Rise of Naval Bots

[SpiralRazor]

So back awhile, i posted some vids on the naval botting epidemic, one of which was by a CC that received from input from one of the asian players who works with/develops the bots.. He said the reason a lot of CN/RU players use bots in the first place is because it not worth their time to play the game and grind SL via normal play. Better to get ONE premium ship and let it bot for most of the day; that way they are able to purchase the vehicles and stuff they actually want to play rather than wasting an inordinate amount of time farming.

Kind of ironic, right?

[Drakey Fenix]

These bots are not just in Naval battles. They exist in ground battles too. I have seen countless 2S38 premiums just sit in spawn the whole match with their turret spinning, and as soon as a plane or helicopter shows up, they start firing away. And when the target is dead, they go back to spinning their turret around. Honestly just annoying to see this.

[mogami_99]

Originalmente postado por Drakey Fenix:

These bots are not just in Naval battles. They exist in ground battles too. I have seen countless 2S38 premiums just sit in spawn the whole match with their turret spinning, and as soon as a plane or helicopter shows up, they start firing away. And when the target is dead, they go back to spinning their turret around. Honestly just annoying to see this.

Yes one thing these scripted things do well is AA. Whatever the crew quality is they use. It seems air targets are acquired by a different routine then ground/naval
By this I mean the script writer has to figure out the main and secondary guns but the AA are controlled by the normal AI guidance.

[FizzyElf]

Originalmente postado por Drakey Fenix:

These bots are not just in Naval battles. They exist in ground battles too. I have seen countless 2S38 premiums just sit in spawn the whole match with their turret spinning, and as soon as a plane or helicopter shows up, they start firing away. And when the target is dead, they go back to spinning their turret around. Honestly just annoying to see this.

Heh, yeah they were prototyping that about 8 months ago using the M19 and M42 duster, The 2S38 is definitely a good pick for a premium to use it on as the only competing vehicle is the Otomatic but you need top tier Italy to use that.

[FizzyElf]

Originalmente postado por mogami_99:

Originalmente postado por Drakey Fenix:

These bots are not just in Naval battles. They exist in ground battles too. I have seen countless 2S38 premiums just sit in spawn the whole match with their turret spinning, and as soon as a plane or helicopter shows up, they start firing away. And when the target is dead, they go back to spinning their turret around. Honestly just annoying to see this.

Yes one thing these scripted things do well is AA. Whatever the crew quality is they use. It seems air targets are acquired by a different routine then ground/naval
By this I mean the script writer has to figure out the main and secondary guns but the AA are controlled by the normal AI guidance.

In ground they are using the auto track system and combining it with the proxy fuse HE rounds so the AI doesn't need to be accurate, as soon as a target shows up, simply hitting near it will damage or kill it making the process highly effective for grinding out the russian tree or a getting SL farm going.

[FizzyElf]

Originalmente postado por FizzyElf:

Originalmente postado por mogami_99:

Yes one thing these scripted things do well is AA. Whatever the crew quality is they use. It seems air targets are acquired by a different routine then ground/naval
By this I mean the script writer has to figure out the main and secondary guns but the AA are controlled by the normal AI guidance.

In ground they are using the auto track system and combining it with the proxy fuse HE rounds so the AI doesn't need to be accurate, as soon as a target shows up, simply hitting near it will damage or kill it making the process highly effective for grinding out the russian tree or a getting SL farm going.

I should mention that this^ is why I thought gaijin didn't want to add premium SPAA's as it was way too easy to abuse it with a bot, all of the AA assistants already exist for players who want to cheat so it made sense to avoid adding in SPAA premiums and especially rank 6 ones but here we are

[Mephisto]

in naval it also doesn't help that the premium ships usually have better AA capabilities than their tech tree sister ships.

[Kunic]

Originalmente postado por Mephisto:

Originalmente postado por mogami_99:

Come on fren . Lets make a squad and test your hypothesis. I will play like a manic while you use your tactics and we can find out who scores the most and earns the most. Then we will have video of the results and settle any future disputes. You pick the ships and will use the same line up.

8 kills 1 assist 12000+ dmg 0 deaths, scharnhorst, minutes ago ....

but what's more annoying then the bots itself is when you get only bots in your team and the opposing team has multiple real players. seems to happen to me way to often.

Yea thats the major problem with the bot overall I think - overall the queue time for naval is already too bad so real heavy anti bot measures would probably make that worse.

We´ll just have to hope that fixing the economy does not break naval... :D

[SpiralRazor]

Originalmente postado por Kunicross:

Originalmente postado por Mephisto:

8 kills 1 assist 12000+ dmg 0 deaths, scharnhorst, minutes ago ....

but what's more annoying then the bots itself is when you get only bots in your team and the opposing team has multiple real players. seems to happen to me way to often.

Yea thats the major problem with the bot overall I think - overall the queue time for naval is already too bad so real heavy anti bot measures would probably make that worse.

We´ll just have to hope that fixing the economy does not break naval... :D

They already have gaijin made bots for naval. At least gaijins bots can cap points and move around the map. Its not ideal but id take it.

[mogami_99]

Originalmente postado por SpiralRazor:

Originalmente postado por Kunicross:

Yea thats the major problem with the bot overall I think - overall the queue time for naval is already too bad so real heavy anti bot measures would probably make that worse.

We´ll just have to hope that fixing the economy does not break naval... :D

They already have gaijin made bots for naval. At least gaijins bots can cap points and move around the map. Its not ideal but id take it.

Gaijin bots will never cap a point. That could result in the AI winning the battle. I pushed one into a cap once and it promptly sailed out. Bots cannot score points. No matter what they do they do not score points. They maintain a record of kills but you will notice there are no points.

[SpiralRazor]

Let me rephrase then, Gaijin bots * can * cap points, because they can traverse the map. It would be pretty simple to put in the code so that they stay in the cap zone long enough to control it. Points is nothing more than flipping a switch.

[mogami_99]

Originalmente postado por SpiralRazor:

Let me rephrase then, Gaijin bots * can * cap points, because they can traverse the map. It would be pretty simple to put in the code so that they stay in the cap zone long enough to control it. Points is nothing more than flipping a switch.

In naval that switch often leds to victory. It is quite common for only 1 cap to be taken. But generally the bots go no where near a cap. They have programmed patrol zones. Watch a genuine bot sometime. There could be a fierce fight in one location that lasts the entire battle. And both sides would have bots going in circles doing nothing away from the action.
I am not picking on the bots. They can and do kill things especially air.
In Blue Water you will not see very many. In coastal sometimes half of each team.
If you play maps enough you will learn where the bots live.

[FizzyElf]

Originalmente postado por SpiralRazor:

Let me rephrase then, Gaijin bots * can * cap points, because they can traverse the map. It would be pretty simple to put in the code so that they stay in the cap zone long enough to control it. Points is nothing more than flipping a switch.

Hmmm... Well theoretically you could do the same thing we already do with fully fake players in games like CSGO and Valarent via having zones of the screen setup as image to image info, if a game has a health bar you can program the bot to be able to see the hex code for the red on the health bar and tell it how long it should be per percentage and then tell the bot to heal itself at a random percentage value between 70% and 50%. In war thunder we would expand upon this and create a pathing database which is based on the mini-map, so if it see's and recognizes sunken city then a pre-written path through the map to a cap circle is chosen and it follows said path to the letter, however it could be defeated simply by the issue of a player bumping into the bot and knocking it off course. If you wanted to be very ambitious you would use the mini-map and then have the bot attempt to place its player icon on a cap circle icon, it would be very finicky and a buggy nightmare at first but it would yield the result of being able to get the bot to multiple caps and it would be easier than trying to code in course corrections for after the bot bumps into a player in spawn.

There may be other ways but this is the gist of what I would do if I need to make a more effective naval bot that can potentially win or assist heavily in winning matches.

[Mephisto]

started to grind japan over the last weekend, reached mid tier (4.7) - very fun on the bigger maps, when half the team on both sides are FRANK KNOX bots sitting in their spawns and shoot over the whole map (10km+) with AP. Can't really shoot back, as they are a) sitting behind islands and b) always bow in which makes them a really small target (still allows them to use 4/6 barrels) AND c) japanese low tier likes to lose it's bridge crew
best situation: spawned in and got ammo racked with the first hit from 12km away plunging through my deck less than 30 secs into the battle.

[SpiralRazor]

Originalmente postado por Mephisto:

started to grind japan over the last weekend, reached mid tier (4.7) - very fun on the bigger maps, when half the team on both sides are FRANK KNOX bots sitting in their spawns and shoot over the whole map (10km+) with AP. Can't really shoot back, as they are a) sitting behind islands and b) always bow in which makes them a really small target (still allows them to use 4/6 barrels) AND c) japanese low tier likes to lose it's bridge crew
best situation: spawned in and got ammo racked with the first hit from 12km away plunging through my deck less than 30 secs into the battle.

Fun times...the whole of the japanese tree is fairly underpowered until you hit battleships...the battleships are fairly decent. Torps in this game are generally pretty bad,; its the one thing that WoWS does better.

[Kiloton]

This is inevitable in any game with excessive grinding. When developers don't respect the player's time, the players eventually stop respecting the game. If there was an opportunity to buy any vehicle from the tech tree or unlock the entire thing instantly, these players probably would take that option. Since that isn't available because most free2play companies would rather keep you paying and grinding forever, the obvious alternative is automation. (Until you consider there are other tank games out there that aren't War Thunder or World of Invisible Tanks.)