Why is APFSDS effective but Sabot much less so?

[Levia]

Now, for this example i'm gonna use Sabot and APDFSDS of the T-55AM-1 (Russian premium 8.7) simply because on paper both the 3BM25 (ABFSDS) and 3BM-8 (Sabot) are basically the same according to the stat card except that the Sabot has like 2mm pen less.
However effectively the APFSDS can cut through Tanks fine but the Sabot has much more difficulty doing the same.

Am I using them wrong?

[kamikazi21358]

APFSDS is superior in nearly every aspect, if you have APFSDS available, APDS can be ignored. The longer rod and fins of the APFSDS make it more accurate, penetrate more, and do more damage, and shatter less than APDS.

[Levia]

Originally posted by kamikazi21358:

APFSDS is superior in nearly every aspect, if you have APFSDS available, APDS can be ignored. The longer rod and fins of the APFSDS make it more accurate, penetrate more, and do more damage, and shatter less than APDS.

Yes, i'm not denying that.

BUT according to the statcards between the two, the only difference is that Sabot is 200 grams or something lighter or heavier (I forgot).
Angle performance? according to the cards exactly the same
Penetration? Sabot roughly has 2mm less even in angles
Velocity? The same

It just makes me think that the statcards for the ammo isn't to be trusted (I already learned the hard way that they're definitely not accurate for planes, but nothing else this far)

[j.yellow28]

APFSDS is usally made from a denser metal such as depleated urainum and tungstun (my dyslexic ass cant spell sorry) so it allows more pen at angles and overall. also since its a denser metal its post pen damage usally creates more spawll inside the target and looses its velosity much less allowing it to overpen at times.

[kamikazi21358]

Originally posted by Levi:

Originally posted by kamikazi21358:

APFSDS is superior in nearly every aspect, if you have APFSDS available, APDS can be ignored. The longer rod and fins of the APFSDS make it more accurate, penetrate more, and do more damage, and shatter less than APDS.

Yes, i'm not denying that.

BUT according to the statcards between the two, the only difference is that Sabot is 200 grams or something lighter or heavier (I forgot).
Angle performance? according to the cards exactly the same
Penetration? Sabot roughly has 2mm less even in angles
Velocity? The same

It just makes me think that the statcards for the ammo isn't to be trusted (I already learned the hard way that they're definitely not accurate for planes, but nothing else this far)

Also the effectiveness changes in game as they buff and nerf different types of ammunition. Currently, APDS is pretty nerfed, so despite the lack of difference, it probably is less effective just because it is APDS and APDS is bad right now.

[Kay]

Originally posted by j.yellow28:

APFSDS is usally made from a denser metal such as depleated urainum and tungstun (my dyslexic ass cant spell sorry) so it allows more pen at angles and overall. also since its a denser metal its post pen damage usally creates more spawll inside the target and looses its velosity much less allowing it to overpen at times.

There are also Tungsten APDS rounds, and early APFSDS was sometimes made from steel.

The angle pen isn't from density, it's from the rod flexing on impact which pushes the tip into a more favourable angle for penetration, which is why longer rods perform better at angles.

Originally posted by kamikazi21358:

Also the effectiveness changes in game as they buff and nerf different types of ammunition. Currently, APDS is pretty nerfed, so despite the lack of difference, it probably is less effective just because it is APDS and APDS is bad right now.

Pretty much exactly this, they're programmed to have different damage models and interact differently with some kinds of armour, regardless of if they should have any difference in performance

[Levia]

Originally posted by Kay:

Originally posted by kamikazi21358:

Also the effectiveness changes in game as they buff and nerf different types of ammunition. Currently, APDS is pretty nerfed, so despite the lack of difference, it probably is less effective just because it is APDS and APDS is bad right now.

Pretty much exactly this, they're programmed to have different damage models and interact differently with some kinds of armour, regardless of if they should have any difference in performance

So basically the statcards are incomplete?

Like with capped and uncapped APHE on russian Tanks the angle performance is displayed on the statcard.
Checking the armour of Tanks with ERA, hovering over said plates directly says that the value is higher against HEAT etc, however I've seen nothing like that for Sabot this far.

[Космонавт]

Originally posted by Levi:

Originally posted by Kay:

Pretty much exactly this, they're programmed to have different damage models and interact differently with some kinds of armour, regardless of if they should have any difference in performance

So basically the statcards are incomplete?

Like with capped and uncapped APHE on russian Tanks the angle performance is displayed on the statcard.
Checking the armour of Tanks with ERA, hovering over said plates directly says that the value is higher against HEAT etc, however I've seen nothing like that for Sabot this far.

Statcards on planes have false info, statcards on plane ammo have false info, statcards on tank ammo might as well

[Pec]

There isnt strictly much difference between the two the only guarantied one is that the shells are stabilised in flight differently as one uses fins like a dart while the other uses spin.

Apds quality varies the most as its been around longer as materials changed and tech improved so there is defiantly a discrepancy between the ww2 ones and the more modern stuff. As for whats happening in game its mostly just bad balancing(Stuff like aphe is allowed to far overperform while stuff like sabot and apcr are butchered).

More modern apds and apfsds should act mostly similar(apds would likelky have a tiny bit slower muzzle velocity) but one was modelled a lot less generously then the other

[mogami_99]

Other then Ace crews on fully trained slots. There is a difference on shot placement. The more accurate round will perform better simply because of this. Even when a dead on aim the crew can make it slightly off. These are listed in the modules and gun data.
And then it could simply be the modding of the round is off. (so never mind)

[Cha Cha Real Rough]

because APDS got nerfed into oblivion