skill issue "culture" needs to die.

[The Roach]

say what you will.

[Toblm]

Originally posted by What?:

There's a base of users on War Thunder that will take a post out of context and respond with a platitude or something everyone knows about in a patronizing way, as if they were informing us of something we didn't know - while at the same time completely failing to understand the post they're responding to due to staggeringly low IQ and complete lack of comprehension of War Thunder.

Originally posted by Toblm:

Sounds like you need more practice aiming.

Sounds like you're now going to pretend to be a tough guy on the internet instead of addressing my post. And yes that's exactly the randomness I'm talking about, every gun has an RNG, every impact of every projectile has a random effect. You can't predict this.

You seem to be focusing on tanks. When a shell hits a tank, is it predictable every time what it will do?

Within a margin of error, which one can account for, yes. One can predict what ones round is going to.

For example: I know if I hit a Panther or Tiger in the turret cheek with 17pdr it will knock out the offence capabilities of the tank.

Every tank, every round has similar things a skilled player can know. Knowing what your gun and round can and cannot do is an important skill. Just like its and important skill to know if the gun you are using has a higher deviation. (QF 2-pdr for example, is not a snipers weapon and shouldnt used as one)

[Toblm]

Originally posted by What?:

Originally posted by Toblm:

Not being able to have 100% success rate and being 90% random as has argued in the thread are worlds apart.

People play this game for 1 month and learn how to shoot. You're not a genius, you haven't figured out anything new, every single player knows how to shoot, the limiting factor is basically hardware (controllers, good connection, good screens) when it comes to snapping off the right shot. That part of the game can be safely ignored because it mostly has nothing to do with skill.

Combined with simple luck (spawn location, if you're facing 10 guys alone or 1 guy with 10 friends etc), what the projectile does IS the source of the difference between success and failure.

The vanishing minority is you making decisions better than the other guy.

You would be amazed how many players do not know how to shoot.
The number of posts that claim Panthers and Tigers and KVs and IS and Jumbos and, and, and are invulnerable because they dont know how to shoot with what they are using is appalling.

[What?]

Yeah this is just boring "you gotta know your ammo man, aim ahead a bit lel brohime, youre welcome for the protips", come back when you can talk to me without strawmanning.

[Shyue Chou]

Originally posted by What?:

Originally posted by Toblm:

If you are experiencing "RNG" when firing you need more practice aiming.

That's just not realistic, are we playing the same game? If i fire and it hits the enemy, the effect on the enemy has almost NEVER been the same. It's always different.
How are you not seeing a randomness?

Not at all. It depends greatly on the hit location and where one aims. Oh yes, one has to watch for the ricochet mechanics too. The angle of the hit on the armour.

[Eftwyrd]

Originally posted by What?:

Yeah this is just boring "you gotta know your ammo man, aim ahead a bit lel brohime, youre welcome for the protips", come back when you can talk to me without strawmanning.

a perfect example of why 'get gud' culture exists

you evidently have no intention of taking advice on what you are doing wrong and how you can get better so why should any of us bother writing paragraphs to refute your low effort when a 'get gud' will have just the same effect

[Toblm]

Originally posted by What?:

Yeah this is just boring "you gotta know your ammo man, aim ahead a bit lel brohime, youre welcome for the protips", come back when you can talk to me without strawmanning.

Ironically your accusation of strawmanning is exactly that.

[What?]

Originally posted by Eftwyrd:

writing paragraphs to refute your low effort

Aren't you the guy who's telling me to fly around the map and report AFK people and botting people like some kind of aerial hall monitor?

Why are you stalking me?

[Eftwyrd]

Originally posted by What?:

Originally posted by Eftwyrd:

writing paragraphs to refute your low effort

Aren't you the guy who's telling me to fly around the map and report AFK people and botting people like some kind of aerial hall monitor?

Why are you stalking me?

you are allowed to be in multiple discussions but im not? is this your first time on a forum?

if you dont like what im posting in either thread then make your arguments relevant to that thread, you arent special, i couldn't care less who you are

[What?]

Originally posted by Shyue Chou:

Not at all. It depends greatly on the hit location and where one aims. Oh yes, one has to watch for the ricochet mechanics too. The angle of the hit on the armour.

And the part where the shells have a cone of RNG in how they fly, and how the other guy moves, and a million other things (like recently HE having no effect).

I think all of you are ground forces players firing at point blank range at targets that can't move out of the way, and you can't wrap your heads around why people can't pick which part of a vehicle to shoot at.

I play air, where range is ~1km and decision time is a second, and naval, where the range is 10km and half the time I can't see the target at all and I'm shooting at a wall of smoke guesstimating where they are. Real serious "git good" moments.

Originally posted by Toblm:

Originally posted by What?:

Ironically your accusation of strawmanning is exactly that.

Ironically your claims that I'm ironically strawmanning while accusing of strawmanning, is actually strawmanning. Why don't you tell me more about how skilled players skilfully know what a round can do and how to use skill to attack an enemy with skill and defeat them with skill. What the ♥♥♥♥ is this patronizing ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥:

Originally posted by Toblm:

Every tank, every round has similar things a skilled player can know. Knowing what your gun and round can and cannot do is an important skill. Just like its and important skill to know if the gun you are using has a higher deviation. (QF 2-pdr for example, is not a snipers weapon and shouldnt used as one)

[What?]

Originally posted by Eftwyrd:

i couldn't care less who you are

Yeah ok bud, how would you respond to

Originally posted by Eftwyrd:

a perfect example of why 'get gud' culture exists
you evidently have no intention of taking advice on what you are doing wrong and how you can get better so why should any of us bother writing paragraphs to refute your low effort when a 'get gud' will have just the same effect

[Toblm]

Originally posted by What?:

Originally posted by Shyue Chou:

Not at all. It depends greatly on the hit location and where one aims. Oh yes, one has to watch for the ricochet mechanics too. The angle of the hit on the armour.

And the part where the shells have a cone of RNG in how they fly, and how the other guy moves, and a million other things (like recently HE having no effect).

None of that is random. Just because you dont control it, doesnt make it random.
Predicting a player's response to your actions is a skill.
HE not working, not random. It is now a know factor, adjust. Though the blanket statement that HE doesnt work isnt accurate either.

[Eftwyrd]

Originally posted by What?:

Originally posted by Eftwyrd:

i couldn't care less who you are

Yeah ok bud, how would you respond to

Originally posted by Eftwyrd:

a perfect example of why 'get gud' culture exists
you evidently have no intention of taking advice on what you are doing wrong and how you can get better so why should any of us bother writing paragraphs to refute your low effort when a 'get gud' will have just the same effect

thought i was pretty clear and on point with the subject of the thread, either be prepared to take on board the advice people give you in good faith in a discussion or they will stop taking any effort to give you a thought out response longer than 'get gud'

EDIT: if its not a discussion you are after then perhaps opening a blog would be more appropriate than posting on a forum...

[What?]

Originally posted by Toblm:

Just because you dont control it, doesnt make it random.

Now we're redefining things. Is there a reason for anything you're saying here aside from masturbation?

[torindechoza]

Originally posted by What?:

The RNG factor is so ridiculous that skill is maybe 5-10% of the win.

With that logic all players should have the same stats.

Originally posted by What?:

Positioning to attack is the only skill of the game. As an airplane putting yourself in a higher energy position for the longest term, gives you an advantage. Ground vehicles have advantages in ambush positions, or in positions where they can escape quickly. Similar for naval.

There is NO SKILL when it comes to firing, even in high skill modes like simulation, the RNG factor of the impact is insane.

Try to shoot a plane from some distance without aiming skill and i will tell you you are an average player that misses 100 % of the shots.

Aaand no. Im not giving you advice here. Because you already told us you know everything that is needed to know.
Im adressing the casual reader that can be mislead with false arguments.

[Toblm]

Originally posted by What?:

Originally posted by Toblm:

Just because you dont control it, doesnt make it random.

Now we're redefining things. Is there a reason for anything you're saying here aside from masturbation?

Redefining? Not at all.

The cone you are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ about is modeled physics. Not random.
Physics is predictable. One can control for the drop of a round and deviation of a round. Can this control be perfect? Sure, if one has time.

But since this a competitive realtime multiplayer game one doesnt always have time to control for factors. This doesnt make it random, being able to aim at, shoot at, and hit, what you mean to is a learned and more importantly practiced skill.