WAR THUNDER - THIS GAME IS PAY TO WIN

[Antiriad]

The first thing any player should realise is that this game is pay to win. Don't let anyone else say otherwise, forget what the reviews say, this is a pay to win game. The interface and game mechanics do a very clever job at hiding this and trying to confuse you, but after 114 hours of game time, I now have come firmly to the conclusion this is a pay to win game. Those sneaky folks at Gaijin will not advertise this.

What proof of this is there? Well the easiest example is to say that the lower level tanks are pretty accessible but soon you realise this is only to make sure that the premium players have a steady flow of cannon fodder. Even after you upgrade your tank to a higher level, you are simply put in with other tanks that have paid upgrades and no matter how well you play unless you pay (or do literally hours and hours of grinding) you will find yourself with a slower tank, less gunnery and more visibility compared to other players. Visibility matters in war thunder because premium players can get camouflage and non premium cannot. But is it WAY worse than that - camouflaged players are actually graphically INVISIBLE. That's right. INVISIBLE, not just harder to see, but the game actually makes the tank DISAPPEAR from the non premium screen. Not matter what resolution your monitor, no matter how hard you squint into the distance, you will not see a premium player before they can see you and voila you are zapped first and die.

this is just one example,; there are loads of others. For example, every tank upgrade essentially gives you a slower, less powerful tank until you upgrade it. And upgrading it requires, guess what, more currency, i.e. cash, unless you go for the long hours of grinding options. Your slow new tank will be put against the fast, upgraded premium players and there is no chance you will win. Unless you pay for something, then you will be doomed to be blasted and cannon fodder for others, maybe achieving a mid rank score in a battle at best, but never ever being able to come out on top.

Why is my opponents tank faster than mine? Because they paid and you didnt.
Why is my opponents tank got a more powerful gun than mine. Because they paid and you didnt.
Why is my opponent LITERALLY INVISIBLE and I'm not. Because they paid and you didnt.
etc.
This applies to crew as well by the way, another nice little infinite money pit you can put your cash into to improve your teams ability.

So payment is needed to win. But is it also needed to buy and play with the vehicles on display. Improving your battle rank is a linear progression, but lateral vehicles exploration across the countries and vehicle types also costs money (both real and in-game currency). Its like a giant toy shop - all the toys are there, but to play with them all means you have to buy them all.

So bear that in mind before dipping into this game. If you want the 'free to play' experience, it will be many, many hours (hundreds) before your crews and tanks are good enough to compete even at the lower tiers. Without paying, I estimate probably thousands of hours will be needed of grinding to have some capability to win at the higher tiers.

At least know what you are getting into. I did my own calculation and estimate that to unlock a battle rank 11 vehicles with fully trained crew and all modifications would cost somewhere between £300-400 Euros, or the alternative would be probably something like 10,000 hours of playtime. The only 'free to play experience' is probably at battle rank 1, which is the lowest level using early WWII tanks that are pretty shonky, but a good blast I suppose (having now played 114 hours of it anyways).

So don't be deceived. It's pay to win. End of. Some fun to be had along the way though.

[Antiriad]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Washell:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Tom:

No it's not, it's pay to progress

If it takes, say, 5 years to get to the same point as someone who paid for the shortcuts, it may technically be pay to progress. But 5 years down the road they'll have added bigger and stronger things to keep the paying crowd happy and most importantly, spending. Then you need another 5 years to catch up to their current state. And so on, and so on.

This means you'll never catch up, and the only way to get into a place where you can win, is to pay. At best, you can catch up for "free" by devoting almost every waking hour to the game.

yep exactly - and that's the whole point. Go and grind but oop! guess what, we changed the goalposts. Stopped playing clash of clans for exactly the same reason.

Trying to explain that directly on the War Thunder game forum got me banned from there. They don't like people talking about this in public it seems.

Every level up you get, means you have an unmodified tank which means you need to grind away as cannon fodder until you get the mods to make your tank comptetive. Engine, transmission, the cannon movement speed, turning speed. They call it a lack of 'skill' but is not. Its a like a race between a honda civic versus a ferrari.

there is also this thing about invisibility - newbies don't realise their enemies are actually quite literally invisible to them because of the levelling up of the crew. Literally doesn't render the opponent until you get close, by which time you are already shot. Camouflage you can't get unless you pay.

So its pay to win. Gaijin should be honest about that.

[Antiriad]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Tom:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Washell:

If it takes, say, 5 years to get to the same point as someone who paid for the shortcuts, it may technically be pay to progress. But 5 years down the road they'll have added bigger and stronger things to keep the paying crowd happy and most importantly, spending. Then you need another 5 years to catch up to their current state. And so on, and so on.

This means you'll never catch up, and the only way to get into a place where you can win, is to pay. At best, you can catch up for "free" by devoting almost every waking hour to the game.

it would take you five years as you free to play if you didn't even get one kill a game, it's actually a couple months if you play well, also you don't even need to get to the top to have fun, as you won't be facing the latest weapons in your soviet T-34, you only need to pay to progress way faster if you want the latest aircraft, which even then aren't the most fun

it is still fun at the lower battle ranks. At least at level 1 you can get all the mods fairly quickly, get the crew up some levels and at least be competitive in matches. At that level it's probably one of the best free to play out there, but obviously only WWII era tanks or planes.

[Tom]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Antiriad:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Washell:

If it takes, say, 5 years to get to the same point as someone who paid for the shortcuts, it may technically be pay to progress. But 5 years down the road they'll have added bigger and stronger things to keep the paying crowd happy and most importantly, spending. Then you need another 5 years to catch up to their current state. And so on, and so on.

This means you'll never catch up, and the only way to get into a place where you can win, is to pay. At best, you can catch up for "free" by devoting almost every waking hour to the game.

yep exactly - and that's the whole point. Go and grind but oop! guess what, we changed the goalposts. Stopped playing clash of clans for exactly the same reason.

Trying to explain that directly on the War Thunder game forum got me banned from there. They don't like people talking about this in public it seems.

Every level up you get, means you have an unmodified tank which means you need to grind away as cannon fodder until you get the mods to make your tank comptetive. Engine, transmission, the cannon movement speed, turning speed. They call it a lack of 'skill' but is not. Its a like a race between a honda civic versus a ferrari.

there is also this thing about invisibility - newbies don't realise their enemies are actually quite literally invisible to them because of the levelling up of the crew. Literally doesn't render the opponent until you get close, by which time you are already shot. Camouflage you can't get unless you pay.

So its pay to win. Gaijin should be honest about that.

fun fact, ennemies becomming invisible isn't due to crew skills but actually due to an anti cheat bug that they've been trying to patch for years, it's not a crew skill thing

[Antiriad]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Tom:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Antiriad:

yep exactly - and that's the whole point. Go and grind but oop! guess what, we changed the goalposts. Stopped playing clash of clans for exactly the same reason.

Trying to explain that directly on the War Thunder game forum got me banned from there. They don't like people talking about this in public it seems.

Every level up you get, means you have an unmodified tank which means you need to grind away as cannon fodder until you get the mods to make your tank comptetive. Engine, transmission, the cannon movement speed, turning speed. They call it a lack of 'skill' but is not. Its a like a race between a honda civic versus a ferrari.

there is also this thing about invisibility - newbies don't realise their enemies are actually quite literally invisible to them because of the levelling up of the crew. Literally doesn't render the opponent until you get close, by which time you are already shot. Camouflage you can't get unless you pay.

So its pay to win. Gaijin should be honest about that.

fun fact, ennemies becomming invisible isn't due to crew skills but actually due to an anti cheat bug that they've been trying to patch for years, it's not a crew skill thing

i heard this rumour, but I have my doubts it is true as it doesn match with the playing experience I've had. It just doesnt make sense to not render tanks if you can render the stuff thats behind them. The rendering is selective, camouflaged tanks often can't be seen at distance. But if you switch to a crew member, e.g. with keen vision, then suddenly the tank appears. And thats not on third person, that's on the driver view.

Is there somewhere that Gaijin have made a statement about it? If they have been trying to patch it for 'years' then it sounds dubious to me.

[Tom]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Antiriad:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Tom:

fun fact, ennemies becomming invisible isn't due to crew skills but actually due to an anti cheat bug that they've been trying to patch for years, it's not a crew skill thing

i heard this rumour, but I have my doubts it is true as it doesn match with the playing experience I've had. It just doesnt make sense to not render tanks if you can render the stuff thats behind them. The rendering is selective, camouflaged tanks often can't be seen at distance. But if you switch to a crew member, e.g. with keen vision, then suddenly the tank appears. And thats not on third person, that's on the driver view.

Is there somewhere that Gaijin have made a statement about it? If they have been trying to patch it for 'years' then it sounds dubious to me.

it's not a rumor it's a fact, i have prenium and max crews and it still happes, mods even talk about it, you're just blatantly ignoring facts, switching crew members allows you to seem them not because of skills but because you switched POV, you could go from a max crew member to a no skill one and it still appears, especially if the tank is behind a fence or something

[Muppet among Puppets]

Thats the impression i got by looking at store pages of such games.

[❤ Sly Succubus ❤]

Game has paid features>
Literally apparently most people ignore them>
People go on hollow rants when they die to paid players>
The cycle repeats with a new pair of pants>

[Antiriad]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Empty Head - No Thoughts:

Game has paid features>
Literally apparently most people ignore them>
People go on hollow rants when they die to paid players>
The cycle repeats with a new pair of pants>

Nope.

Crew skills are a good example. Keen vision lets you see tanks on realistic and simulator. Either you pay money (real cash) to get faster crew upgrades, or you have to grind out a thousand hours (at least) to earn in game money and get your crew to the same level.

Camouflages you have to buy - they make some premium players invisible or less visible at the crucial time.

For every new tank you buy at BR you must grind out modifications otherwise your machine will be slow and crappy.

This is not whining - its fact. I have been through the upgrades of vehicles and I even paid to improve my crew & suddenly starting winning a lot more on level 1 matches and seeing more tanks.

Gaijin con people into thinking it is a 'skill' game, but it is anything but. Would you say a race between a honda civic and a ferrari is a context based on skill? Nope. Thats a race between two unequal machines and thats what happens in War Thunder all the time.

Skill certainly exists in the game, no doubt, but it is pay to win. End of.

[Antiriad]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Tom:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Antiriad:

i heard this rumour, but I have my doubts it is true as it doesn match with the playing experience I've had. It just doesnt make sense to not render tanks if you can render the stuff thats behind them. The rendering is selective, camouflaged tanks often can't be seen at distance. But if you switch to a crew member, e.g. with keen vision, then suddenly the tank appears. And thats not on third person, that's on the driver view.

Is there somewhere that Gaijin have made a statement about it? If they have been trying to patch it for 'years' then it sounds dubious to me.

it's not a rumor it's a fact, i have prenium and max crews and it still happes, mods even talk about it, you're just blatantly ignoring facts, switching crew members allows you to seem them not because of skills but because you switched POV, you could go from a max crew member to a no skill one and it still appears, especially if the tank is behind a fence or something

Mods - but what does Gaijin say? Is there a statement from them directly which says 'this is a glitch we are trying to fix it'.

I think the mods you have talked to are lying or dont know what they are talking about. Invisible tank phenomena is based on the keen vision crew metric. What would be the point of having this crew skill upgrade if it didnt have a purpose?

[Judgmental Amaterasu]

Skill issue becomes more and more apparent.

[Antiriad]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Judgmental Amaterasu:

Skill issue becomes more and more apparent.

You are welcome to your opinion. I just don't agree.

How about you buy all my tanks and crew upgrades for me, we play a match. And then see who wins, If you win, I give you the cash back, or if I win, I keep the upgrades. shall we try it?

[Tom]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Antiriad:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Tom:

it's not a rumor it's a fact, i have prenium and max crews and it still happes, mods even talk about it, you're just blatantly ignoring facts, switching crew members allows you to seem them not because of skills but because you switched POV, you could go from a max crew member to a no skill one and it still appears, especially if the tank is behind a fence or something

Mods - but what does Gaijin say? Is there a statement from them directly which says 'this is a glitch we are trying to fix it'.

I think the mods you have talked to are lying or dont know what they are talking about. Invisible tank phenomena is based on the keen vision crew metric. What would be the point of having this crew skill upgrade if it didnt have a purpose?

the mods are litterally gaijin employees, you can even ask cyberstonka which is a gaijin devellopper about it on the forums

[Antiriad]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Tom:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Antiriad:

Mods - but what does Gaijin say? Is there a statement from them directly which says 'this is a glitch we are trying to fix it'.

I think the mods you have talked to are lying or dont know what they are talking about. Invisible tank phenomena is based on the keen vision crew metric. What would be the point of having this crew skill upgrade if it didnt have a purpose?

the mods are litterally gaijin employees, you can even ask cyberstonka which is a gaijin devellopper about it on the forums

I thought as much, ya. So all they want to do is gaslight newbies & tell them they are 'not good enough yet'. Not saying it isn't a good game, but am saying they are not being honest.

[Antiriad]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Antiriad:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Judgmental Amaterasu:

Skill issue becomes more and more apparent.

You are welcome to your opinion. I just don't agree.

How about you buy all my tanks and crew upgrades for me, we play a match. And then see who wins, If you win, I give you the cash back, or if I win, I keep the upgrades. shall we try it?

edited to also say: in this match up yours is unmodified and your crew level is zero and mine is aced all the. I'll let you get back to me on that.

[Tom]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Antiriad:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Tom:

the mods are litterally gaijin employees, you can even ask cyberstonka which is a gaijin devellopper about it on the forums

I thought as much, ya. So all they want to do is gaslight newbies & tell them they are 'not good enough yet'. Not saying it isn't a good game, but am saying they are not being honest.

how are they being gaslighted by being told it's a bug? Do you even know what it means or are you just throwing out buzzwords?