Move Leopard 1 to 7.7

[rigolgm]

I know it's been said before, but I'm now even more convinced that the Leopard 1 should be moved back to 7.7 from its current 7.3.

I actually don't play Germany at that rank. But lately I've been playing Britain's 'equivalent' of the Leopard 1 - the Vickers Mk1 - and i just note that the Leopard's probably it's equal ... but the Vickers is at 7.7.

By comparison:
- The Vickers has a quicker reload, which is great.
- The Vickers has a stabiliser, which is also great.
- The Vickers also has slightly better front armour.
- But in all other respects, the Leopard is equal or better. Identical APDS but has an option to fire higher penetration HEAT-FS. Rangefinder. Faster forward and backward (30% better power-to-weight ratio). Better side and rear armour. Less visible. Marginally better gun depression. Better machineguns.

I admit that the Vickers Mk1's stabiliser and reload combo is fantastic. But is it enough to make it higher BR than the Leopard 1, when the Leopard 1 does almost everything else better and seems vicious at 7.3?

I should say, I'm absolutely not arguing the Vickers Mk1 should go down to 7.3. No way. It's strong at 7.7. I'm just using it for comparison to the Leopard 1.

[Shyue Chou]

I think this was known and as a result, the repair costs of the Leopard 1 went up from about 3000 SL to 7000 SL. It is now a costly vehicle if one were to lose one.

[rigolgm]

Originally posted by Shyue Chou:

I think this was known and as a result, the repair costs of the Leopard 1 went up from about 3000 SL to 7000 SL. It is now a costly vehicle if one were to lose one.

That's still less than the Vickers Mk1. And less than another obvious victim - the M60. And my main concern is that the Leopard 1 is the kind of vehicle that's very strong on downtiers and still really handy on uptiers. It simply gets to locations faster, then snipes and ambushes powerfully.

[AimlessEagle]

Nahhhhh

Not necessary :)!

[Tom]

yeah, put it at the same BR as the AMX30, it's better than it too

[Shyue Chou]

Originally posted by rigolgm:

Originally posted by Shyue Chou:

I think this was known and as a result, the repair costs of the Leopard 1 went up from about 3000 SL to 7000 SL. It is now a costly vehicle if one were to lose one.

That's still less than the Vickers Mk1. And less than another obvious victim - the M60. And my main concern is that the Leopard 1 is the kind of vehicle that's very strong on downtiers and still really handy on uptiers. It simply gets to locations faster, then snipes and ambushes powerfully.

That is an excellent point. Actually, I do think many of the British vehicles are overtiered, for instance the Vickers Mk 1.

[M82]

I never understood why the Leo 1 was 7.3...

France gets the Lorraine 40t and AMX-50 (both medium and heavy variants) at 7.7 when only the heavy one has a significant advantage over the Leo 1; apart from all have twice as fast reload speed (every other spec is underwhelming). This is unfair.

[rigolgm]

Originally posted by Shyue Chou:

That is an excellent point. Actually, I do think many of the British vehicles are overtiered, for instance the Vickers Mk 1.

You're kidding? The Vickers Mk1 is potent. From what I can see, top level (10+ br) British vehicles are a bit weak for their br, but I don't play those.

[Shyue Chou]

Originally posted by rigolgm:

Originally posted by Shyue Chou:

That is an excellent point. Actually, I do think many of the British vehicles are overtiered, for instance the Vickers Mk 1.

You're kidding? The Vickers Mk1 is potent. From what I can see, top level (10+ br) British vehicles are a bit weak for their br, but I don't play those.

I must admit that I find the Vickers Mk 1 rather indifferent, on the other hand, the Vickers Mk 3 is my vehicle of choice. I used it to research my Challenger 2s and all other rank 7 vehicles.

[NitekPL]

Leopard 1 is not that good of a tank. Then Germany has ONLY ONE 7.7 tank which is alone in it's lineup. Then we would have 2 out of 3 7.7 tanks.
Still if you are not playing it - not your concern buddy and leave your ideas for yourself.

Luckily the snail never listens.

[Tom]

Originally posted by NitekPL:

Leopard 1 is not that good of a tank. Then Germany has ONLY ONE 7.7 tank which is alone in it's lineup. Then we would have 2 out of 3 7.7 tanks.
Still if you are not playing it - not your concern buddy and leave your ideas for yourself.

Luckily the snail never listens.

germany litterally has like four 7.7 plus two really good 7.3 ifvs you can easily drag up

[shipdesignerdude]

You've successfully pointed out all of the strengths of the Vickers. "Less visible" and "Better machine guns" aren't really comparable with more armor + better reload.

Leopard 1 is easy to kill, Vickers I tend to have to aim for lfp. Leopard I can shoot anywhere and it's a kill. Vickers also gets a stab so getting that first shot off is even harder.

[hsf_]

Originally posted by rigolgm:

I know it's been said before, but I'm now even more convinced that the Leopard 1 should be moved back to 7.7 from its current 7.3.

I actually don't play Germany at that rank. But lately I've been playing Britain's 'equivalent' of the Leopard 1 - the Vickers Mk1 - and i just note that the Leopard's probably it's equal ... but the Vickers is at 7.7.

By comparison:
- The Vickers has a quicker reload, which is great.
- The Vickers has a stabiliser, which is also great.
- The Vickers also has slightly better front armour.
- But in all other respects, the Leopard is equal or better. Identical APDS but has an option to fire higher penetration HEAT-FS. Rangefinder. Faster forward and backward (30% better power-to-weight ratio). Better side and rear armour. Less visible. Marginally better gun depression. Better machineguns.

I admit that the Vickers Mk1's stabiliser and reload combo is fantastic. But is it enough to make it higher BR than the Leopard 1, when the Leopard 1 does almost everything else better and seems vicious at 7.3?

I should say, I'm absolutely not arguing the Vickers Mk1 should go down to 7.3. No way. It's strong at 7.7. I'm just using it for comparison to the Leopard 1.

The Vickers Mk.1 is a far superior vehicle to the Leopard 1.

[rigolgm]

Originally posted by Shyue Chou:

Originally posted by rigolgm:

You're kidding? The Vickers Mk1 is potent. From what I can see, top level (10+ br) British vehicles are a bit weak for their br, but I don't play those.

I must admit that I find the Vickers Mk 1 rather indifferent, on the other hand, the Vickers Mk 3 is my vehicle of choice. I used it to research my Challenger 2s and all other rank 7 vehicles.

Vickers Mk3 is formidable, yes. I played it a lot before going down to 7.7 and trying the Vickers Mk1. I was amazed to find that the Mk1's gun reloads faster and is a lot more powerful (apart from lacking a HEAT-FS ammo choice, but APDS is better anyway). The Mk3 instead has a bit more engine power, 3 degrees more gun depression and a laser rangefinder. But for brute force, running around urban maps etc, I'd argue the Mk1 is definitely more powerful despite its lower BR.

[Zodee]

yes, put back leo 1 at 7.7 so i don't have to met it on my max uptiered match shermon jumbo 76