If this game ever gets a good-enough competition, it's playerbase will vanish within one year.

[Graephen]

These updates are getting crappier and crappier. HE-I belts are broken and the devs are silent. They're adding another overpowered SPAA to counter new overpowered jets, but only to USSR/Russia, so that if you play USSR/Russia, you won't be bothered by any pesky planes. The Pantsir S1 is a system, that first entered the service of Russian military in 2012, so with this logic, the USA may get the F-35 next patch to counter it, because it has entered service only three years later and it's completely fine to be able to obliterate aircraft, when they get within engagement zone.

Meanwhile there's an entire mode, that's a total pain to play, because Gaijin has never fixed it. They keep removing any complaints from main forums, reddit and even from steam discussions. There's a ton of unfixed glitches, such as ghost shells, that have never been fixed, so maybe HE-I belts may join them now and they will probably patch it in 2025, given their history of fixing things. Where's Japan's toptier SPAA? Where's the British one? Why is the Russian tech tree chock-full of tanks, while these nations get ♥♥♥♥ all?

It is a pity Armored Warfare wasn't very original or groundbreaking in any way, because it handled the basic gameplay quite nicely.

All I'd like, is a WWII/Cold War semi-realistic vehicle fighting game with ACTUAL physics (no invincible houses like WT and WoT), that actually balances stuff and brings a ton of content to it's playerbase. A game with unbiased devs, who test before release, don't use a shabby ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of an engine with gazilion lines of spaghetti code that breaks if you put a space into it and have a similar gameplay loop to that of War Thunder. Then they can rip-off the playerbase all they want, as long as they keep the game fun and engaging, not grindy and retarded.

[Graephen]

Originalmente postado por shipdesignerdude:

Holy smokes would people stop referencing years of introduction as dictating what new tech comes next....


First it was CAS is OP, now it's SPAA is OP.

Britain has 5 Challenger 2s now, US has 4 Top tier Abrams. Japan has 4 Type 90s and Type 10s. The only thing all these countries lack compared to RU are support vehicles like the Sprut, at least try to look at what you're saying.

And what do you think the Dev server is for?

You're completely oblivious to the state of the game now versus what it was in about 2017. It had so much potential and all went down the pockets of top management in Gaijin.

Originalmente postado por 『Sinner』:

There's a few issues when it comes to competitors trying to enter the field. They need to have a big publisher or funds available to them, because it is going to be a very long development cycle to try to match War Thunder. I'm not talking just about adding the vehicles, but designing the maps, designing the physics/simulations WT does, and then of course trying to play a game of catchup with WT.

The other issue is well.. Let's say a new competitor comes out that has better simulations, better vehicle play, and overall friendly features than WT. I've put thousands of hours into WT and money, so there will always be the itch in the back of my head to go back simply because of that. One tactic games use is that you will stick around longer if you've actually invested money, and time, into it.

To be honest; the most expensive part would be running all the servers, the marketing and the codebase. The rest is just a lot of content and a lot of models, which can be made very easily - if you want to make a new, similar game to murder WoT and WT in their sleep, you wouldn't need an AAA budget. Close to it, but definitely not the likes of Battlefield, or even something like Stellaris. Like Mirage's said, it didn't progress heavily since about 2014 and I'd go back on this a little bit and say the biggest progression was upgrading the graphical engine a few years ago and all progress has died down since then, because it has broken so much in the game they are hopelessly trying to fix it up 'till now.

So the only catch-up would be marketing and playerbase-wise.

Originalmente postado por shipdesignerdude:

Originalmente postado por Mirage:

I mean Warthunder hasn't progressed a whole lot since 2014 beyond just adding more vehicles so not like it's that many years to match that.
Map design is trivial to beat considering how bad most maps are.
Simulations are way beyond what is needed for the game, it's absurd how simplistic and dumbed down the gameplay is but then we also have air temperature, altitude, air density and whatnot affect shell and vehicle performance.
The damage model is overly complex which is a detriment to the game, after almost 10 years they still haven't succeeded at dealing with light armor.. volumetric was also a mistake.

Won't be that difficult to replicate the majority of Warthunder relatively easily, the only real thing that will be difficult to compete with is the sheer amount of vehicles that are in the game, but considering those are out of reach for most players anyways it's not a major selling point either.

And then there's so much left on the table by Gaijin that can easily add more depth to the game, just adding more than 1 mode and you've already bested Gaijin, or add in infantry, tank EC, logistics, any form of balance, a reasonable economy, a reasonable progression system, a non RNG based combat system etc.

Think it really would be quite easy to make a better game.

So where is the competitor? Surely someone like EA would've realized this? As the original comment said, it's a huge ask to beat over a decade of tried and true development and progress, and WT has made leaps since 2014, despite what you say. Engine updates, new vehicles, mechanics and features.

Looking at EA's current management and EA's overall history, they're unable to even release a sequel to their working franchises and it's all downhill from here for EA too. They operate on even worse and more disgusting principles than Gaijin, who are in big trouble as soon as EU's sanctions touch them further, or if EU bans lootboxes everywhere in any form. EA operates in such a way, legal bodies can't really touch them, because they're too big.

Originalmente postado por RaideR:

When people will wake up and wont support Gaijin and ruzzia both of them will be vanish in one year

I live in a country, where 50% of all population supports Russia. I have my doubrts it will be in the next century :|

Originalmente postado por 『Sinner』:

Originalmente postado por Mirage:

I mean Warthunder hasn't progressed a whole lot since 2014 beyond just adding more vehicles so not like it's that many years to match that.
Map design is trivial to beat considering how bad most maps are.
Simulations are way beyond what is needed for the game, it's absurd how simplistic and dumbed down the gameplay is but then we also have air temperature, altitude, air density and whatnot affect shell and vehicle performance.
The damage model is overly complex which is a detriment to the game, after almost 10 years they still haven't succeeded at dealing with light armor.. volumetric was also a mistake.

Won't be that difficult to replicate the majority of Warthunder relatively easily, the only real thing that will be difficult to compete with is the sheer amount of vehicles that are in the game, but considering those are out of reach for most players anyways it's not a major selling point either.

And then there's so much left on the table by Gaijin that can easily add more depth to the game, just adding more than 1 mode and you've already bested Gaijin, or add in infantry, tank EC, logistics, any form of balance, a reasonable economy, a reasonable progression system, a non RNG based combat system etc.

Think it really would be quite easy to make a better game.

I think you vastly oversimplify the work that would be required. WT has changed some physics and mechanics since 2014, some major, some not, but that's not the point. The main issue is that WT has thousands of vehicles, it's why some competitor games (that I won't name) have decided to stick to certain time periods. If a game wanted to match WT in sheer volume, that takes time, especially assuming they want to create decent damage models and try to make vehicles realistic with movement and ballistics. I personally have some countries where I'm finally reaching 10.0 in air/ground after 5k hours, so while a game could just focus on cold-war or WW2, if it truly wanted to steal WT players away, it would have to likely do more than just that.

There's also the question of money, as sad as it does sound, imagining how much money a company would seek to recover from development and potential profit, I can't imagine a big company (especially considering companies like EA) not monetizing their game similar to WT.

I'm also personally against stuff like infantry, I don't touch Enlisted for a reason, it's just not my kind of thing personally. Anything really more than what we have atm might make the game into something very different, which is fine, but it has to be done right and that's speculative.

WT may have thousands of vehicles, but at least 10% if not more are carbon-copies of eachother. Recycled content. Making 1000 models of different vehicles is what 3D artists do as training, when they want to improve - it doesen't take as much effort as people think.

The changing of mechanics is a lot of work, that I agree. The ammount of spaghetti code in WT suggests the programmers are either crunching on don't care at all, possibly both.

There's also less damaging and agressive ways of monetizing a game than Gaijin does. Actually, I'd go as far as saying they're actively damaging their own profits by

- letting Naval flop so hard, the slap is still echoing the room to this day
- upgrading the graphics engine without investing time in optimisation, making people with bad computers unable to play anymore every time there's too much smoke or somebody is being hit by many projectiles at once, as was my case until I upgraded
- being overly biased towards the RU palyerbase, who aren't really rich compared to their SEA, NA or EU counterparts, making some percentage of people feel it's not worth buying their country (say France's) premium vehicles, because Russia will always get something better
- purposedly breaking-up loadouts for Ground Realistic even for lower-tier premiums and generally breaking lower-tier premiums, such as the T-34 747, which is rank II, so it cannot do missions, but is 4.3. Who in their right mind would buy that?
- increasing repairs costs so much, that not even buying premium and playing premium vehicles only helps anymore
- poeple not looking forward to lategame, because it's worse in every way from midgame, making a good ammount of people not care about buying 7.0 and higher premiums

... and so many more.

[whatdoesthisbuttondo?]

Originalmente postado por Omte Sul:

You're completely oblivious to the state of the game now versus what it was in about 2017. It had so much potential and all went down the pockets of top management in Gaijin.

Had a random YT video in my feed today from a couple of years ago, back when the T-64B was new. Didn't have the ERA add-on package yet.

Quite funny because basically the same deal back then, new vehicle so OP blah blah.

What struck me though, and I guess this is hindsight always being 20/20, it would have made a lot of sense to introduce the T-64BV as separate vehicle instead of an upgrade package.

Same with other upgrade packages that sometimes came decades later, basically slowing down the pace a lot and focusing on getting general game play loop in order before adding more and more modern weapons that poorly fit into the big picture.

Looking at the tech tree, there seems to be no clear concept they follow when introducing a vehicle or upgrade package, and obviously this is bringing a lot of balancing issues.

I love to play the T-64B without the ERA package, but removing it makes me feel like a complete lunatic... I can actually feel the glare of my teammates through the internet.

[SilverAmerican]

I know man but ya gotta lower your expectations. Gaijin is a russian company that's headquartered in Hungary, that's two major red flags right there.

[♡ Melody ♡]

there will never be competition. The game is too far advanced for anyone to compete past smaller niches. I mean what dev team has the money and or drive to create a game of this scale?

[♡ Melody ♡]

Originalmente postado por Mirage:

Originalmente postado por ♡ 𝓛𝓲𝓵𝓵𝓮𝔂 ♡:

there will never be competition. The game is too far advanced for anyone to compete past smaller niches. I mean what dev team has the money and or drive to create a game of this scale?

Advanced how? Overly complex mechanics that are mostly detrimental to gameplay do not need to be matched in any way.

perhaps not the right word. But theres just far too much there for any competitor to compete.

[Graephen]

Originalmente postado por ♡ 𝓛𝓲𝓵𝓵𝓮𝔂 ♡:

there will never be competition. The game is too far advanced for anyone to compete past smaller niches. I mean what dev team has the money and or drive to create a game of this scale?

It's not advanced, Gaijin makes you think it is, because of how slowly they develop the game, but that's actually because they want to invest the least possible ammount of money to get a lot of profit back i.e. introduce flamethrowers to get people to buy a Battlepass.

Originalmente postado por ♡ 𝓛𝓲𝓵𝓵𝓮𝔂 ♡:

Originalmente postado por Mirage:

Advanced how? Overly complex mechanics that are mostly detrimental to gameplay do not need to be matched in any way.

perhaps not the right word. But theres just far too much there for any competitor to compete.

Also not true. A dedicated dev team could have a base game set-up within a year with actual building destruction physics and whatnot. Between 50 and 100 people would be able to do it with a budget of under 600K, which isn't that much when we're talking MMOs and we get Kickstarter or Patreon involved. Hell - Star Citizen has gathered 200 milion on kickstarter.

[shipdesignerdude]

The great thing about there being so many vehicles is what you choose to play. I can play a multitude of bombers, strike aircraft and fighters. Anything really. Why is having less vehicles better? 100 vs. 1000, I would take 1000 any day.

I don't think anyone on this forum is qualified enough to tell us that a competitor for WT could easily come about within a year. 2077 had 7 years to develop, 2042 had 3. Games that are much simpler than WT, had more money behind them, more hype, and released as disasters. Not to mention the half dozen realistic FPS games that have died over the past year, because they can't stack up to the industry giant (WT).

[shipdesignerdude]

Originalmente postado por Mirage:

Originalmente postado por shipdesignerdude:

The great thing about there being so many vehicles is what you choose to play. I can play a multitude of bombers, strike aircraft and fighters. Anything really. Why is having less vehicles better? 100 vs. 1000, I would take 1000 any day.

I don't think anyone on this forum is qualified enough to tell us that a competitor for WT could easily come about within a year. 2077 had 7 years to develop, 2042 had 3. Games that are much simpler than WT, had more money behind them, more hype, and released as disasters. Not to mention the half dozen realistic FPS games that have died over the past year, because they can't stack up to the industry giant (WT).

1000 vehicles is great but it many cases it just means there's hundreds of vehicles in the way of getting the ones you want, 500 that you haven't unlocked yet and 50 you might play with some consistency.

Cyberpunk is a vastly more complex game than having tanks fight eachother in a field, that's probably a single day of work for someone who knows what they're doing.

But what if I wanted to play one of the vehicles in between what you want? It's up to the player to decide what they want to play, and variety is good. Just because you don't like a tank or plane doesn't mean nobody else does.

Of course someone could make a mobile game that can do that. But Cyberpunk is just people shooting each other and a couple animations right? You just neglect anything but the most basic summary of a game. WT's mechanics aren't limited to tank shoot tank, even WOT blitz has more essence than that.

[Jaes]

Jesus Christ, this thread is full of "WOW Killer" syndrome and have no idea how game development works.

If someone thinks they can convince 50-100 people to work on a budget of less than $600,000 for a years work when they can get hired at their local grocery store chain and make more money in six months than they would working on a game from scratch in a year, you're clearly out of your depth for this conversation.

You'd be hard pressed to find an actual skilled developer that knows anything about coding, let alone engine building, for less than $100,000. And you'd still be paying them below their market value.

[《STATIC》]

The Russian Bias in this game is insane. KV-1s and T-34s are way more op than people hate to admit. They can snipe almost all Shermans. Now here's the thing. Most brainless players would say "YoU HaVe To HiT iN A sPeCiFic PaRT tO tAKe DoWn A KV-1 oR a T-34". They can snipe Shermans almost literally anywhere! Meanwhile Sherman have to aim for 2 specific spots (Which most of the times they don't insta kill the tanks anyways). And if you have noticed look in comparison at Shermans shells storage locations compared to KV-1 and T-34. Shermans literally have in each side of the tank shell storage and another reminder ,when you shoot the russian shells they don't explode! Sounds like a lot of bias for me. The fact Gaijin literally has Russian Devs it's a red flag right there...


What kills this game for many players is the:


- Bad map designs,
- Unbalanced vehicles,
- Bad BR,
- Lots of boring grinds,
- The amount of P2W content.



My prediction to this game is that it would last only 4-5 more years before collapse either because of how each and each update gets more bad and unbalanced or simply because game gets overall boring and infuriating.


I'm surprised how the US Government didn't ban this game with the recent leaks of the F-15 and F-16...

[Eftwyrd]

Originalmente postado por Saitama:

4-5 more years is already longer than the lifespan of your average 'AAA' CoD release, i doubt they actually intend to run warthunder forever so 15 years wouldnt 'bad' by any stretch of the imagination

Also reddit/facebook/twitter should be banned because im sure plenty of illegal/classified content has been posted there, never mind they have nothing to do with it being posted, actively discourage its posting and will not make use of the things being posted. /s

the level of irrational hate (and outright racism...) directed at gaijin is actually hilarious, ban the internet by your reasoning because its the primary source if leaks, no fault of the idiots that obviously had no business having access to classified material

if any of you actually had half a brain you would realise how hard it would be to compete in a niche market with not one but two well entrenched products with decades more experience in the arena. Even scrapping their current products and starting again gaijin or wargaming would be far more capable than another developer without that experience (incidentally it wouldnt actually surprise me if gaijin did wipe the slate clean and start again someday, anyone around here remember warthunder's predecessor birds of steel?)

no investor or major player has invested in anything similar to date because its not worth it, the potential playerbase is a fraction of that of a more mainstream concept, already served by two companies. The risk of outright failure is high because you are not banking on being a side gig played alongside but outright stealing customers from those other companies and sunk costs fallacy would keep people around even if by some miracle you did actually produce an early product considered 'better' by a majority

try crowdfunding a warthunder/world of tanks killer and sure you would get plenty of bitter fanboys paying up but what are your actual credentials besides being a critic? if this was such a no brainer business idea you wouldnt be talking about it, you would be mortgaging your house to go and do it

no different than every sports bar drunk being a critic capable of running their favourite sports team better than its current management.

[Graephen]

Originalmente postado por shipdesignerdude:

The great thing about there being so many vehicles is what you choose to play. I can play a multitude of bombers, strike aircraft and fighters. Anything really. Why is having less vehicles better? 100 vs. 1000, I would take 1000 any day.

I don't think anyone on this forum is qualified enough to tell us that a competitor for WT could easily come about within a year. 2077 had 7 years to develop, 2042 had 3. Games that are much simpler than WT, had more money behind them, more hype, and released as disasters. Not to mention the half dozen realistic FPS games that have died over the past year, because they can't stack up to the industry giant (WT).

Okay, let's see the "1000" vehicles;

A tiny fraction of them you can't ever, EVER get, unless you buy a second-hand account. These include things like the Zrynyi I, Sturmtiger, or Tandem.

Another part of these are "event" vehicles. Can only get these on the market for GJN and they can cost either 7 GJN or 2000 GJN, depending on how much of these remains on the market. Oh, btw, Gaijin takes 25% of every sale ;D

Next are "pack" vehicles. These tend to be purposedly overpowered to get people to buy them and it's mostly hightiers. Usual costs is between 40 and 80 bucks for a single pixel tank.

True premium vehicles you can buy with GE in the ingame store. A tiny fraction are achievable through grinding the game for 90 days straight, putting at least 1, but upwards of 4 hours on a bad day into the game every day and you cannot influence which will it be. Gaijin also tends to mess with these, making them obsolete by reducing their rank below III, or increasing their BR for no reason than to break-up setups.

Then you finally have truly "free" vehicles. Not really;
- high tiers are not fun to play and will drain your SL. They are also dominated by any of the above premium vehicles, that are usually stronger and better and get preferential BR. They take hundreds of hours sunk into the game to get, if you want them all - i'd put anything above 9.0 in here.

- midtier is the only place you can have "fun", sort of. They are pusrposedly breaking-up loadouts in here, deranking vehicles, similar to what they do to regular premiums. But it's the only place that's fun - I'd say it's at most 200 vehicles out of the advertised 1000.

- lowtier is their secondary dumping ground for overpowered premiums. Instead of getting welcomed into the game, you'll be facing level 100 players, who've spent 800+ bucks on it and have been playing it from 2016. But yeah, the most achievable tier and it's the only one still fun, if you aren't new.

And then there is the "unplayables". We put weird stuff, that never works i.e. Schrade Musik planes, brutally overtiered vehicles such as the Sagittario or Vampire, 80% of all bombers, EVERYTHING from Naval - especially japanese armored boats, lmao and stuff that is just so bad, the last time you've seen it is when they've released them as a part of a new nation and you haven't seen these since that day. Could be upwards of 100 vehicles in here, not kidding.

So really, there's 1000 models of vehicles, about 600 of which you can technically play and about 100 of which are actually fun. Anyone who says otherwise, is a walking Gaijin ad.

[Eftwyrd]

Originalmente postado por Omte Sul:

ah the tried and true call of the bitter forumgoer. 'if you disagree with me you must be being payed'

a perfect example of poisoning the well, a subcase of the argumentum ad hominem where you attack your opponent rather than their argument preemptively, usually utilised as a last resort to distract by the truly desperate attempting to shore up an argument they lack the skills to debate

i am just laughing my a** off at your whole premise, go pitch your concept to a major company or investor if it is such a no brainer... and watch them laugh in your face, because obviously you lack the funds or expertise to actually carry out your genius plan

to return your argument in kind because obviously this whole thread has no basis in fact or any chance of logical conclusion you are literally indistinguishable from the drunk screaming at the television in a sports bar criticising their favourite sports teams management about everything they could do better, while in reality just drowning the sorrows from their dead end job without the skillset to even manage a corner store

hey maybe you just enjoy screaming ineffectually into the void trying to impress anonymous forum goers with your 'flawless' arguments while failing to actually achieve anything

[♡ Melody ♡]

It's hard to compete with so much content avalible

[shipdesignerdude]

Originalmente postado por Omte Sul:

Originalmente postado por shipdesignerdude:

The great thing about there being so many vehicles is what you choose to play. I can play a multitude of bombers, strike aircraft and fighters. Anything really. Why is having less vehicles better? 100 vs. 1000, I would take 1000 any day.

I don't think anyone on this forum is qualified enough to tell us that a competitor for WT could easily come about within a year. 2077 had 7 years to develop, 2042 had 3. Games that are much simpler than WT, had more money behind them, more hype, and released as disasters. Not to mention the half dozen realistic FPS games that have died over the past year, because they can't stack up to the industry giant (WT).

Okay, let's see the "1000" vehicles;

A tiny fraction of them you can't ever, EVER get, unless you buy a second-hand account. These include things like the Zrynyi I, Sturmtiger, or Tandem.

Another part of these are "event" vehicles. Can only get these on the market for GJN and they can cost either 7 GJN or 2000 GJN, depending on how much of these remains on the market. Oh, btw, Gaijin takes 25% of every sale ;D

Next are "pack" vehicles. These tend to be purposedly overpowered to get people to buy them and it's mostly hightiers. Usual costs is between 40 and 80 bucks for a single pixel tank.

True premium vehicles you can buy with GE in the ingame store. A tiny fraction are achievable through grinding the game for 90 days straight, putting at least 1, but upwards of 4 hours on a bad day into the game every day and you cannot influence which will it be. Gaijin also tends to mess with these, making them obsolete by reducing their rank below III, or increasing their BR for no reason than to break-up setups.

Then you finally have truly "free" vehicles. Not really;
- high tiers are not fun to play and will drain your SL. They are also dominated by any of the above premium vehicles, that are usually stronger and better and get preferential BR. They take hundreds of hours sunk into the game to get, if you want them all - i'd put anything above 9.0 in here.

- midtier is the only place you can have "fun", sort of. They are pusrposedly breaking-up loadouts in here, deranking vehicles, similar to what they do to regular premiums. But it's the only place that's fun - I'd say it's at most 200 vehicles out of the advertised 1000.

- lowtier is their secondary dumping ground for overpowered premiums. Instead of getting welcomed into the game, you'll be facing level 100 players, who've spent 800+ bucks on it and have been playing it from 2016. But yeah, the most achievable tier and it's the only one still fun, if you aren't new.

And then there is the "unplayables". We put weird stuff, that never works i.e. Schrade Musik planes, brutally overtiered vehicles such as the Sagittario or Vampire, 80% of all bombers, EVERYTHING from Naval - especially japanese armored boats, lmao and stuff that is just so bad, the last time you've seen it is when they've released them as a part of a new nation and you haven't seen these since that day. Could be upwards of 100 vehicles in here, not kidding.

So really, there's 1000 models of vehicles, about 600 of which you can technically play and about 100 of which are actually fun. Anyone who says otherwise, is a walking Gaijin ad.

Well it's not exactly the game's fault I didn't play their game when the event was ongoing. I also hate to break it to you but almost all of the new 70 dollar prems are meh. MiG-23ML is a worse MLD, J-35XS isn't great for it's BR, Mirage F1C is horrendous, J-7D is average, Kfir Canard is bad, F-4J is bad. The only good one's I'd say are the American ones, the F-4S being the best Phantom at only 11.3 and the A-6E having 9-L's at 10.3.

I also got off premium time recently and have been able to actually net profit from top tier, it really is dependent on skill up in those tiers. Most of your "unplayables" are actually vehicles some of the better players use for a fun challenge, just check out Smigol's channel. I personally enjoyed the US rank 6 aviation, which is pretty high in SL costs. Also the Super Pershing back when it was 18k repair cost.