F-16 vs Mig29

[JacK_Qc]

The mig they just added is the mig29 S (9.13) entering production 1994 - BR.11.7

vs

F-16a... the first F-16A rolled out on 20 October 1976 and first flew on 8 December - BR.11.7
F-14a... The F-14 first flew on 21 December 1970 and made its first deployment in 1974 - BR11.7
Mirage 2000C-S5 The first production Mirage 2000C (C for chasseur, "fighter") flew on 20 November 1982.[6] Deliveries to the AdA began in 1983...

I know why you skipped the Mig29A but... yeah that's disapointing

[Jaes]

Frankly, it's fine.

I've been absolutely clowning on MiG-29s on the test server with the US F-16A.

F-14A Early is still highly competitive thanks to its stand off weapons, and it's no slouch in a two circle. I haven't properly tested the F-14A Early yet, but as long as you maintain your energy, you can trap a MiG-29 in a two circle until one of you runs out of fuel or gets picked off by a teammate.

Not sure what you're trying to point out here other than aircraft 15 years this MiG-29's senior are still highly capable of contending and defeating it even though it's "newer."

If anything, you're just showcasing US/NATO aircraft superiority.

[florble mcfumperdink]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Jaes:

Frankly, it's fine.

I've been absolutely clowning on MiG-29s on the test server with the US F-16A.

F-14A Early is still highly competitive thanks to its stand off weapons, and it's no slouch in a two circle. I haven't properly tested the F-14A Early yet, but as long as you maintain your energy, you can trap a MiG-29 in a two circle until one of you runs out of fuel or gets picked off by a teammate.

Not sure what you're trying to point out here other than aircraft 15 years this MiG-29's senior are still highly capable of contending and defeating it even though it's "newer."

If anything, you're just showcasing US/NATO aircraft superiority.

The fact that an F-16A Block 10 from like 1978 and an initial production F-14A with the Aardvark's Allison engines from 1974 as well as a french dorito plane from 1982 are still perfectly capable of pounding the Fulcrum into dust despite all being anywhere from 10 to 20 years older than it is just funny.

That being said, from what I understand, the Fulcrum currently has a strange FM in that its basically a tweaked F-14 FM. So, things might change significantly and it may become much more competent, or it will continue getting dropkicked by planes that are separated from the Fulcrum by timespans longer than my entire life.

Edit: Also we must consider the possibility that the F-14A might get AiM-9Ls given the trend of giving all-aspect missiles to existing tier 7s and the top planes moved into tier 8. As if the Sparrows and Phoenixes mixed with the radar aren't already terrifying enough, 9Ls would turn that plane into an actual nightmare. That's not event considering the potential future addition of the F-14B which would be even more insane in a dogfight due to its increased low speed/low altitude thrust and AiM-7Ms as well as AiM-9Ms. We are really getting to the point where American and French aircraft become exceedingly scary and I am concerned for the survival of what little balance we have.

[JacK_Qc]

Hopefully your impressions are right and this show is still balanced but it's hard to believe when i see a plane with off boresight missles vs a limited g f16 with fragile wing or 20+ years old planes.

[Ģ◊иℤ◊⚡ℤ∀муpΛй]

The F-16 will win especially after they removed the R-73 now, the MiG-29 is dead on arrival better stay with your MLD since it also has R-60M now dont buy the MiG-29 without its missiles, you may not realized it but the 9-13 is the MiG-29S which even comes with the Vympel R-77 which was not even available on the dev server.

[florble mcfumperdink]

Opprinnelig skrevet av JacK_Qc:

Hopefully your impressions are right and this show is still balanced but it's hard to believe when i see a plane with off boresight missles vs a limited g f16 with fragile wing or 20+ years old planes.

The R-73s that may or may not be implemented (still up in the air) are R-73A's they have very little IRCCM to speak of and what they do have is extremely poor quality. From what I have heard they are quite flare hungry but not so much as standard R-60s. Think somewhere between an R-60M and an AiM-9J: not abysmal but not good.

Also, from what I have seen, the F-16 is extremely difficult if not impossible to rip and its flight model is effectively done. It may need to be sanded how here and there to remove roughage in some places, but overall it's finished. The MiG-29 will likely see some changes such as a reduction in its top speed at sea level and changes in its acceleration. The dev blog indicated that she likes to stay above mach, but if maneuvering, downthrottling, or airbraking causes you to go subsonic her poor throttle response and relatively high weight compared to size drags her down.

Basically, we just have to wait and see, but it doesn't look too terrible right now

[Jaes]

Opprinnelig skrevet av florble mcfumperdink:

Edit: Also we must consider the possibility that the F-14A might get AiM-9Ls given the trend of giving all-aspect missiles to existing tier 7s and the top planes moved into tier 8. As if the Sparrows and Phoenixes mixed with the radar aren't already terrifying enough, 9Ls would turn that plane into an actual nightmare. That's not event considering the potential future addition of the F-14B which would be even more insane in a dogfight due to its increased low speed/low altitude thrust and AiM-7Ms as well as AiM-9Ms. We are really getting to the point where American and French aircraft become exceedingly scary and I am concerned for the survival of what little balance we have.

Ultimately, this is my concern as well. I personally doubt Gaijin will give the F-14A Early AIM-9Ls, they'll stick those on the F-14A "Late" to make you re-grind the same plane with a slightly different loadout

Imagine a plane (F-14B) that's known to outrate F-15A/Cs at low altitudes being introduced to the game. Wtf are you supposed to give to be able to contend with that?

Please, give the MiG-29 R-73 at this rate, it'll be totally fine as long as they start responding to countermeasures lol.

[florble mcfumperdink]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Ģ◊иŽФ⚡∀mηЯΛ¥:

The F-16 will win especially after they removed the R-73 now, the MiG-29 is dead on arrival better stay with your MLD since it also has R-60M now dont buy the MiG-29 without its missiles, you may not realized it but the 9-13 is the MiG-29S which even comes with the Vympel R-77 which was not even available on the dev server.

I have maintained this since people first started talking about Gen 4 jets when we got the F-100 and MiG-19: in order for USSR jets to fully compete with U.S. planes they need their proper armaments as well as the concurrent introduction of the Fulcrum and the Flanker. Those two planes were designed to work together and to have one without the other is just in bad taste frankly.

That being said, the MiG-29 is no slouch, and it should see some improvement in the coming days regarding its performance. I do not think it will be DOA, but its abilities will certainly be reduced.

On a much more terrifying flipside, China is supposed to get an ROC Block 20 F-16 that will get AMRAAMs..... if they are intended to add the AiM-120 in any capacity when we haven't even seen the AiM-7M for the US and a bunch of other radar missiles for other countries, then I will be speechless.

[florble mcfumperdink]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Jaes:

Opprinnelig skrevet av florble mcfumperdink:

Edit: Also we must consider the possibility that the F-14A might get AiM-9Ls given the trend of giving all-aspect missiles to existing tier 7s and the top planes moved into tier 8. As if the Sparrows and Phoenixes mixed with the radar aren't already terrifying enough, 9Ls would turn that plane into an actual nightmare. That's not event considering the potential future addition of the F-14B which would be even more insane in a dogfight due to its increased low speed/low altitude thrust and AiM-7Ms as well as AiM-9Ms. We are really getting to the point where American and French aircraft become exceedingly scary and I am concerned for the survival of what little balance we have.

Ultimately, this is my concern as well. I personally doubt Gaijin will give the F-14A Early AIM-9Ls, they'll stick those on the F-14A "Late" to make you re-grind the same plane with a slightly different loadout :TR:

Imagine a plane (F-14B) that's known to outrate F-15A/Cs at low altitudes being introduced to the game. Wtf are you supposed to give to be able to contend with that?

Please, give the MiG-29 R-73 at this rate, it'll be totally fine as long as they start responding to countermeasures lol.

Yeah, and as terrifying as the B is the D is even more psychotic with the weapons systems and aero improvements. Honestly you are probably right, they will add an F-14A late, but then comes the issue of semantics. Technically, an A-late would be the A+ which was the designation of the A models that were given the GE engines but were missing the minor changes that defined the B. Otherwise they were identical planes. So an A (late) would actually be an A+... which is just a B by another name.

Sweet jesus that's terrifying now that I think about it.

And then we have the massive kettle of fish that is latter F-16 variants and the F-15 as a whole. This isn't even mentioning the Hornet, whose nose-pointing abilities, stall control, maneuvering energy retention, and general aerodynamics basically make it the F-16's cocaine addicted cousin in the Navy.

I agree that they should just add the R-73A now and give the Archer as well as the Lima and Magic II their real life G overloads (42, 45, and 50 respectively) and then continue with plane development. Then, 9M's and 7M's can be introduced for American planes with R-73Ms on Russian planes, beginning with a mid-late nineties version of the Flanker to equal American BVR abilities. Then, after that is all settled introduce the AMRAAM variants (A and B, this game will never be ready for the C versions) and the R-77 as well as equivalents for other countries such as France and Britain.

They probably won't do that though.

[Ģ◊иℤ◊⚡ℤ∀муpΛй]

Opprinnelig skrevet av florble mcfumperdink:

Opprinnelig skrevet av Jaes:

Ultimately, this is my concern as well. I personally doubt Gaijin will give the F-14A Early AIM-9Ls, they'll stick those on the F-14A "Late" to make you re-grind the same plane with a slightly different loadout :TR:

Imagine a plane (F-14B) that's known to outrate F-15A/Cs at low altitudes being introduced to the game. Wtf are you supposed to give to be able to contend with that?

Please, give the MiG-29 R-73 at this rate, it'll be totally fine as long as they start responding to countermeasures lol.

Yeah, and as terrifying as the B is the D is even more psychotic with the weapons systems and aero improvements. Honestly you are probably right, they will add an F-14A late, but then comes the issue of semantics. Technically, an A-late would be the A+ which was the designation of the A models that were given the GE engines but were missing the minor changes that defined the B. Otherwise they were identical planes. So an A (late) would actually be an A+... which is just a B by another name.

Sweet jesus that's terrifying now that I think about it.

And then we have the massive kettle of fish that is latter F-16 variants and the F-15 as a whole. This isn't even mentioning the Hornet, whose nose-pointing abilities, stall control, maneuvering energy retention, and general aerodynamics basically make it the F-16's cocaine addicted cousin in the Navy.

I agree that they should just add the R-73A now and give the Archer as well as the Lima and Magic II that real life G overloads (42, 45, and 50 respectively) and then continue with plane development. Then, 9M's and 7M's can be introduced for american planes with R-73Ms on Russian planes, beginning with a mid-late nineties version of the fulcrum. Then, after that is all settled introduce the AMRAAM variants (A and B, this game will never be ready for the C versions) and the R-77 as well as equivalents for other countries such as France and Britain.

They probably won't do that though.

There is no "R-73A" im not sure who started with this but its spreading like a plaque just like the first MiG-29 it doesnt have a designation.

I dont mind if the Magics get their real G pull i want the game to be as realistic as possible.

[florble mcfumperdink]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Ģ◊иŽФ⚡∀mηЯΛ¥:

Opprinnelig skrevet av florble mcfumperdink:

Yeah, and as terrifying as the B is the D is even more psychotic with the weapons systems and aero improvements. Honestly you are probably right, they will add an F-14A late, but then comes the issue of semantics. Technically, an A-late would be the A+ which was the designation of the A models that were given the GE engines but were missing the minor changes that defined the B. Otherwise they were identical planes. So an A (late) would actually be an A+... which is just a B by another name.

Sweet jesus that's terrifying now that I think about it.

And then we have the massive kettle of fish that is latter F-16 variants and the F-15 as a whole. This isn't even mentioning the Hornet, whose nose-pointing abilities, stall control, maneuvering energy retention, and general aerodynamics basically make it the F-16's cocaine addicted cousin in the Navy.

I agree that they should just add the R-73A now and give the Archer as well as the Lima and Magic II that real life G overloads (42, 45, and 50 respectively) and then continue with plane development. Then, 9M's and 7M's can be introduced for american planes with R-73Ms on Russian planes, beginning with a mid-late nineties version of the fulcrum. Then, after that is all settled introduce the AMRAAM variants (A and B, this game will never be ready for the C versions) and the R-77 as well as equivalents for other countries such as France and Britain.

They probably won't do that though.

There is no "R-73A" im not sure who started with this but its spreading like a plaque just like the first MiG-29 it doesnt have a designation.

I dont mind if the Magics get their real G pull i want the game to be as realistic as possible.

I've always heard the inital production variant referred to as the R-73A, but either way my point stands: initial variant now with the M later when comparable missiles have been added to other countries.

[Ģ◊иℤ◊⚡ℤ∀муpΛй]

Opprinnelig skrevet av florble mcfumperdink:

Opprinnelig skrevet av Ģ◊иŽФ⚡∀mηЯΛ¥:

There is no "R-73A" im not sure who started with this but its spreading like a plaque just like the first MiG-29 it doesnt have a designation.

I dont mind if the Magics get their real G pull i want the game to be as realistic as possible.

I've always heard the inital production variant referred to as the R-73A, but either way my point stands: initial variant now with the M later when comparable missiles have been added to other countries.

no your point does not stand but if you name it wrong whats on your side.

[florble mcfumperdink]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Ģ◊иŽФ⚡∀mηЯΛ¥:

Opprinnelig skrevet av florble mcfumperdink:

I've always heard the inital production variant referred to as the R-73A, but either way my point stands: initial variant now with the M later when comparable missiles have been added to other countries.

no your point does not stand but if you name it wrong whats on your side.

My point was to introduce the initial production variant of the R-73 first and then introduce the improved M variant later. So yes, despite the incorrect nomenclature my point still stands.

[Ģ◊иℤ◊⚡ℤ∀муpΛй]

Opprinnelig skrevet av florble mcfumperdink:

Opprinnelig skrevet av Ģ◊иŽФ⚡∀mηЯΛ¥:

no your point does not stand but if you name it wrong whats on your side.

My point was to introduce the initial production variant of the R-73 first and then introduce the improved M variant later. So yes, despite the incorrect nomenclature my point still stands.

No it does not, and is incorrect.

The initial variant is not A, this might work for american missiles but doesnt go for anything soviet made.

[Lafettie]

There is no Mig-29A. The Mig-29A was a prototype with inferior equipment,that they build,so they have something on hand while all the equipment was already in production and near finishing for the final rollout. It was obsolete.There is no Mig-29A, the sufix is wrong and its just Mig-29 in that case xD

[Andysan]

Can't wait to fly my Chinese F16 lol.