Pantsir? Are you serious?

[Mania]

Fire whoever suggested it, and fire whoever got it implemented.

Russia now has an SPAA capable of engaging two targets simultaneously and carries 12 missiles alongside a gun system.
It also came into service in 2012. The latest possible date for any vehicle in War Thunder to come to the game. By this logic, Gaijin should release the F-22, F-35, Typhoon, and a plethora of other vehicles to counter it.
Moved way too soon, and for what? Russia doesn't even have the TOR yet, their own indigenous design. Why not start with that?
And don't start on the fact nations like Italy are completely overlooked.

[Gjeaneman]

引用自 whatdoesthisbuttondo?：

引用自 IR9 Neckstabba：

"Quite a few" on the western side is more than exaggerating.

There are 17 helicopters carrying a Hellfire variant, these can be lofted towards a reference point and you only need to pop up for terminal guidance, for fragile targets that don't move the inertial mode can even be sufficient.

Then there is the EC-665 UHT with true self-guided fire and forget capability, and the ability to peek and shoot from behind cover.

I'd say that is "quite a few" options as far as helicopters are concerned, and the whole situation is nothing new to begin with, we've always been in range of the missile SPAA.

the tiger UHT is vastly inferior to the ka52/mi28nm, the pars lr are 50/50 and the heli has no way of defending itself from incoming aircraft other than stingers that are borderline useless for targets coming right at you

[Top Goy]

引用自 Emperors Champion Dragos：

引用自 hsf_：

They are undertiered but the damage model isn't too far from the truth. Several Su-25's have been hit with manpads and managed to get back to base for repairs.

So have A-10's, conviently, they are paper thin in this game, compared to the fantasy damage model of the su25 (and its flight model especially when loaded down, it should be chonky, not fast)

mother of god cope, both can be destroyed easily, sorry to burst your bubble that not one of the is invincible

[Top Goy]

引用自 Gjeaneman：

引用自 whatdoesthisbuttondo?：

There are 17 helicopters carrying a Hellfire variant, these can be lofted towards a reference point and you only need to pop up for terminal guidance, for fragile targets that don't move the inertial mode can even be sufficient.

Then there is the EC-665 UHT with true self-guided fire and forget capability, and the ability to peek and shoot from behind cover.

I'd say that is "quite a few" options as far as helicopters are concerned, and the whole situation is nothing new to begin with, we've always been in range of the missile SPAA.

the tiger UHT is vastly inferior to the ka52/mi28nm, the pars lr are 50/50 and the heli has no way of defending itself from incoming aircraft other than stingers that are borderline useless for targets coming right at you

m8 it has fire and forget missiles its one of the best

[whatdoesthisbuttondo?]

引用自 Gjeaneman：

the tiger UHT is vastly inferior to the ka52/mi28nm, the pars lr are 50/50 and the heli has no way of defending itself from incoming aircraft other than stingers that are borderline useless for targets coming right at you

None of this is in any way relevant, if you find yourself dogfighting a Vikhr slinger hovering over their helipad, then you messed up badly.

You are there to kill ground targets and be stealthy about it, if you suicide for the first potential kill then you're a waste of SP.

[whatdoesthisbuttondo?]

引用自 чёрный гей：

m8 it has fire and forget missiles its one of the best

It isn't "one of the best", it is the absolute best by a long shot, period.

Only trouble is the grind to get it, they really need to be looking at that.

[FkYoSht]

引用自 DoomsdayDuck555：

引用自 FkYoSht：

Any spaa added is good no matter what nation. ♥♥♥♥ CAS

Yes, but now one sides gets to use CAS while the other doesn't

I hope the other nations get better spaa too CAS is out of control atm

[Gjeaneman]

引用自 whatdoesthisbuttondo?：

引用自 Gjeaneman：

the tiger UHT is vastly inferior to the ka52/mi28nm, the pars lr are 50/50 and the heli has no way of defending itself from incoming aircraft other than stingers that are borderline useless for targets coming right at you

None of this is in any way relevant, if you find yourself dogfighting a Vikhr slinger hovering over their helipad, then you messed up badly.

You are there to kill ground targets and be stealthy about it, if you suicide for the first potential kill then you're a waste of SP.

I don't really see how I as a helicopter can dictate the engagement with a plane

[Gjeaneman]

引用自 чёрный гей：

引用自 Gjeaneman：

the tiger UHT is vastly inferior to the ka52/mi28nm, the pars lr are 50/50 and the heli has no way of defending itself from incoming aircraft other than stingers that are borderline useless for targets coming right at you

m8 it has fire and forget missiles its one of the best

you've clearly never played it

[whatdoesthisbuttondo?]

引用自 Gjeaneman：

I don't really see how I as a helicopter can dictate the engagement with a plane

You check your surroundings and don't spaceclimb looking for targets, it's not rocket science.

Seriously, if you've spend any significant amount of time in helicopters recently, you would know that none of these are actual problems.

The issue for helicopters is the IFV spam meta, and Gaijin in their infinite wisdom giving them AA tracking better than any radar SPAA.

[Gjeaneman]

引用自 whatdoesthisbuttondo?：

引用自 Gjeaneman：

I don't really see how I as a helicopter can dictate the engagement with a plane

You check your surroundings and don't spaceclimb looking for targets, it's not rocket science.

Seriously, if you've spend any significant amount of time in helicopters recently, you would know that none of these are actual problems.

The issue for helicopters is the IFV spam meta, and Gaijin in their infinite wisdom giving them AA tracking better than any radar SPAA.

trust me, I've spent a significant time flying the UHT and about 90% of my deaths are to planes that I can't really defend myself against

[dLFN]

As much as I dislike Russia always getting a fatter top tier lineup I'm fine with more powerful SPAA being added. Hopefully Japan, Italy and Israel gets some love too. CAS is already put in it's place by top tier SPAAs right now imo, it's only a problem whenever no one on the team wants to spawn as an SPAA.

[Assassin]

引用自 whatdoesthisbuttondo?：

引用自 Assassin：

Yeah its not magic.. its science.... With a 50 second flight time at 50k out i would say turning off the radar and packing up and moving in that time not really all that plausible... in war thunder yes sure.... but not if the missile sees the target with the IR sensor than its over anyway and they are actually very smart for the time and very accurate... here is a nice explanation to better understand the technology that you call "wizardry" you'll be a regular harry potter by the end of it.

If you believe that there is an IR sensor in the AGM-88, then I'd suggest you look at that video again, or find a better one if they claim there is one.

What fairly modern variants of the AGM-88 have is a millimeter wave radar, basically the missile has its own ground attack radar for terminal phase if the target radar is gone silent.

This is an improvement over GPS of earlier variants, or basic INS of even earlier variants, as it does actually allow to attack moving targets after radar emissions have ceased, or more realistically hit stationary targets with enough precision for a direct kill on an imperfect track once emissions have ceased.

Not that any of this is relevant here, since the platforms that carry the E variant are still years away in WT.

By the way, the F-16 can carry not only two but actually four AGM-88s, including HTS and Litening pods, with a slightly lesser fuel load.

Still would not help one bit in the setting and especially the maps we have in WT.

I can only reiterate, the best option in WT by far is already present, that is helicopters, specifically EC-665 UHT with PARS-3 and Apache with Hellfire in LOAL mode.

Players will learn this soon enough I'm sure, and I quite like the paradigm shift in combined arms all of this will bring.

Your right i was mistaken for the F-16s HTS pod, (I think used by the USAF only) allows F-16s to detect and automatically target radar systems with HARMs instead of relying on the missile's sensors alone. my bad and thanks for the correction.. Still want it in game though lol...

[Neckstabba]

引用自 whatdoesthisbuttondo?：

引用自 IR9 Neckstabba：

"Quite a few" on the western side is more than exaggerating.

There are 17 helicopters carrying a Hellfire variant, these can be lofted towards a reference point and you only need to pop up for terminal guidance, for fragile targets that don't move the inertial mode can even be sufficient.

Then there is the EC-665 UHT with true self-guided fire and forget capability, and the ability to peek and shoot from behind cover.

I'd say that is "quite a few" options as far as helicopters are concerned, and the whole situation is nothing new to begin with, we've always been in range of the missile SPAA.

With the current SAM's i would agree with you. Seeing that the helis you mentioned have to peek at least once lets the Pantsir know the location. Due to the radar of the pantsir it can easily lock the enemy missile and shoot it down. Both the PARS and the Hellfire are rather slow.

Not to mention that all of those helis cant do that job when theres an Ka50/52 or Mi28NM around, as they simply kill you without any danger from your side.

You imply that many sleep on your mentioned helis, and while its true for all but the UHT (probably the most used Western top tier heli) ,due to its ease of use like the Russian helis, the Hellfire helis are not used by many to their full extend. Its very likely that the majority of users dont even know how to use LOAL or use it efficiently. So if we go by the logic that we have players that know what they are doing then the western helis stand no chance. Russia with the same skill level than the western team will obliterate anything without much of a threat.

The Vikhir helis will take down any threat that the Pantsir cant see or destroy.

As im a player that loves to sit in helis all the time and have multiple nations to top tier with helis i can for sure say that ANY Heli is simply inferior to the Russian one. KA52 and Mi28NM are just easy godmode compared to any other heli in the game.

Apache MK.1 with the Starstreak and the Z-10 are the best contenders for the Hellfire missile. And while the Z-10 has better AA missiles - it cant lock the Ka52 because of "reasons" making it utterly useless against it. Not to mention its China and often on the RU side - or in the case of SB always.
Apache MK.1 can actually shoot down and defend itself with the laser guided Starstreak and is very likely the best all around western Heli.

UHT is the best ground destroyer of the western side but lacks anything to really defend itself. If a plane is stupid enough to get by a Stinger or the slow PARS its a skill issue.

Otherwise make NATO vs Warsaw pact in every game mode in ground a thing and then it would be perfect. Let RU and China keep their better SAM's while the west has the better Air force.

[<I^_^]I_1C3Qu33n_X33_I[^_^]>]

The Panzir S1 was highly needed, and gaijin also explained this in a little development blog, in the end its just the next step after the tunguska, im happy for all russian players hopefully they add russian BTR's aswell.

[JuX]

引用自 I Kawaii_Sheep I：

The Panzir S1 was highly needed, and gaijin also explained this in a little development blog, in the end its just the next step after the tunguska, im happy for all russian players hopefully they add russian BTR's aswell.

The next step after Tunguska is to overlook the TOR-1?