Removing repair costs? Here's my say.

[JustE1ite]

For someone who has played only 650+ hours on the game and has bought a lot of premiums because I'm not responsible when it comes to using my own money I say that repair costs play a big role/factor in how the game and its economy functions and I don't ever see it being removed. The best they could probably do is lower the repair cost which could take a week or two. You may ask how will removing repair costs make the game unbalanced or a bigger problem than it is at its current state? Well repair costs helps make the game fair if you do better in the round the less the repair cost will impact you but for example if you go into 10.3-11.7 air rb there's always that one person or bot that crashes right after they takeoff and that will impact them because they didn't receive any silver lions that would cover the repair cost. It also helps make it so you don't just get a huge amount of silver lions and beat the game in a month or bit longer. A lot of online games have a heal/repair system. Also think before you bash a corporation about removing a important part of their game because your idiocy will come back to bite you in the ass.

[Soyak Striker]

Originally posted by Levi:

Originally posted by higuita:

Then, if you want to play by your rules, you should use real money to support your game choices? why would a free game give you everything you want and get nothing in return?

Simple: Time you can play during a day = Limited
Time to progress in F2P game without premium time (not paying money) = Long
Time to progress with premium = Shorter

Thus = Getting more value out of your time spent in the game if you spend money.

*Time to progress free = -10k SL
Time to progress with premium = -5k SL

I fixed it for you.

[higuita]

Originally posted by 『Sinner』:

Let's say I flipped the table on you. What if you woke up tomorrow and low tier vehicles were expensive, while top tier vehicles were cheap suddenly. To add to that, low tier vehicles suddenly had week long repair times, while top tier had minutes to hours. Would you find that fair? Would you want to pay up in that case?

Sure, i would play top tier games more and do the low tier ones once a week

Notice that i'm not saying that things are perfect, far from it, i would change many things... but i'm not the one paying the developers, servers and everything else.

Yes, top tier repairs are expensive, but they have ways to workaround that. you should either use that, or use your money to support the game

- Premium vehicle sales

Most people i know, do not buy premium

- Premium time sales

This is what usually people pay... but they only pay to get either to speed up research or to get more money to repair. If the repair is cheap, top tier do not need anymore research, you end have no reason to buy this

- GE sales (which may be used to the two above, or to tree premium sales)

This can be used to buy SL and so the repair ... again, without the repair, why would you need the GE? for the crew? what then when it is maxed out?

- The Gajin marketplace, which has exclusive control over

Again, most people do not use it, so the low price can't be offset by the volume, like in TF2 or CSGO

= Marketplace premiums and non-premiums (with some starting at $50, and going for $2,000 for the rarest, typically $100-$500 on average for sought after.

Still premium, see the same response as above ... having some whales using this is not enough to pay for everything

= Camos and stickers

After adding some cammo to a top tier tank, why would you buy it again?
IMHO, they could add more objects and color tracers, but what most people buy is just the cammo... and for some tanks it is a huge difference, like in a ASU-57, so they can't expand that too much

= Gajin crates and exclusive control of keys (you cannot find keys outside of buying them)
= Items and other misc items during crafting events.

Again, most people do not use those. If those were a success, the game would be full of those, like in other games where they have more success

Sorry, but most of those are residual gains, what sustains the game is the GE/premium time and that is mostly because of the race to top tier and repair costs. It is not perfect, but much better than "premium ammo" and "up tier guarantee for some premium" like in WoT

You can sell premium time and vehicles to help skip the grind. You should not make premium time and vehicles the only way to actually progress.

[CrOnA]

Originally posted by shipdesignerdude:

Originally posted by 『Sinner』:

I would argue that there isn't anything stopping them with the current system. I'm not sure why someone would bot besides the "underground profile trade," but I would again argue that it is on Gajin to properly find and eliminate bot profiles. We shouldn't as players and consumers accept sweeping economy nerfs because of bot accounts.

Imagine something like this. Let's say in CSGO that the AWP was a favorite weapon among cheaters because, well, it's the awp and they're probably using walls/aim assist. Would Valve (I think that's who owns CSGO, no?) decide to increase the cost of the AWP instead of increasing their watch dog system?

The point is that changes directed towards a minority group, a malicious group at that, affect the overall majority of players in War Thunders case. I personally will not take it as an excuse.

I did not say the economy nerfs were because of bots. I said repair costs were necessary because of botting, not the economy. And while I think the economy isn't as bad as a lot of people are making it out to be, it is still entirely on Gajin how the economy is.

they really arent lol remove repair costs still need to Spend a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of SL to actually get a tank and crew and max the crew bots probably wont go past 3.0 br lol even if that except for in naval

[𝒞𝒶𝓈𝓊𝒶𝓁 Sinner]

Originally posted by FamilyOwl✠:

Which vehicle may that be?

The B-29 was a good overall example for a while, but its price has gone down noticeably. Though it is still something like 16k in RB and 21k Sim (I'm going off Wiki stats, I do not have WT to check.)

Most of this mainly applies to sim, but still pricey in RB depending on the round.
- F-16A/ADF
- F-14
- Arado C-3 (fun to speed around with, but only really good for revenge cas)
- Me 163

I'm gonna stop there, the wiki is a pain in the ass to use. The overall point is to allow players to be players. There are plenty of other ways Gajin already monetizes, I have already gone on record saying I would be fine with slashed RP/SL rates if it meant repair costs would go away

[Chaplain Kazimir]

Originally posted by JustE1ite:

For someone who has played only 650+ hours on the game and has bought a lot of premiums because I'm not responsible when it comes to using my own money I say that repair costs play a big role/factor in how the game and its economy functions and I don't ever see it being removed. The best they could probably do is lower the repair cost which could take a week or two. You may ask how will removing repair costs make the game unbalanced or a bigger problem than it is at its current state? Well repair costs helps make the game fair if you do better in the round the less the repair cost will impact you but for example if you go into 10.3-11.7 air rb there's always that one person or bot that crashes right after they takeoff and that will impact them because they didn't receive any silver lions that would cover the repair cost. It also helps make it so you don't just get a huge amount of silver lions and beat the game in a month or bit longer. A lot of online games have a heal/repair system. Also think before you bash a corporation about removing a important part of their game because your idiocy will come back to bite you in the ass.

beat the game in a month? not only are you already dealing with research costs that can have you grinding for weeks. all Repair costs have done in my 700+ hours of play has made me leave games before using my whole lineup because taking more vehicles in simply wasent worth the potential repair costs, leaving my team with likely more than one player down because we have to factor in that trying to play the game already puts us in the Red economically. It only gets worse the deeper you get into the tech trees as the costs increase while the multipliers dont keep up; so instead of enjoying the tanks you spent months if not years grinding for, you now need to go back to the previous tanks to even keep your SL count positive.

[Chaplain Kazimir]

Originally posted by higuita:

high repair cost not only promote people to pay real money, but also promote people to play lower tiers, so the game ends being more balanced and not having 80% of the players doing BR 9+ battles and having a wasteland of few new players in lower tiers

damn didint realize we had to break the economy to make me go enjoy how the lower BRs play. i would have never revisted the P-51 or any lower BR if they didint decide to rob me blind

[Chaplain Kazimir]

Originally posted by shipdesignerdude:

Originally posted by 『Sinner』:

I feel like a lot of this argument comes down to "We need to penalize players into being good! Git gud!" Which is messaging Gajin has tried to recreate in their recent messages.

I don't see how removing repair costs doesn't create an incentive to still learn how to play. Gajin and supporters talk about repair costs to penalize bad players, but the grind is already long enough that most players are probably experienced in the mechanics they are entering into, at least top tier wise. That is unless they buy their way to the top, which is entirely on Gajin for going against their word of never adding top tier premiums, but you're not gonna criticize that one are you?

Dying by itself is already an incentive to get better. If you crash at the start, die in the initial missile wave, or die before you can get points, you already are being punished. You did nothing, you probably won't get more than a few SL/RP. You do not need to slap an SL remove penalty on top of that.

We ask for removing SL repair costs for this. I can play any vehicle I have, any time I want, as many times as I want, without having to worry about if me having fun and not sweating will bankrupt me. I will happily take the reduced SL/RP modifiers if repair costs went away entirely if it meant I can pick any country, any vehicle, any mode, and just play it without having to remember that if I die for a few rounds (which is to be expected in a PVP title), that I might lose a noticeable amount of SL.

Botting has become an issue in recent years, repair costs are a way of not encouraging those accounts.

I don't think "penalize players into being good" is the right choice of words. Having repair costs on vehicles just teaches players to not yolo it and to play more cautiously, and to pick their fights. I personally have become a better player by playing vehicles with relative high repair costs.

Death in inevitable in these games, and there are many situations that will require a sacrifice for the chance at winning a match. When you penalize players for dying and playing even at an average level, all you do is further disincentivize people from being willing to be the one to take the heat so that another person can end the threat. to some degree it even encourages others to rat out their allies in order to get the kill via pushing them out of cover or other such methods.

[Soyak Striker]

Originally posted by Chaplain Kazimir:

Originally posted by shipdesignerdude:

Botting has become an issue in recent years, repair costs are a way of not encouraging those accounts.

I don't think "penalize players into being good" is the right choice of words. Having repair costs on vehicles just teaches players to not yolo it and to play more cautiously, and to pick their fights. I personally have become a better player by playing vehicles with relative high repair costs.

Death in inevitable in these games, and there are many situations that will require a sacrifice for the chance at winning a match. When you penalize players for dying and playing even at an average level, all you do is further disincentivize people from being willing to be the one to take the heat so that another person can end the threat. to some degree it even encourages others to rat out their allies in order to get the kill via pushing them out of cover or other such methods.

I never thought about that until now. I've only had a couple people do it, but people have rammed me while I was in cover. I'm wondering if they were trying to get me shot now.

[Chaplain Kazimir]

Originally posted by higuita:

Originally posted by Soyak Striker:

Because I don't want to play another vehicle. I don't want to play a faction I don't like. I want to play that fancy new tank they're showing off. I want to play a jet I actually came to love in the cold war. I want to progress the tech tree in the country of my choice.

Then, if you want to play by your rules, you should use real money to support your game choices? why would a free game give you everything you want and get nothing in return?

Lets take two different games to show why people dont wanna give them their money. Lets compare Deep Rock Galactic and War thunder here. Deep rock does require a pay to play system, but has also realeased a lot of comestic DLC alongside season passes and the like. however, i struggle to find a player who doesent want to support them by buying these DLC because the devs respect their time and dont try to nickle and dime them by selling them the game in piece meal. im sure they could have made the entry cost entirely optional and yet people would still buy it as a method of support.

Lets compare this to War Thunder where the game itself is F2P on the surface, but has entire systems in play that not only discourage you from playing the game, but ask you spend money to do so like your asking them too. because the game itself and the devs clearly dont respect their players time or the players themselves, the players are less likely to want to support them because of how they are treated.

[Chaplain Kazimir]

Originally posted by Soyak Striker:

Originally posted by Chaplain Kazimir:

Death in inevitable in these games, and there are many situations that will require a sacrifice for the chance at winning a match. When you penalize players for dying and playing even at an average level, all you do is further disincentivize people from being willing to be the one to take the heat so that another person can end the threat. to some degree it even encourages others to rat out their allies in order to get the kill via pushing them out of cover or other such methods.

I never thought about that until now. I've only had a couple people do it, but people have rammed me while I was in cover. I'm wondering if they were trying to get me shot now.

They almost entierely were trying to. Ive had games where ive been in a tiger and gotten left out to dry because people are too afraid to lose their vehicle because of these reapair costs. ive also seen people ram or push others into the line of fire just to bait the shot. While they arent too common, they exist in abundance at mid BR where you really begin to feel those reapair costs.

[Soyak Striker]

Originally posted by Chaplain Kazimir:

Originally posted by higuita:

Then, if you want to play by your rules, you should use real money to support your game choices? why would a free game give you everything you want and get nothing in return?

Lets take two different games to show why people dont wanna give them their money. Lets compare Deep Rock Galactic and War thunder here. Deep rock does require a pay to play system, but has also realeased a lot of comestic DLC alongside season passes and the like. however, i struggle to find a player who doesent want to support them by buying these DLC because the devs respect their time and dont try to nickle and dime them by selling them the game in piece meal. im sure they could have made the entry cost entirely optional and yet people would still buy it as a method of support.

Lets compare this to War Thunder where the game itself is F2P on the surface, but has entire systems in play that not only discourage you from playing the game, but ask you spend money to do so like your asking them too. because the game itself and the devs clearly dont respect their players time or the players themselves, the players are less likely to want to support them because of how they are treated.

I think he wants us to microtransaction every single vehicle.

[Chaplain Kazimir]

Originally posted by Soyak Striker:

Originally posted by Chaplain Kazimir:

Lets take two different games to show why people dont wanna give them their money. Lets compare Deep Rock Galactic and War thunder here. Deep rock does require a pay to play system, but has also realeased a lot of comestic DLC alongside season passes and the like. however, i struggle to find a player who doesent want to support them by buying these DLC because the devs respect their time and dont try to nickle and dime them by selling them the game in piece meal. im sure they could have made the entry cost entirely optional and yet people would still buy it as a method of support.

Lets compare this to War Thunder where the game itself is F2P on the surface, but has entire systems in play that not only discourage you from playing the game, but ask you spend money to do so like your asking them too. because the game itself and the devs clearly dont respect their players time or the players themselves, the players are less likely to want to support them because of how they are treated.

I think he wants us to microtransaction every single vehicle.

TFW he would create a microtransaction system worse than what people believe Star Citizen is like

[pt4300]

Repair cost is still a good way to control the economy balance. However the research and sl nerf is too crazy to a point that people literally not gaining enough reward to repair their vehicles even if they are paying money on premium vehicles and premium account. So if gaijin could revert the repair cost and sl boost back to 2019 or earlier. I believe the game would be a much healthier state than now.

[Majestic Blue Falcon]

Originally posted by JustE1ite:

It also helps make it so you don't just get a huge amount of silver lions and beat the game in a month or bit longer.

War Thunder doesn't have a true end-game. Gaijin could stop adding vehicles and the game still wouldn't have a true end-game. That's how PvP games work. The final boss is always some ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ on the other team, or sometimes on your team, and the story comes from the adventure you went on to go find said ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

[higuita]

notice that i totally agree with you, the top tier economy should be revised, right now i too think it is too high. But i also do not have the numbers on how much money they make now vs when they did in 2019. Top tiers should be hard, but got a little out of hand. But cheap repair will probably drain the company of the vital money to keep things working. War thunder have an active development, so it needs more money than probably simple cosmetic sells can support