile making it extremely easy to hide.
Radar.
Thermals.

I just love when German mains ignore such things and go cry about it on reddit / forum or here.

It doesn't have radar, it has IRST, so it doesn't ping aircraft when they're detected/locked but it works like a missile seeker, it detects heat from the aircraft.

As a slightly off topic note, the Ocelot should really be able to guide the FIM-92K by using the IRST system and datalink, instead of relying on the missile seeker (that's the main change that was made to that version of the Stinger)

[Mad0Dude]

Originally posted by Bombelos:

Originally posted by Lemon:

How is the strela at 9.3 but the ozelot is at 9.7 while being EXTREMELY weaker, not only does the ozelot not get used since at 9.7 the Gepard 1A2 exists, it also cant be used in most 9.3 lineups like the strela can be used, the strela is also just way better in alot of the stats and has the best G missiles

Ozelot has:
Much better mobility.
Much smaller profile making it extremely easy to hide.
Radar.
Thermals.

I just love when German mains ignore such things and go cry about it on reddit / forum or here.

what does mobility help with AA? Can I shoot tanks with ozelot?
No. So what does mobility help me?

Radar is fine, but use does it have if my missles wont turn and the IR wont lock long range?

Sure, easier to hide.. I give you that.
The rest is useless and doesnt bring anything to ground vs air warfare.

[Kay]

Originally posted by Mad0Dude:

Originally posted by Bombelos:

Ozelot has:
Much better mobility.
Much smaller profile making it extremely easy to hide.
Radar.
Thermals.

I just love when German mains ignore such things and go cry about it on reddit / forum or here.

what does mobility help with AA? Can I shoot tanks with ozelot?
No. So what does mobility help me?

Hiding from tanks/aircraft, getting in to covered positions to shoot from, getting ammunition from cap points then returning to shooting positions

Originally posted by Mad0Dude:

Radar is fine, but use does it have if my missles wont turn and the IR wont lock long range?

It lets you see where aircraft are coming from much earlier and easier, letting you pick better positions to shoot them from and avoid guided missiles from them.

Stingers can and do turn, pretty decently tbh, they just don't like following aware and evading jets (helicopters they just kill if they lock, nothing they can do about it in my experience).

Originally posted by Mad0Dude:

Sure, easier to hide.. I give you that.
The rest is useless and doesnt bring anything to ground vs air warfare.

They bring quite a lot to it, if you actually use these tools

[JuX]

Originally posted by Kay:

Originally posted by JuX:

Don't think my stinger has ever even once hit a micro-drone. It's point of demonstration to just how accurate this contrast mode is. Same with how Vikhr AGM's can also hit micro-drones across the map.

It's more to do with range and how long the Stinger's seeker takes to properly take control of the missile, Stingers don't seem to update their target's position until a short time after launch, so drones more than ~800m away they can hit perfectly fine, but closer drones they'll over-correct trying to hit and miss if they manage to turn towards them at all

Originally posted by JuX:

I am aware, but you may not know that most maps do not have background terrain to use. Night time battles are also becoming optional if it wasn't already.

Not to mention some aircrafts straight up prefer high altitude. And there is no way to dodge or decoy the strela. Stingers you can however.

It's still a downside, and doesn't work when there are clouds for aircraft to hide behind or fly through either, which is very common on most maps.

If the aircraft likes being at high altitude, it's usually pretty easy for it to be high enough that the Strela simply can't reach it, and any turns at that altitude will pull even more energy from that missile.

The Strela can also only use one mode at a time, so if it's using the IR mode it's easy to decoy (unlike the Stinger which is actually quite hard to decoy with flares) which it will have to if it's dark (not necessarily night, dusk will do it too) or cloudy

It's a situational improvement for the missile, while it's easier to decoy outside that situation, and the vehicle has a harder time finding targets due to the lack of IRST.

At worst it could go up to 9.7 instead of 9.3, and that wouldn't be too bad of a move, but I don't think it's that much better than the Ocelot or worth being 10.0

Cloud cover is a moot point cause it also affects standard IR missiles as well. Which is why people dip in to clouds in air realistic battles to jam IR missile locks. So it's not exclusive weakness.

Night time is also a moot point cause it's become optional game mode. Rather then being part of rotation. And far as iv seen strela doesn't seem to care about foggy or cloudy conditions. As i still see the missile coming at me just fine.

I simply think it's completely overtuned mechanic, which isn't unheard of when gaijin introduces something new in to the game. But if it's working as intended, then there is no way it's below 10 rating. If you compared it to 9 branch aircrafts.

[Kay]

Originally posted by JuX:

Originally posted by Kay:

It's more to do with range and how long the Stinger's seeker takes to properly take control of the missile, Stingers don't seem to update their target's position until a short time after launch, so drones more than ~800m away they can hit perfectly fine, but closer drones they'll over-correct trying to hit and miss if they manage to turn towards them at all



It's still a downside, and doesn't work when there are clouds for aircraft to hide behind or fly through either, which is very common on most maps.

If the aircraft likes being at high altitude, it's usually pretty easy for it to be high enough that the Strela simply can't reach it, and any turns at that altitude will pull even more energy from that missile.

The Strela can also only use one mode at a time, so if it's using the IR mode it's easy to decoy (unlike the Stinger which is actually quite hard to decoy with flares) which it will have to if it's dark (not necessarily night, dusk will do it too) or cloudy

It's a situational improvement for the missile, while it's easier to decoy outside that situation, and the vehicle has a harder time finding targets due to the lack of IRST.

At worst it could go up to 9.7 instead of 9.3, and that wouldn't be too bad of a move, but I don't think it's that much better than the Ocelot or worth being 10.0

Cloud cover is a moot point cause it also affects standard IR missiles as well. Which is why people dip in to clouds in air realistic battles to jam IR missile locks. So it's not exclusive weakness.

Night time is also a moot point cause it's become optional game mode. Rather then being part of rotation. And far as iv seen strela doesn't seem to care about foggy or cloudy conditions. As i still see the missile coming at me just fine.

It's not just night time, it's any darker sky, IIRC you can encounter those anyway in ground RB without it being night, and can struggle with clouds as the background, not just when they're in between the aircraft and missile (though that's a little inconsistent, and improving the consistency with which it loses lock against less optimal backgrounds would help)

Originally posted by JuX:

I simply think it's completely overtuned mechanic, which isn't unheard of when gaijin introduces something new in to the game. But if it's working as intended, then there is no way it's below 10 rating. If you compared it to 9 branch aircrafts.

So it's equivalent to the new Type-81 (C) SAM, or the Roland? I don't think so, they're both better AA pieces than the Strela, but it is a little strong for 9.3, hence 9.7 as a suggestion.

Comparing it to 9.0 aircraft isn't great either, most of them don't have flares so it wouldn't matter if it was using optical or IR tracking, the optical tracking hasn't changed a whole lot against them and the Stinger/Mistral have similar effectiveness against them

[xCrossFaith]

Originally posted by JuX:

Originally posted by xCrossFaith:

How much optimism did you put in the hope that someone buys into the idea that doesn't happen with other AA's now? Just curious

Don't think my stinger has ever even once hit a micro-drone. It's point of demonstration to just how accurate this contrast mode is. Same with how Vikhr AGM's can also hit micro-drones across the map.

Originally posted by Kay:

So the problem again are the Stingers?

Because I hit the microdrones with the Strela, yes, but also with the ADATS the Type 93 and the new Type 81 as well

[Kay]

Originally posted by xCrossFaith:

Originally posted by JuX:

Don't think my stinger has ever even once hit a micro-drone. It's point of demonstration to just how accurate this contrast mode is. Same with how Vikhr AGM's can also hit micro-drones across the map.

So the problem again are the Stingers?

Because I hit the microdrones with the Strela, yes, but also with the ADATS the Type 93 and the new Type 81 as well

Yeah, Stingers are a little bad (the ADATS uses SACLOS missiles so they don't even need a lock, they just follow the cursor) especially compared to other IR missiles, and especially because we're using later variants that seem to lack some of the improvements made to the missile.

[Arcti]

Originally posted by flat_Lander1:

Originally posted by Arctic:

well, typical soviet holders always will stand for their redThudner's vehicles that ruin balance and see only other nations better. Because soviet holders want to have unbreakable jets, tanks and helicopters. Strela, BMP2M, 2S38, SU25/K to OP in set-up, and if there would be KA-50 on 10.0 ... win rate 100%

okay dude so instead of giving something constructive you went down to soviet bias
as usual when you point out lies about soviet vehicles in the game
the only broken vehicle right now in soviet tech tree is 2s38

What constructive answer you need? Man, I have no idea how such blind need to be to not see imbalance in Soviet tree. We only talk about 9-11.7 BR.
Strela - OP missile , avoid countermeasures when close to jet, has better G , it gives missile fly flexible and in the result destroy wing in manoeuvres. Fly higher than ground and trees - hangar.
Pancir - for closer range 30mm cannons - hangar for helicopters; missile - to high firing range -18km possible kill. 12km - kill and bellow - kill.
Even though Mavericks have firing range 23km, it's not possible to lock someone, over 8km maverick locks ground, mavericks has the worst damage. So Pancir destroy faster than maverick hit target. For helicopters 50/50 , missile too fast that makes fly so low and lose hellfires, countermeasures not always help because heli to heavy to make maneuvers.
T80 bvm, t72b3 over armored, can survive many shells if to not hit under or front side, have faster reload that gives advantages against German/USA tanks in battle.
Turns - not on it's BR
BMP 2m - not on it's BR
Helicopters - has Ataka and Vikhr, higher firing range, gives advantages against other nation. Have air-to-air missiles for close battle on BR below 10.3, Vikhr more powerful than Soviet holders think, fly faster, goes straight, has higher firing range, avoid smokes.
Su 39, all modification 25. can't shoot in back (39)side, has (many)varieties for bombing, since
Nato aviation can't afford fly such freely because of Soviet spaa, all SU without problem destroying enemies, SU have countermeasures that let avoid AIM9 missiles
2s38 has fuse shells that even should not be there, even though it has no armor, it survives well

[Neckstabba]

Originally posted by Arctic:

Originally posted by flat_Lander1:

okay dude so instead of giving something constructive you went down to soviet bias
as usual when you point out lies about soviet vehicles in the game
the only broken vehicle right now in soviet tech tree is 2s38

What constructive answer you need? Man, I have no idea how such blind need to be to not see imbalance in Soviet tree. We only talk about 9-11.7 BR.
Strela - OP missile , avoid countermeasures when close to jet, has better G , it gives missile fly flexible and in the result destroy wing in manoeuvres. Fly higher than ground and trees - hangar.
Pancir - for closer range 30mm cannons - hangar for helicopters; missile - to high firing range -18km possible kill. 12km - kill and bellow - kill.
Even though Mavericks have firing range 23km, it's not possible to lock someone, over 8km maverick locks ground, mavericks has the worst damage. So Pancir destroy faster than maverick hit target. For helicopters 50/50 , missile too fast that makes fly so low and lose hellfires, countermeasures not always help because heli to heavy to make maneuvers.
T80 bvm, t72b3 over armored, can survive many shells if to not hit under or front side, have faster reload that gives advantages against German/USA tanks in battle.
Turns - not on it's BR
BMP 2m - not on it's BR
Helicopters - has Ataka and Vikhr, higher firing range, gives advantages against other nation. Have air-to-air missiles for close battle on BR below 10.3, Vikhr more powerful than Soviet holders think, fly faster, goes straight, has higher firing range, avoid smokes.
Su 39, all modification 25. can't shoot in back (39)side, has (many)varieties for bombing, since
Nato aviation can't afford fly such freely because of Soviet spaa, all SU without problem destroying enemies, SU have countermeasures that let avoid AIM9 missiles
2s38 has fuse shells that even should not be there, even though it has no armor, it survives well

Dont argue with him. He is a RU main.

Strela missile is almost impossible to flare if shot from the rear and can be reliable used from the front due to the G's. VT-1 loses almost all energy at around 9km and has a dead zone from around 1,5km-2km where you cant even control it.
Pantsir missile is just OP and can be steered almost directly after launch and has much better control, better radar, no RWR lock warning (FlakRad and ItO can only use IRST from 15km and it bites flares) and 84° radar elevation, 12 shots and 4x autocannons.

Anyone saying Pantsir is not straight up OP is delusional or a troll.

TorM1 for China had 16km range on the dev server but it was quickly nerfed to 12km. 2S6 got nerfed with the missile change to the ground so the Pantsir could be selled to the people.

Just look how the YAH-64, which has no flares or AA missiles sit at the same BR as the Ka-50 now.

F-16C/D are just so strong to give the RU mains an argument that something else is the top dog. Every other category is a RU vehicle the top dog. Ground, Helis, Naval..

[Arcti]

Originally posted by 🔥Goose Shangajack🔥:

Originally posted by Arctic:

well, typical soviet holders always will stand for their redThudner's vehicles that ruin balance and see only other nations better. Because soviet holders want to have unbreakable jets, tanks and helicopters. Strela, BMP2M, 2S38, SU25/K to OP in set-up, and if there would be KA-50 on 10.0 ... win rate 100%

Ka 50 can be countered by nearly any spaa, it only survives cause it doesnt need a tail. You are a definition of skill issue, ka50 doesnt have thermals, has ♥♥♥♥ optics and when i try to do rocket rush all abrams and leo 2 shoot their mg at me and destroy me. You dying to ka50 is pure skill issue. I actually have more luck and better gameplay with Glynx which is 10x better

Ka-50 does not need thermal. When it stays on side of map and check all spawns what only can destroy it is jet and in condition if Ka50 doesn't see jet. You stay away in 5km, on tree level and nothing will kill you from the ground, Ka50 has much better dynamic and can just turn around in all directions quickly. It is your skill issue if you hovering to high to let send you in hangar. KA50 has the best missile in the game, enough to put down jet, helicopter and tanks. And experienced pilot will not let lose ka50 so easily

[Arcti]

Originally posted by IR9 Neckstabba:

Originally posted by Arctic:

What constructive answer you need? Man, I have no idea how such blind need to be to not see imbalance in Soviet tree. We only talk about 9-11.7 BR.
Strela - OP missile , avoid countermeasures when close to jet, has better G , it gives missile fly flexible and in the result destroy wing in manoeuvres. Fly higher than ground and trees - hangar.
Pancir - for closer range 30mm cannons - hangar for helicopters; missile - to high firing range -18km possible kill. 12km - kill and bellow - kill.
Even though Mavericks have firing range 23km, it's not possible to lock someone, over 8km maverick locks ground, mavericks has the worst damage. So Pancir destroy faster than maverick hit target. For helicopters 50/50 , missile too fast that makes fly so low and lose hellfires, countermeasures not always help because heli to heavy to make maneuvers.
T80 bvm, t72b3 over armored, can survive many shells if to not hit under or front side, have faster reload that gives advantages against German/USA tanks in battle.
Turns - not on it's BR
BMP 2m - not on it's BR
Helicopters - has Ataka and Vikhr, higher firing range, gives advantages against other nation. Have air-to-air missiles for close battle on BR below 10.3, Vikhr more powerful than Soviet holders think, fly faster, goes straight, has higher firing range, avoid smokes.
Su 39, all modification 25. can't shoot in back (39)side, has (many)varieties for bombing, since
Nato aviation can't afford fly such freely because of Soviet spaa, all SU without problem destroying enemies, SU have countermeasures that let avoid AIM9 missiles
2s38 has fuse shells that even should not be there, even though it has no armor, it survives well

Dont argue with him. He is a RU main.

Strela missile is almost impossible to flare if shot from the rear and can be reliable used from the front due to the G's. VT-1 loses almost all energy at around 9km and has a dead zone from around 1,5km-2km where you cant even control it.
Pantsir missile is just OP and can be steered almost directly after launch and has much better control, better radar, no RWR lock warning (FlakRad and ItO can only use IRST from 15km and it bites flares) and 84° radar elevation, 12 shots and 4x autocannons.

Anyone saying Pantsir is not straight up OP is delusional or a troll.

TorM1 for China had 16km range on the dev server but it was quickly nerfed to 12km. 2S6 got nerfed with the missile change to the ground so the Pantsir could be selled to the people.

Just look how the YAH-64, which has no flares or AA missiles sit at the same BR as the Ka-50 now.

F-16C/D are just so strong to give the RU mains an argument that something else is the top dog. Every other category is a RU vehicle the top dog. Ground, Helis, Naval..

agreed with you. By their mind if other nation vehicle can do more than 1kill so it is OP and must be nerfed

[Lemon]

Originally posted by xd:

use flares and get gud plane main

i am playing helicopters, i dont use planes, no i dont have flares i can use, i play germany :)

[Lemon]

Originally posted by IR9 Neckstabba:

Originally posted by Arctic:

What constructive answer you need? Man, I have no idea how such blind need to be to not see imbalance in Soviet tree. We only talk about 9-11.7 BR.
Strela - OP missile , avoid countermeasures when close to jet, has better G , it gives missile fly flexible and in the result destroy wing in manoeuvres. Fly higher than ground and trees - hangar.
Pancir - for closer range 30mm cannons - hangar for helicopters; missile - to high firing range -18km possible kill. 12km - kill and bellow - kill.
Even though Mavericks have firing range 23km, it's not possible to lock someone, over 8km maverick locks ground, mavericks has the worst damage. So Pancir destroy faster than maverick hit target. For helicopters 50/50 , missile too fast that makes fly so low and lose hellfires, countermeasures not always help because heli to heavy to make maneuvers.
T80 bvm, t72b3 over armored, can survive many shells if to not hit under or front side, have faster reload that gives advantages against German/USA tanks in battle.
Turns - not on it's BR
BMP 2m - not on it's BR
Helicopters - has Ataka and Vikhr, higher firing range, gives advantages against other nation. Have air-to-air missiles for close battle on BR below 10.3, Vikhr more powerful than Soviet holders think, fly faster, goes straight, has higher firing range, avoid smokes.
Su 39, all modification 25. can't shoot in back (39)side, has (many)varieties for bombing, since
Nato aviation can't afford fly such freely because of Soviet spaa, all SU without problem destroying enemies, SU have countermeasures that let avoid AIM9 missiles
2s38 has fuse shells that even should not be there, even though it has no armor, it survives well

Dont argue with him. He is a RU main.

Strela missile is almost impossible to flare if shot from the rear and can be reliable used from the front due to the G's. VT-1 loses almost all energy at around 9km and has a dead zone from around 1,5km-2km where you cant even control it.
Pantsir missile is just OP and can be steered almost directly after launch and has much better control, better radar, no RWR lock warning (FlakRad and ItO can only use IRST from 15km and it bites flares) and 84° radar elevation, 12 shots and 4x autocannons.

Anyone saying Pantsir is not straight up OP is delusional or a troll.

TorM1 for China had 16km range on the dev server but it was quickly nerfed to 12km. 2S6 got nerfed with the missile change to the ground so the Pantsir could be selled to the people.

Just look how the YAH-64, which has no flares or AA missiles sit at the same BR as the Ka-50 now.

F-16C/D are just so strong to give the RU mains an argument that something else is the top dog. Every other category is a RU vehicle the top dog. Ground, Helis, Naval..

Not only the that. The flarakrad is also at the same BR as the pantsir even though the flarakrad is the worst one, same applies to the 2s38 being the same BR as the PUMA and the list goes on with similar vehicles, this trend is very common for russian vehicles, better in every way but at the same BR or lower even, for example the Strela

[FkYoSht]

Its far better than it use to be. Now it can lock helis past 1.5km.

[Lemon]

Originally posted by FkYoSht:

Its far better than it use to be. Now it can lock helis past 1.5km.

the stinger still cant :)