F-4C 10.0

[PFD]

BR is quite questionable. The plane faces 10.7-11 almost every game at RB. Never 9.3 or even 10.0 exepting SU-25. Should i tell you why it can't fight mig 21 or tornado, why it cant dodje SU 25 rockets? Huge amount of bombs doesnt make any good at ARB.
The rating must be reconsidered.

[shipdesignerdude]

Originally posted by Weeblord69:

Originally posted by chicks99:

F4C with gunpod is slower than Mig21, the mig21 just has to pop some chaff off and the F4C can no longer sparrow it. After that, the mig21 can easily turn to dodge the M61 Vulcan of the F4C, and turn around and then catch up after a while. The superior Thrust-To-Weight ratio of the Mig21 allows it to just 180 and catch up again.

The Mig21 can completely nullify any advantage of the F4C which is namely its better gun and BVR capability. If the F4C had countermeasures, it can use its strength of sheer engine power to energy fight the Mig21, but because it has no flares, it is a death wish to turn fight.

If the F4C has no gunpod, it can speed away from the Mig21 after the Sparrow fails to track due to the presence of chaff. But, then you'll be wondering why "MUH TeAm SUcKs, HoW U nO kILl yet!!!"

or alternatively, the F4C would contribute absolutely nothing to the battle as one side steamrolls their enemies.

Before the addition of all aspect IR missiles, F4C can head on everyone, no problem. But now, you have to play very conservatively and cautiously if you don't want a 8k SL repair bill.

Now, you mentioned the F4E, perfect Mig21 killer. It has countermeasures and agile eagle upgrade, so it is NOT afraid at all to turn vertical and energy fight a Mig21, it can flare any R60s after all. Not to mention, the MUCH better radar and Aim7E2 which has some degree of chaff resistance compared to the F4C's radar and its Aim7D. The Aim7E2 can pull ridiculous manuevers with its extra 10gs for a total of 25g of pull making it nearly impossible for an opponent to dodge at HIGH ALTITUDE.

The F4E can use its strengths perfectly, good engine power, relatively good gun (vulcan got nerfed sadly), countermeasures, and good missiles against its near BR counterparts. Once it goes to 12.0 though, it is woefully outdated, not competitive in terms of BVR capability, turning, engine power, and overall flight performance. The F4EJ Kai, F4S, and Kurnass 2000 are basically just the F4E but better suited for 4th gen combat, but even they can't overcome the limitations of a outdated airframe in a 1v1.

why would you even carry gunpods? it is literally a meme build for ameridumbs who like "brrrt".

The gunpod will get more kills than the Aim-9Es will. Not carrying one is only making the situation worse for yourself.

[Kobes Helicopter]

Originally posted by Ihatetrainyards:

Originally posted by PFD:

Well exactly, the plain is not that bad when fighting smbd else, though no flares at 10.0 makes it 50:50

Originally posted by Kobes helicopter:

Only a idiot would say such a thing. IMAGINE playing a jet with NO FLARES and the best radar missiles WHICH NEEDS A GOOD RADAR to work BTW, Sounds like you need to actually play more USA before commenting.

Spoiled by US planes again... most planes don't get flares at 10.0

Most planes do... spoiled by your own hubris again. learn to play su25, a10, mig, av harrier.

[Dûkë]

Originally posted by Weeblord69:

If you face a mig-21 at high altitude with f4c in a headon you will win , he has to get behind you which is hard in high altitude, a single turn will bleed all energy.

This is a lie. If the Mig-21 gets a lock on you while it is at your altitude, your phantom is dead 100% of the time.

If you go head on, the missile hits you every time. If you turn your back you lose so much speed the mig-21 will catch up.

Go ahead, give it a try or just explain to me how I can dodge the missiles, because I have tried what works with other planes and the Phantom just can't pull it off.

[Ihatetrainyards]

Originally posted by chicks99:

Originally posted by Weeblord69:

uptiers are broken for every plane because of the compression unfortunately, my favorite F-4 variant the F-4E at 11.0 is unplayable because of the %99 uptiers. If you face a mig-21 at high altitude with f4c in a headon you will win , he has to get behind you which is hard in high altitude, a single turn will bleed all energy.

F4C with gunpod is slower than Mig21, the mig21 just has to pop some chaff off and the F4C can no longer sparrow it. After that, the mig21 can easily turn to dodge the M61 Vulcan of the F4C, and turn around and then catch up after a while. The superior Thrust-To-Weight ratio of the Mig21 allows it to just 180 and catch up again.

The Mig21 can completely nullify any advantage of the F4C which is namely its better gun and BVR capability. If the F4C had countermeasures, it can use its strength of sheer engine power to energy fight the Mig21, but because it has no flares, it is a death wish to turn fight.

If the F4C has no gunpod, it can speed away from the Mig21 after the Sparrow fails to track due to the presence of chaff. But, then you'll be wondering why "MUH TeAm SUcKs, HoW U nO kILl yet!!!"

or alternatively, the F4C would contribute absolutely nothing to the battle as one side steamrolls their enemies.

Before the addition of all aspect IR missiles, F4C can head on everyone, no problem. But now, you have to play very conservatively and cautiously if you don't want a 8k SL repair bill.

Now, you mentioned the F4E, perfect Mig21 killer. It has countermeasures and agile eagle upgrade, so it is NOT afraid at all to turn vertical and energy fight a Mig21, it can flare any R60s after all. Not to mention, the MUCH better radar and Aim7E2 which has some degree of chaff resistance compared to the F4C's radar and its Aim7D. The Aim7E2 can pull ridiculous manuevers with its extra 10gs for a total of 25g of pull making it nearly impossible for an opponent to dodge at HIGH ALTITUDE.

The F4E can use its strengths perfectly, good engine power, relatively good gun (vulcan got nerfed sadly), countermeasures, and good missiles against its near BR counterparts. Once it goes to 12.0 though, it is woefully outdated, not competitive in terms of BVR capability, turning, engine power, and overall flight performance. The F4EJ Kai, F4S, and Kurnass 2000 are basically just the F4E but better suited for 4th gen combat, but even they can't overcome the limitations of a outdated airframe in a 1v1.

Man, do you know what the "SIgnal: CW" does in the AIM-7?

[chicks99]

Originally posted by Ihatetrainyards:

Man, do you know what the "SIgnal: CW" does in the AIM-7?

Yes, Continous Wave. That doesn't change how reliant it is on radar. The Aim7D and Aim7F both are CW but clearly one is more susceptible to chaff.

[Ihatetrainyards]

Originally posted by chicks99:

Originally posted by Ihatetrainyards:

Man, do you know what the "SIgnal: CW" does in the AIM-7?

Yes, Continous Wave. That doesn't change how reliant it is on radar. The Aim7D and Aim7F both are CW but clearly one is more susceptible to chaff.

Both can be chaffed but one chaff isn't enough for either.

[chicks99]

Originally posted by Weeblord69:

why would you even carry gunpods? it is literally a meme build for ameridumbs who like "brrrt".

Maybe if you had ever played the F4C, you would know the missiles alone are not good enough to kill aware and attentive people. You would have to rely on people having 0 situational awareness to get kills that way, and obviously, that is not consistent at all. The gunpod offers a more consistent method of getting kills because you can't flare or chaff cannon rounds. Even if someone saw you coming, if they ran out of energy and now you in the F4C have enough speed to pull into them, they're dead no matter what they do.

And I did not say "gunpodS", i said "gunpod" without the "S". Bring one gunpod in the center line, which is all you need. It STILL will slow you down a lot, enough to be caught by Mig21s due to the extra mass and drag.

It is not until the F4J that bringing no gunpod makes sense because it has a PD radar with Aim7Fs and Aim9Hs, at 25g and 18g of pull respectively, which is enough to kill people even if they are aware. Not to mention, the AN/APG 59 on the F4J has helmet mounted display which allows you to select a specific enemy quickly.

[chicks99]

Originally posted by Ihatetrainyards:

Originally posted by chicks99:

Yes, Continous Wave. That doesn't change how reliant it is on radar. The Aim7D and Aim7F both are CW but clearly one is more susceptible to chaff.

Both can be chaffed but one chaff isn't enough for either.

It is much harder to chaff the Aim7F because it is usually launched by planes with pulse doppler radar. You'd have to put the chaff in between you and the radar for it to work effectively.

As for chaffing the F4C's radar, you just pop 3 or so times and now the radar takes offense and sends the Aim7D towards the chaff. It works effectively whether the chaff is behind, infront, to the side, whatever.

Not to mention, your opponents in the F4C such as the A10, F5Cs, A5Cs, Harriers, etc can carry way more than a few chaff.

[Ihatetrainyards]

Originally posted by chicks99:

Originally posted by Ihatetrainyards:

Both can be chaffed but one chaff isn't enough for either.

It is much harder to chaff the Aim7F because it is usually launched by planes with pulse doppler radar. You'd have to put the chaff in between you and the radar for it to work effectively.

As for chaffing the F4C's radar, you just pop 3 or so times and now the radar takes offense and sends the Aim7D towards the chaff. It works effectively whether the chaff is behind, infront, to the side, whatever.

Not to mention, your opponents in the F4C such as the A10, F5Cs, A5Cs, Harriers, etc can carry way more than a few chaff.

Man, the what "CW" in this game means is that it will keep tracking the plane even if the lock moves to chaff unless the guy knows what he is doing (most players don't even at 12.0)

[Futuristic Hexagon]

Originally posted by chicks99:

Originally posted by Weeblord69:

uptiers are broken for every plane because of the compression unfortunately, my favorite F-4 variant the F-4E at 11.0 is unplayable because of the %99 uptiers. If you face a mig-21 at high altitude with f4c in a headon you will win , he has to get behind you which is hard in high altitude, a single turn will bleed all energy.

F4C with gunpod is slower than Mig21, the mig21 just has to pop some chaff off and the F4C can no longer sparrow it. After that, the mig21 can easily turn to dodge the M61 Vulcan of the F4C, and turn around and then catch up after a while. The superior Thrust-To-Weight ratio of the Mig21 allows it to just 180 and catch up again.

The Mig21 can completely nullify any advantage of the F4C which is namely its better gun and BVR capability. If the F4C had countermeasures, it can use its strength of sheer engine power to energy fight the Mig21, but because it has no flares, it is a death wish to turn fight.

If the F4C has no gunpod, it can speed away from the Mig21 after the Sparrow fails to track due to the presence of chaff. But, then you'll be wondering why "MUH TeAm SUcKs, HoW U nO kILl yet!!!"

or alternatively, the F4C would contribute absolutely nothing to the battle as one side steamrolls their enemies.

Before the addition of all aspect IR missiles, F4C can head on everyone, no problem. But now, you have to play very conservatively and cautiously if you don't want a 8k SL repair bill.

Now, you mentioned the F4E, perfect Mig21 killer. It has countermeasures and agile eagle upgrade, so it is NOT afraid at all to turn vertical and energy fight a Mig21, it can flare any R60s after all. Not to mention, the MUCH better radar and Aim7E2 which has some degree of chaff resistance compared to the F4C's radar and its Aim7D. The Aim7E2 can pull ridiculous manuevers with its extra 10gs for a total of 25g of pull making it nearly impossible for an opponent to dodge at HIGH ALTITUDE.

The F4E can use its strengths perfectly, good engine power, relatively good gun (vulcan got nerfed sadly), countermeasures, and good missiles against its near BR counterparts. Once it goes to 12.0 though, it is woefully outdated, not competitive in terms of BVR capability, turning, engine power, and overall flight performance. The F4EJ Kai, F4S, and Kurnass 2000 are basically just the F4E but better suited for 4th gen combat, but even they can't overcome the limitations of a outdated airframe in a 1v1.

All MiG-21s under 10.0 don't have any CMs. This will see the S quite a lot, and on a harder downtier likely the PFM, F-13, and J-7II.

[chicks99]

Originally posted by Futuristic Hexagon:

All MiG-21s under 10.0 don't have any CMs. This will see the S quite a lot, and on a harder downtier likely the PFM, F-13, and J-7II.

True, they would be free kills, but it will often face migs with better missiles and CM, like the 10.0 Mig-21 SPS-K, 10.3 Mig 21 SMT, Mig21 MF, and 11.0 Mig21 BiS and its variants.

The 10.0 Mig-21 SPS-K is the same exact BR as the F4C, carries half the amount of missiles, but has two superior IR missiles (the R60 and R-13M1) and has countermeasure pod. Much more survivable if you ask me, but it's a premium...

TLDR: there are too many Mig21s

[Ihatetrainyards]

Originally posted by chicks99:

Originally posted by Futuristic Hexagon:

All MiG-21s under 10.0 don't have any CMs. This will see the S quite a lot, and on a harder downtier likely the PFM, F-13, and J-7II.

True, they would be free kills, but it will often face migs with better missiles and CM, like the 10.0 Mig-21 SPS-K, 10.3 Mig 21 SMT, Mig21 MF, and 11.0 Mig21 BiS and its variants.

The 10.0 Mig-21 SPS-K is the same exact BR as the F4C, carries half the amount of missiles, but has two superior IR missiles (the R60 and R-13M1) and has countermeasure pod. Much more survivable if you ask me, but it's a premium...

TLDR: there are too many Mig21s

SPS-K has to choose between CM's and a gun... guess which one most people pick since R-60's are practically useless against A-10's and Su-25s?

[WeebLord69]

Originally posted by chicks99:

Originally posted by Futuristic Hexagon:

All MiG-21s under 10.0 don't have any CMs. This will see the S quite a lot, and on a harder downtier likely the PFM, F-13, and J-7II.

True, they would be free kills, but it will often face migs with better missiles and CM, like the 10.0 Mig-21 SPS-K, 10.3 Mig 21 SMT, Mig21 MF, and 11.0 Mig21 BiS and its variants.

The 10.0 Mig-21 SPS-K is the same exact BR as the F4C, carries half the amount of missiles, but has two superior IR missiles (the R60 and R-13M1) and has countermeasure pod. Much more survivable if you ask me, but it's a premium...

TLDR: there are too many Mig21s

SPSK with CM is a free kill literally.

[Futuristic Hexagon]

Originally posted by Weeblord69:

Originally posted by chicks99:

True, they would be free kills, but it will often face migs with better missiles and CM, like the 10.0 Mig-21 SPS-K, 10.3 Mig 21 SMT, Mig21 MF, and 11.0 Mig21 BiS and its variants.

The 10.0 Mig-21 SPS-K is the same exact BR as the F4C, carries half the amount of missiles, but has two superior IR missiles (the R60 and R-13M1) and has countermeasure pod. Much more survivable if you ask me, but it's a premium...

TLDR: there are too many Mig21s

SPSK with CM is a free kill literally.

Without I would say makes them easier, then it becomes the 9.3 PFM with better missiles (they are, in raw performance the exact same plane, just from configurations of two different places and eras (USSR mid 60s vs. Germany late 80s/early 90s.)

The SPS-141 pod gives it 64 CMs total. The player keeps their speed up, not let themselves get lured into a manouver fight, and just does high speed hit and runs with their missiles then returns to base to rearm or leave the match while ocassionally dropping flares/Chaff when needed.

Usually survive the match and get 2 to 4 kills this way. The key is managing to surprise CM heavy planes and avoiding awkward situations best one can.