Give bombers their gunners back

[The Grand Wizard]

Seriously what the ♥♥♥♥, why are bombers even in the game at this point? Just for the meme 5t bomb?
300m for gunners to start shooting and they can't even hit anything with max level? Is the plane crewed by blind people?
I have seem japanese fighter planes more durable than the joke we call bombers
3 bombers flying in formation and a lone fighter manages to take 2 down in one pass, what a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ joke
How am i supposed to unlock modifications when i'm basically a free kill, i have the engine researched halfway (from years ago) and i haven't managed to make any significant progress for 1,5k rp, holy ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ♥♥♥♥

i have uninstalled the game again for the millionth time, ♥♥♥♥ the monkeys making these dumb decisions, clowns

[76561199341125672]

It seems that Gaijin has nerfed gunners. Okay then, Gaijin. You disable my gunners and I stop playing your bombers. That is symmetrical. Is that what you want?

[Root]

I imagine that the gunners are taking lunch as I try to dodge enemy tracers. Then all of sudden he's back from break and starts firing. I don't care if he misses, at least show the plane's gunners doing something. It's annoying to see the guns doing nothing.

[76561199341125672]

TANDY-1000EX の投稿を引用：

You need to start learning to shoot from the turrets manually, and make some basic evasive maneuvers with the keyboard simultaneously.

Imagine you are flying low, for purpose, with a Ju-87, while a fighter is chasing you. You are dodging between trees and other obstacles, trying to make yourself a difficult target. You expect that your gunner soon starts shooting the chaser. But what if he does not, will you simply take over the gunner's control? If you do, what probably happens next?

[Warlock]

Dodging / jinking ability of course varies hugely by Bomber type. Some can evade fire for a while at least. Fly out the Ki-21

I think the key is to follow the tracer, ignore the HUD. The tracking circle kind of trains your eye to look in the wrong place.

Gunner AI needs a complete overhaul. Have them open fire between 400-800 depending on crew training, with a 1% accuracy that improves with training and proximity, but never gets over maybe 3% at max crew point blank.

[Commander359]

I love how many people here are trying to defend the fighter jock seal clubbing of all bomber aircraft by telling you to use manual aim while conveniently forgetting the massive drawbacks of doing so.

1. you cant use evasive maneuvers while manually using the guns. It literally turns you into a flying "Shoot Me" sign when you use them.
2. With bomber health nerfs you cant outgun a fight now matter how many guns you have, if an XP-50 hits you twice with a 20 mm (and it will hit first since it out-ranges the guns even on Manuel by 500 meters) your plane will be cut in half no matter what your flying.
3. Manual gunner aim suffers from gun convergence, often making the guns even shorter range than they should be, and at no point should EVERY gunner on the plane be aiming in the same spot anyway as it VASTLY lowers the chances of hitting a target.

Defensive gunners SHOULD have decent engagement range (1200-1500 meters at least), but they should have poor accuracy to compensate. This would allow for the bomber pilots to focus on their ACTUAL jobs of keeping the crew alive through evasive maneuvers and/or bombing ground targets while the gunners do their jobs defending the plane. Different gunners should also independently track aircraft so that larger crews of experienced gunners can actually be a credible threat.

But of course fighter jocks are going to complain. Their flying a single seat aircraft whose job solely consists of pointing the nose of the plane at the nearest enemy and firing. They dont have to worry about micromanaging a flying fortress with 6 different gunners that maneuvers like a elephant with asthma. In reality, fighters should be punished heavily if they approach a bomber from its gunners sight lines, they SHOULD be forced to actually think and plan out an approach from where the bombers defenses are weakest, and I am sick and tired of geijin nerfing and ignoring bomber gameplay because they have a personal stigma against anything that isnt a direct PVP gameplay style.

[EpicFrostchaserSWF]

Bomber Guy here, I am for AI gunners getting more engagement range, I think 0.75 Miles (Aprox 1200m) at max level would suffice, though I do man the gunners myself in most situations & occasionally troll bomber hunters by making them pay for killing me, I still think that bombers need some major buffing to there defenses & vitality.

[jpc1918]

Commander359 の投稿を引用：

I love how many people here are trying to defend the fighter jock seal clubbing of all bomber aircraft by telling you to use manual aim while conveniently forgetting the massive drawbacks of doing so.

1. you cant use evasive maneuvers while manually using the guns. It literally turns you into a flying "Shoot Me" sign when you use them.
2. With bomber health nerfs you cant outgun a fight now matter how many guns you have, if an XP-50 hits you twice with a 20 mm (and it will hit first since it out-ranges the guns even on Manuel by 500 meters) your plane will be cut in half no matter what your flying.
3. Manual gunner aim suffers from gun convergence, often making the guns even shorter range than they should be, and at no point should EVERY gunner on the plane be aiming in the same spot anyway as it VASTLY lowers the chances of hitting a target.

Defensive gunners SHOULD have decent engagement range (1200-1500 meters at least), but they should have poor accuracy to compensate. This would allow for the bomber pilots to focus on their ACTUAL jobs of keeping the crew alive through evasive maneuvers and/or bombing ground targets while the gunners do their jobs defending the plane. Different gunners should also independently track aircraft so that larger crews of experienced gunners can actually be a credible threat.

But of course fighter jocks are going to complain. Their flying a single seat aircraft whose job solely consists of pointing the nose of the plane at the nearest enemy and firing. They dont have to worry about micromanaging a flying fortress with 6 different gunners that maneuvers like a elephant with asthma. In reality, fighters should be punished heavily if they approach a bomber from its gunners sight lines, they SHOULD be forced to actually think and plan out an approach from where the bombers defenses are weakest, and I am sick and tired of geijin nerfing and ignoring bomber gameplay because they have a personal stigma against anything that isnt a direct PVP gameplay style.

Shush, a single 12.7mm bullet ripping massive armored bombers to atoms is totally normal, balanced and historically accurate. Now please ignore the fighters and CAS that shrug off high caliber HE shells like you're firing spitballs

All of this ♥♥♥♥ got nerfed because some fighter cucks were angry that they might have to use a single braincell and some other tards were having fun flying low tier bombers into massive fights for fun. Meanwhile i remember the horrors of having to dodge competent AI gunners and aiming for the engines to get a kill

[Warlock]

Commander359 の投稿を引用：

1. you cant use evasive maneuvers while manually using the guns. It literally turns you into a flying "Shoot Me" sign when you use them.

you actually can use evasive maneuvers. you have to uncheck the autopilot-in-bomber-view box, in the gameplay settings.

true, a few good cannon hits will blow the wing off most planes. Situational Awareness will help you avoid many, but never all, of such situations. you have to be very cautious with a Bomber in WT, obviously. If enemy fighter pilots are harassing you for refusing to dogfight them, you're on the right track. Return to base, repair, and end the match if you're the last plane.

[The Grand Wizard]

Chusma con Armas の投稿を引用：

This game monetization is based on frustation.

The game is full of cheaters, probably Gaijing employes.

So you think that you can finish your frustation buying advanced equipment, but it will not balance a thing. You will keep being frustated until you leave or spent a ton of money in the game.

Just move on to other game and you will never come back.

Unironically probably true

Commander359 の投稿を引用：

I love how many people here are trying to defend the fighter jock seal clubbing of all bomber aircraft by telling you to use manual aim while conveniently forgetting the massive drawbacks of doing so.

1. you cant use evasive maneuvers while manually using the guns. It literally turns you into a flying "Shoot Me" sign when you use them.
2. With bomber health nerfs you cant outgun a fight now matter how many guns you have, if an XP-50 hits you twice with a 20 mm (and it will hit first since it out-ranges the guns even on Manuel by 500 meters) your plane will be cut in half no matter what your flying.
3. Manual gunner aim suffers from gun convergence, often making the guns even shorter range than they should be, and at no point should EVERY gunner on the plane be aiming in the same spot anyway as it VASTLY lowers the chances of hitting a target.

Defensive gunners SHOULD have decent engagement range (1200-1500 meters at least), but they should have poor accuracy to compensate. This would allow for the bomber pilots to focus on their ACTUAL jobs of keeping the crew alive through evasive maneuvers and/or bombing ground targets while the gunners do their jobs defending the plane. Different gunners should also independently track aircraft so that larger crews of experienced gunners can actually be a credible threat.

But of course fighter jocks are going to complain. Their flying a single seat aircraft whose job solely consists of pointing the nose of the plane at the nearest enemy and firing. They dont have to worry about micromanaging a flying fortress with 6 different gunners that maneuvers like a elephant with asthma. In reality, fighters should be punished heavily if they approach a bomber from its gunners sight lines, they SHOULD be forced to actually think and plan out an approach from where the bombers defenses are weakest, and I am sick and tired of geijin nerfing and ignoring bomber gameplay because they have a personal stigma against anything that isnt a direct PVP gameplay style.

I remember when bombers were "op", i used to get killed in my single engine fighter when approaching from behind (but not always) and i remember going to the forums and looking for a guide on gunners deadzones and how to approach bombers
Now everything needs to be braindead, god forbids some loser has to think his approach rather than sit on tail and spam mg

[HOBO ACTUAL]

Sirus の投稿を引用：

Are you allergic to shooting the guns yourself? What is your contribution to the engagement? Are you sleeping or something?

I guess the most effort anyone can expect from you people is pressing spacebar.

I actually enjoyed when the ai gunners were good made it a challenge to get near bombers now they just suck

[DrunkenTee]

HOBO ACTUAL の投稿を引用：

Sirus の投稿を引用：

Are you allergic to shooting the guns yourself? What is your contribution to the engagement? Are you sleeping or something?

I guess the most effort anyone can expect from you people is pressing spacebar.

I actually enjoyed when the ai gunners were good made it a challenge to get near bombers now they just suck

I mean what do you really do but fly in a straight line for 20 minutes with a single turn back to base? Good players with 2 hands will still be hard to approach in bombers, but if you are handless you will definitely be an easy target.

[French Cat]

DrunkenTee の投稿を引用：

HOBO ACTUAL の投稿を引用：

I actually enjoyed when the ai gunners were good made it a challenge to get near bombers now they just suck

I mean what do you really do but fly in a straight line for 20 minutes with a single turn back to base? Good players with 2 hands will still be hard to approach in bombers, but if you are handless you will definitely be an easy target.

Unless you're playing Germany, any plane looking at you would make your tail fall off.

[DrunkenTee]

French Cat の投稿を引用：

DrunkenTee の投稿を引用：

I mean what do you really do but fly in a straight line for 20 minutes with a single turn back to base? Good players with 2 hands will still be hard to approach in bombers, but if you are handless you will definitely be an easy target.

Unless you're playing Germany, any plane looking at you would make your tail fall off.

I've flown B-17s back to base that should have crashed 30 minutes ago.

[SomeStoner]

The Grand Wizard の投稿を引用：

Seriously what the ♥♥♥♥, why are bombers even in the game at this point? Just for the meme 5t bomb?
300m for gunners to start shooting and they can't even hit anything with max level? Is the plane crewed by blind people?
I have seem japanese fighter planes more durable than the joke we call bombers
3 bombers flying in formation and a lone fighter manages to take 2 down in one pass, what a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ joke
How am i supposed to unlock modifications when i'm basically a free kill, i have the engine researched halfway (from years ago) and i haven't managed to make any significant progress for 1,5k rp, holy ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ♥♥♥♥

i have uninstalled the game again for the millionth time, ♥♥♥♥ the monkeys making these dumb decisions, clowns

why is it every time I look at steam discussions I see you crying in here?

[๖ۣۜSIcario]

the gunner shouldnt knock out or burn fighter too easily. They should aim wing or tail. Bring back old gunner ffs