Aimbots

[Basic]

Clearly aim bot usage is rife.

There are multiple videos on YT, and I only started looking into the topic after having a player take out 8-9 of my team, one after another with 1-2 shots each.

Yet any time this comes up in discussion, someone from Gaijin claims they don't exist, then desperately tries to get the video taken down from YT with a copyright claim.

Instead of burying your heads in the sand and sticking your fingers in your ears, will you please actually _do_ something about the problem?

Yet another video showing cheats in use, this one from March this year:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7bT-WFUmlY

Very frustrating that it happens at all, but doubly so when the game developers are more concerned with hushing it up than actually addressing it.

[Basic]

İlk olarak Danny74 tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Basic tarafından gönderildi:

Can you actually explain what you mean by that? Yes, the final hit/miss decision is made by the server. That doesn't mean a client can't make the same calculations. It has all the necessary information

But the values necessary for an aimbot to work like I explained, enemy's speed, direction, etc, are not on your client side.
Like he said, the cheat would need to break into the server every game to make it work.
Which is extremely unlikely, and almost impossible.

Of course they are... How do you think the client is drawing the aircraft if it doesn't know where it is and what its orientation is? Or perhaps you think the server streams full-screen video to every player? (In which case, why do you need a graphics card at all?)

I'd imagine speed is available too but even if it's not, a simple differential of the positions from one frame to the next will handle that for you. Again, it's not hard.

I really wish there was a minimum level of technical competence required to post on things like this.

[anzacloner]

I have had aimbot used against me mainly in RO2 scenarios so why not here.Also I have on occasion come up against this=When I kill enemy soldier I two seconds later die.Same player same result many times.I take into account return fire from other players but when no other players are there its so obvious.Firing thru walls is another obvious one,you will see it happening in battle shots while waiting to spawn.So why cant they be used in this game?

[Basic]

İlk olarak Danny74 tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Basic tarafından gönderildi:

Of course they are... How do you think the client is drawing the aircraft if it doesn't know where it is and what its orientation is? Or perhaps you think the server streams full-screen video to every player? (In which case, why do you need a graphics card at all?)

I'd imagine speed is available too but even if it's not, a simple differential of the positions from one frame to the next will handle that for you. Again, it's not hard.

I really wish there was a minimum level of technical competence required to post on things like this.

The client only receives the final product of the server's own calculations, not the values themselves. For an aimbot to work it would require access to the raw data, to the values the server uses to calculate position, speed etc.

This is why the game has lots of hit registration issues, because most of the times it's overloaded, and hit registration is done by the server, not by the client.

Why would it need "raw data"? As I've said ad nauseam it needs position, speed and orientation. position and orientation have to be sent to the client to render an object on screen. Speed could _potentially_ be withheld (although it would put a burden on the server to have to push plane positions for every frame when the client could make a very good estimate that is corrected by the server as time passes) but even if it isn't sent to the client, it's trivial to calculate.

Can you please explain which part of the above you;re having trouble comprehending?

[kiro the avenger!]

the reason you dont see aimbots is because theyre indistinguishable from a good/lucky player.

thats why i specified i had only seen a couple of people i was 90% was cheating.
all the other crazy shenigans i put down to skill/luck

[kiro the avenger!]

İlk olarak Danny74 tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Basic tarafından gönderildi:

Why would it need "raw data"? As I've said ad nauseam it needs position, speed and orientation. position and orientation have to be sent to the client to render an object on screen. Speed could _potentially_ be withheld (although it would put a burden on the server to have to push plane positions for every frame when the client could make a very good estimate that is corrected by the server as time passes) but even if it isn't sent to the client, it's trivial to calculate.

Can you please explain which part of the above you;re having trouble comprehending?

It would need raw data because all that the client has access to is the encripted coordinates of where it should draw the pixels, and a couple other stuff. However the necessary information to be able to predict where the enemy plane will be in x seconds, which is enemy speed, direction he's traveling, orientation, rudder controls, flaps, etc etc, they are sever sided.

It is not "trivial" to calculate where a plane that travels at 400kmph or more, in a world where you can turn in every possible direction, will be in x seconds, all in a matter of miliseconds. It almost impossible to calculate that in time.

I dont see why you're having such a hard time understanding this.
The closest thing you're getting to an aimbot is the in game lead indicator, which is 90% innacurate.

youre having trouble seeing the aimbot as anything other than an instant garunteed hit in anything other than planes.

may i again point out tanks
slower, often stationary
2D movement
intervening soft cover

[kiro the avenger!]

İlk olarak Danny74 tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak kiro the avenger! tarafından gönderildi:

youre having trouble seeing the aimbot as anything other than an instant garunteed hit in anything other than planes.

may i again point out tanks
slower, often stationary
2D movement
intervening soft cover

No one is talking about tanks here, do you see anyone else other than you talking about tanks?
Your comments have already been ignored several times and you still dont get the message do you?

There are cheats for tanks, I even said that above, Gaijin has admitted and even made an annoucement about it.
However they were not aimbots, they were visual assistence cheats, and indicators that would tell you where the shell would drop. Basically, aim and visual assistence, sort of.
Now shut up with tanks thing.

do you see the title of the thread?
incase you didnt it's aimbots.
aimbots are a bigger issue in tanks.

you dont think there's aimbots in tanks? youre wrong.
i'll see if i can refind that video.
im pretty sure the guy PhlyDaily showed was aimbotting, the only time he ever missed was because the Leo he was shooting at pulled a hard stop. he had exactly where the Leo would have been funnily enough

so no i wont shut up about tanks, im talking about aimbots here.

[kiro the avenger!]

İlk olarak Danny74 tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak kiro the avenger! tarafından gönderildi:

do you see the title of the thread?
incase you didnt it's aimbots.
aimbots are a bigger issue in tanks.

you dont think there's aimbots in tanks? youre wrong.
i'll see if i can refind that video.
im pretty sure the guy PhlyDaily showed was aimbotting, the only time he ever missed was because the Leo he was shooting at pulled a hard stop. he had exactly where the Leo would have been funnily enough

so no i wont shut up about tanks, im talking about aimbots here.

How would an aimbot work in tanks with different and slow turret traverse rates? There is a huge misunderstanding in word "aimbot". Aimbot is something that aims for you automatically, aimbots are obvious when your aim suddenly "snaps" into an enemy, now how would that work in tanks?
There are cheats in tanks but they are visual and aim assistences, not exactly an aimbot.
The reason there are cheats in tanks is because its easier to do an "aimbot/visual guidance" for them as it doesnt require server sided data.

I'm not 100% disagreeing with you, but you need to know what an aimbot is and looks like.
And if you find a video of Phly, then post it here.

phly deleted, or at least unlisted that video.
it was a huge who-ha a while ago, others know what im talking about
he caught and published a cheater. shooting through buildings and forests from kilometers away. stupidly high KDs in every tank, even ones renown for being ♥♥♥♥.

and i would have to disagree.
youre obsessing over aimbots seen in FPSs like CSGO.
just because a turret takes time to align, doesnt mean you cant 'snap' to the enemy, and then wait a second or two.

[Kai]

İlk olarak Danny74 tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Basic tarafından gönderildi:

And here we have someone who's incapable of reasonable discussion, limited to insulting others without adding any value to a thread whatsoever. In other words, the lowest form of internet user.

Oh you want ''reasonable discussion'' then here it is:
Explain to me how would an aimbot work in a game where every plane is unique and behaves differently from another, by having different turn times, roll rates, wing overloads, speed etc etc, how would the aimbot be able to turn and aim equally for every plane?
How would an aimbot work for different cannons and machine guns with different muzzle velocities and bullet droppoffs? How would the aimbot know where to aim specifically? Specially since most cannons in the game aren't 100% accurate, they're far from that actually. How would that work? Explain to me.
This isn't your average FPS shooter where all you have to do is point and click, no, this requires more skill and knowledge of your plane, an aimbot like that is borderline impossible to make.
If the aimbot worked like that, it would rip the wings off of many planes.

All I see in the video above is someone who captured himself playing the game normally and then claims he has hacks to scam people, because if that is an aimbot, then it must be a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ aimbot, since he missed lots of shots throughout the entire video.

So yeah, you're just suffering a small case of noob. I suggest a big dose of l2p sided with a few ''git gud'' pills.


PS: Yes there are cheats in this game, but they are mostly visual assistence cheats, and Gaijin has made an annoucement about that, few professional players were banned because of it.
I highly doubt the average noob like you has access to such cheats. But if you are so keen to try it then go ahead and buy the cheat from that video, then let me know about your finds. You'll probably have your money and your account stolen, but if it happens don't come here and tell us we didn't warn you, because we'll just be laughing our asses off and spamming ''I told you so''.

The programmer making the aimbot would be thorough. Trust me, you don't know much about hackers in general if you think all they do is do simple script cheating in video games.

If one of them thinks it's profitable to make a cheat that people are gullible enough to buy, that's enough incentive for them to put a lot of effort into it.

[Basic]

İlk olarak Danny74 tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Basic tarafından gönderildi:

Why would it need "raw data"? As I've said ad nauseam it needs position, speed and orientation. position and orientation have to be sent to the client to render an object on screen. Speed could _potentially_ be withheld (although it would put a burden on the server to have to push plane positions for every frame when the client could make a very good estimate that is corrected by the server as time passes) but even if it isn't sent to the client, it's trivial to calculate.

Can you please explain which part of the above you;re having trouble comprehending?

It would need raw data because all that the client has access to is the encripted coordinates of where it should draw the pixels, and a couple other stuff. However the necessary information to be able to predict where the enemy plane will be in x seconds, which is enemy speed, direction he's traveling, orientation, rudder controls, flaps, etc etc, they are sever sided.

It is not "trivial" to calculate where a plane that travels at 400kmph or more, in a world where you can turn in every possible direction, will be in x seconds, all in a matter of miliseconds. It almost impossible to calculate that in time.

I dont see why you're having such a hard time understanding this.
The closest thing you're getting to an aimbot is the in game lead indicator, which is 90% innacurate.

The co-ordinates are encrypted now? Why? How? To what purpose? Frankly, you're just desperately grasping at straws. Either the client has the information it requires to show an object on screen or it doesn't. It's binary true/false. We know the client can render objects, so it must have the information required to do so.

Pro tip: "Drawing pixels" is not something the server does. That's what you have graphics cards for. The mesh is loaded into the graphics card and a matrix transformation is used to place it in the world space before the rendering pass.

And yes, it really _is_ trivial. take its current position, take its previous position, draw a line between the two and extend it. There's your most basic possible prediction. Now, let's make it more advanced, take the last 3 (or 5 or 9) positions and calculate a curve of best fit, then extend it. Now we're taking into account turns. By determining how the distance between points changes over time (vector magnitude) we can also determine if the target is accelerating, decelerating or maintaining constant speed. We can also use some domain-specific knowledge to make the prediction even better (eg planes accelerate when pointing down)

Sure, if the target starts a turn after you've fired, you won't take it into account and (might) miss, but that applies to any shot in the game. It doesn't prevent you firing in the perfect direction every time. Plus, your next shot will take the turn into account ...

You clearly have zero technical knowledge. Do you even know basic trigonometry? We learned how to do this when I was 14-15. If you know how to use Sin, Cos and Tan, you can get 90% of the way there. Getting a best-fit curve (say a bezier spline) takes slightly more effort, but only marginally so.

Just because you don't know how to do something, that doesn't automatically mean it's hard, merely that your knowledge is lacking.

Oh and re: the computational difficulty involved... If you've got a 2GHz processor, that's 2 billion clock cycles per second. Depending on the CPU architecture involved, a floating point operation can take up to ~20 cycles (worst case, more often 4-8). That's 100 million mathematical operations per second (or 1.6 million per frame at 60fps). And this is assuming a single core (rare nowadays). Since we're talking about hundreds of flops at most, you can see why I say the calculations are trivial.

But you knew all that, right? Since you're such an authority?

[kiro the avenger!]

İlk olarak Danny74 tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak kiro the avenger! tarafından gönderildi:

phly deleted, or at least unlisted that video.
it was a huge who-ha a while ago, others know what im talking about
he caught and published a cheater. shooting through buildings and forests from kilometers away. stupidly high KDs in every tank, even ones renown for being ♥♥♥♥.

and i would have to disagree.
youre obsessing over aimbots seen in FPSs like CSGO.
just because a turret takes time to align, doesnt mean you cant 'snap' to the enemy, and then wait a second or two.

Shooting through building and forests inst something unheard of in warthunder, I've done it without having any cheat installed, all it takes is changing your graphic quality to Ultra Low, and there you go.

Secondly, it is possible to have an aim assistence that lets you know where the enemies are, specially in arcade, where you already know where everyone is.
However an aimbot is something that does all the job for you, and its something extremely unlikely that there is such thing in a game, where the tanks suspension makes your aim wobble all the time, where the turret traverse rates are really slow.
For the aimbot to work it would also need to know exactly what type of tank the enemy is using and where the shell can penetrate it's armor, it would also need to know every weakspot of every tank in this game.
Which again is almost impossible.

This is why I say that there is only aim and visual assistences, an aim assistence is something that lets you know where the shell will drop or penetrate (using arcade's indicator), and a visual assistence cheat lets you know where the enemy tanks are. They work together to creat one single cheat. But in the end you'll probably still need to know where to aim in order to get a kill.

Lastly, if you really need a visual assistence, turn your graphics on Ultra Low Quality, you'll be shooting many people through buildings, walls, whole forests, mountains etc etc.

buildings do not derender on ULQ
trees do not derender on ULQ, so volokomsk forest is still a visually impenetrable wilderness.
mountains do not derender in ULQ, and you cannot shoot through them.
so randomly deciding to shoot a building in the middle of a game from over 1km away and 'oh how lucky there was a Leo's ammo rack right there' is a tad fishy

again you are obsessing over CS:GO aimbots, ignore the fact that the turret cant instantly move
you didnt seem to get too caught up on this detail for planes? and just accepted that thats what the aimbot says to do

although i agree on the weakspots thing, it doesnt make it impossible.
you could have a thing (regardless of what you call it, i'll call it a kind of aimbot. as its a bot that aimsfor you) where you point at a location on the enemy tank, and the aimbot hits it for you

i have certainly seen videos (including from their perspective) of things i would call aimbots.
because they are bots that aim for you.

but youre right, 'visual cheats' namely marking tanks through terrain are indeed a thing

[kiro the avenger!]

İlk olarak Danny74 tarafından gönderildi:

...

again youre making one critical error
youre assuming that because a plane can turn in 3D they spend every millisecond changing a different direction 3D space.
that isnt how things work.

the lead marker in arcade is crap because it takes the average velocity of your guns and assumes the enemy plane is heading in a straight line at all times, even during turns.
when you have similar velocity guns and theyre flying straight, it's completely accurate

[kiro the avenger!]

İlk olarak Danny74 tarafından gönderildi:

If you look up the definition of an aimbot in the urban dictionary, it will say something like, it's a cheat that aims for you.
If there was something in this game that did that for tanks, like I said above, it would require knowledge of every weakspot for every tank in the game. And it would require knowledge of what type of tank, position and direction your enemy is facing.

What you described is called an aim assistence, basically, it aims at an enemy tank, or at least lets you know where the enemy tank is, but ultimatly, you have to do the rest of the job.

Visual assistences are indeed a thing, and it doesn't even need to be a hack, yes, the ULQ doesn't instantly make buildings and whole forests disappear, but it makes things like bushes, small trees, grass, walls, fences, and destructible huts or shacks disappear at a distance.

But if you really want to know, there used to be a hack for this game, using cheat engine I believe, you could stop buildings from rendering. So that's probably what you saw, someone using a type of hack that would make such things stop rendering.

im not playing dictionary with you.
i stated quite clearly i dont care what you call it, i call it an aimbot because it aims for you with minimal input from yourself.

destructible huts or shacks dont derender.
all it affects is some bushes, some small trees, fences, walls and grass.
shooting someone through a forest as thick as volokomsk's requires cheats.
shooting someone through a building requires cheats regardless of the building

Phly's video definatly showed someone how wasnt rendering objects. i was speculating due to the accuracy the guy was firing at he was also using some form of aimbot.
i have also seen seperate videos, from the perspective of the actual cheater, that was the form of aim bot i was describing, where you point at the tank and it aims at it. this same cheat also marked enemy tanks through the ground and obstacles with red boxes

[kiro the avenger!]

İlk olarak Danny74 tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak kiro the avenger! tarafından gönderildi:

again youre making one critical error
youre assuming that because a plane can turn in 3D they spend every millisecond changing a different direction 3D space.
that isnt how things work.

It is, even the slightest movement a plane does at high speed is enough to make you miss, specially after Tier IV and V.
It's not just about traveling direction, you also need to take into account rudders and flaps, if a plane rolls a bit to the left, or to the right etc. It's complicated to explain this, but I think you get the point.

yes, but youre assuming theyre always doing these turns. if that was the case aimbot or no aimbot noone would hit anything.
often when you hit a plane theyre turning to avoid you, often turning in one smooth movement, because rolling your face across the control surfaces is ineffectual

[Sol]

İlk olarak Danny74 tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak MaximeDelaroux tarafından gönderildi:

Danny, let this be a final warning to you on insulting fellow forumers. I'll have none of that. You could have easily said everything you wanted to minus the insults.

But then it wouldn't be fun would it?

Troll confirmed.

İlk olarak Basic tarafından gönderildi:

Clearly aim bot usage is rife.

There are multiple videos on YT, and I only started looking into the topic after having a player take out 8-9 of my team, one after another with 1-2 shots each.

Yet any time this comes up in discussion, someone from Gaijin claims they don't exist, then desperately tries to get the video taken down from YT with a copyright claim.

Instead of burying your heads in the sand and sticking your fingers in your ears, will you please actually _do_ something about the problem?

Yet another video showing cheats in use, this one from March this year:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7bT-WFUmlY

Very frustrating that it happens at all, but doubly so when the game developers are more concerned with hushing it up than actually addressing it.

Lol, that isn't a cheat, thats a poor show of flying and skill (Bsed on what others have said(. Unless someone actully says otherwise, I'm going to believe that the guy in the vid. managed to get money a shoot.
Similiar to the one by TwilightSparkle in his'her B25 with the cannon, the one that managed to get into the Thunder show.
Auf weidersehn, leuten.

[kiro the avenger!]

İlk olarak Danny74 tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak kiro the avenger! tarafından gönderildi:

the lead marker in arcade is crap because it takes the average velocity of your guns and assumes the enemy plane is heading in a straight line at all times, even during turns.
when you have similar velocity guns and theyre flying straight, it's completely accurate

Actually the lead indicator in arcade does not take into account your weapons, not does it take into account enemy's speed, it only takes into account direction of the enemy and proximity to said enemy.
You can try it while flying a plane with MK108 cannon which are the slowest and heaviest shells in the game, and it will be the same as one with the M3 .50s which are the fastest.

it does take into account your weapons.
fly a plane with MGs and cannons, fire off all your cannons (or MGs) note how the lead marker suddenly jumps?
it does take into account the enemies speed.
play tier 1 and notice how far you lead
now play tier 5 and notice