British APDS

[Ahhtaczy]

It seems now since the british have been introduced. The best vehicle designs of world war two are completely useless. Tanks like the Tiger 2 H and IS-3 don't stand a chance if the British tank hits first unless they player in the british are bad. The penetration is overkill and can go through even the mighty IS-3's armor plates in the front, even the turret if one felt like it. The Tiger 2 on the other hand can easily be killed by the turret and lower plate, I could assume the APDS can go through the upper at some degree. Combine this with low battle ratings and you get monster British tanks that can easily kill the enemy their facing without much difficulty. The only way to win a fight is to hit first, if not then your out of luck.

For example:
Charioteer
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=680886419

[Foxtrot39]

United Kingdom a écrit :

hehehe i dont care i play british wait till i get the tortise... i will murder everyone

M60 cupola says no

[Ahhtaczy]

Шогк наяdег Комгдdе☭ a écrit :

RedT3rror a écrit :

British rounds APDS are excellent, even though they suffer rather low damage they have an excellent penetration, are free, rate of fire on those guns is superb and on tier V it's usually about who gets hit first - no matter if go down in 1 or 2 shots. Imho the early arrival of those rounds for the brits seems a little bit over the top.

As in how early they can use them? When you compare the standard AP shells to what they will face, they are often just not enough. Also the fact that the 17 pounder, 77mm OQF Mk.II and to an extent the 20 pounder have quite poor post pen effect compared to a 75mm, 85mm, 88mm, 122mm, etc, I think its fine. I remember using the Comet I durring the CBT and the fragmentation was INSANE with the APDS. I was able to take out T-34-85's via all crew in a single hit to the center of the hull. No way that will happen now though.

The default ap rounds for the 84mm 20pdr are more than enough. You can still engage and penetrate a Tiger 2's turret at 1000m. While the damage is more from the 9kg shell which is more than two times heavier then the APDS. Of course the damage is going to be different for the 88mm and other calibers because they are from different countries and have different guns. Whats the point of all this heavy armor if their is always something going to get through it, you can play a Tiger 2 and be outranged be a british post-war design that beats your tank in all but explosive filler.

[Mohican]

just waiting for him to realise ALMOST THE WHOLE british tank doctorine was speed with a big gun, (Churchill obviously not included for obvious reasons) i mean look at the cromwell fast and armed with a 75mm gun. i mean we got the sherman from the yanks and went 'that gun is rubbish' and mounted a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ 17 pounder to it (the 17 pounder is WIDELY regarded by experts as the best Anti-Tank gun of the war, to put it simply it is regarded as a better gun than the german 88mm) we mounted it on the comet as well - again fast tank not the best armour. we put it on the achilles. it was mounted on the centurion after the war. Read british tank doctrine we literally put our best gun on as many tanks as we could im half suprised we didnt mount it on the cromwell as well.

[Mohican]

oh yes and QF17 PDR the QF stands for quick firing

[Ahhtaczy]

Conor a écrit :

just waiting for him to realise ALMOST THE WHOLE british tank doctorine was speed with a big gun, (Churchill obviously not included for obvious reasons) i mean look at the cromwell fast and armed with a 75mm gun. i mean we got the sherman from the yanks and went 'that gun is rubbish' and mounted a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ 17 pounder to it (the 17 pounder is WIDELY regarded by experts as the best Anti-Tank gun of the war, to put it simply it is regarded as a better gun than the german 88mm) we mounted it on the comet as well - again fast tank not the best armour. we put it on the achilles. it was mounted on the centurion after the war. Read british tank doctrine we literally put our best gun on as many tanks as we could im half suprised we didnt mount it on the cromwell as well.

Are you lost? This is about the British APDS for the 84mm 20pdr. I dont care about the British tank doctorine for world war two for it was mainly just to get through the war and defeat Germany. 17 pdr was a good anti-tank gun for the allies, but its no was no were near the post-war guns that are used on most tier 4 British tanks or the german cannons of world war two. Which is what the discussion is about.

[Katokevin]

Conor a écrit :

just waiting for him to realise ALMOST THE WHOLE british tank doctorine was speed with a big gun, (Churchill obviously not included for obvious reasons) i mean look at the cromwell fast and armed with a 75mm gun. i mean we got the sherman from the yanks and went 'that gun is rubbish' and mounted a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ 17 pounder to it (the 17 pounder is WIDELY regarded by experts as the best Anti-Tank gun of the war, to put it simply it is regarded as a better gun than the german 88mm) we mounted it on the comet as well - again fast tank not the best armour. we put it on the achilles. it was mounted on the centurion after the war. Read british tank doctrine we literally put our best gun on as many tanks as we could im half suprised we didnt mount it on the cromwell as well.

Well, the Comet used a slightly different gun (77mm HV) with a shorter barrel and shorter breech (which did not allow the use of the 17 pounder ammunition). Still a similar gun though.

Conor a écrit :

oh yes and QF17 PDR the QF stands for quick firing

But remember that "quick firing" does not mean to fire the gun fast, but a term that was created when propellent was able to be stored in a brass casing and sealed breech insted of seperate powder or a powder charge loaded behind the projectile. Thats why the L1 on the Conqueror or L11 on the Chieftain are not considered QF (even though the Chieftain can reload very fast for its size of shell) because they are seperate piece ammunition, not 1 piece ammunition.

[Ichigo]

Conor a écrit :

oh yes and QF17 PDR the QF stands for quick firing

buuuut the british were also in the war long enough to figure out the short 75mm on the sherman just wouldnt cut it (dont tell snugginz) with the newer tanks rolling onto the field and the did basically the same as everyone else, find the best gun they have and turn it into a tank gun (like the germans not the RU).
on side note how much crew skill is needed for the archer to be accurate got it mostly upgraded (only engines to go) and it still misses the broad side of the barn door

[Rumpelcrutchskin]

20pdr APDS can easily go through the IS-3 front slope and one-shot the tank, first thing I learned with IS-3 was not to try frontally charge those tanks.

[MinkkyJvezva]

Illusionyary a écrit :

Your point? British rounds were designed to have a high penetration value. The Charioteer's 20 pounder gun (a gun designed to knock out Soviet heavy tanks) with SABOT rounds could penetrate 30cms (300mms) of armour in real life, you're lucky it's only 285 in-game...

It's not just 285 pen ingame but penetration fall of are inaccurate it apds should have 243mm of penetration at 2000yard (1830meters) but ingame at 2000meter it has only 198mm and 1500 meters with 218 penetration .

[Donovar]

Oh no. something thats been happening since the begenning of time. your bring armor we bring something that pens that armor

[MoonPrune]

Donovar a écrit :

Oh no. something thats been happening since the begenning of time. your bring armor we bring something that pens that armor

Not to mention that penetration is the only thing this round really brings to the board; that and insta-ammoracks (if you hit them).

[Donovar]

MoonPrune a écrit :

Donovar a écrit :

Oh no. something thats been happening since the begenning of time. your bring armor we bring something that pens that armor

Not to mention that penetration is the only thing this round really brings to the board; that and insta-ammoracks (if you hit them).

In my case ammo racks never explode in one shot except in german and russian tanks the T29 is the only one that consistantly ammo racks vehics in the american tech line besides the m18