American 4.7-5.7 BR sucks

[Just Terrible Gameplay]

Can we get some tanks which aren't absolute garbage and also increase the velocity on the M4A1 (76), M4A2 (76) and M4A3 (76) so i don't have to aim 10 metres above someone when they're only 100 metres away ty

[Just Terrible Gameplay]

Escrito originalmente por Tom:

Escrito originalmente por Just Terrible Gameplay:

No actually i just don't use the M18 at all

one of the best vehicles and you just skip it?

I don't play open topped tanks unless it's a SPAA as they get killed easily compared to fully enclosed tanks

[Just Terrible Gameplay]

Escrito originalmente por Anonymous:

The 4.7 is awesome and so is the 5.3, 5.7 is well not that great 5.7 should go down to 5.3 and 6.0 should go down to 5.7.
There's no real reason why a Sherman is at 5.7 and the T20 is at 6.0 and jumbo(76) is at 6.3 those whole brs are just kinda ♥♥♥♥♥♥ for no real reason.

100% agree those tanks need a BR change. The 4.7, 5.3 and 5.7 M4s are the exact same and when i get uptiered to 6.7 it's basically my 4.7 tanks vs everyone elses 6.7s, it's rather silly. Wtf am i supposed to do against a jagdtiger in my 4.7 M4A1???????

[Tom]

Escrito originalmente por Just Terrible Gameplay:

Escrito originalmente por Tom:

one of the best vehicles and you just skip it?

I don't play open topped tanks unless it's a SPAA as they get killed easily compared to fully enclosed tanks

And? It's extremely mobile and has a great gun, if you're playing it right you won't even get hit

[Toblm]

Escrito originalmente por Just Terrible Gameplay:

Escrito originalmente por Anonymous:

The 4.7 is awesome and so is the 5.3, 5.7 is well not that great 5.7 should go down to 5.3 and 6.0 should go down to 5.7.
There's no real reason why a Sherman is at 5.7 and the T20 is at 6.0 and jumbo(76) is at 6.3 those whole brs are just kinda ♥♥♥♥♥♥ for no real reason.

100% agree those tanks need a BR change. The 4.7, 5.3 and 5.7 M4s are the exact same and when i get uptiered to 6.7 it's basically my 4.7 tanks vs everyone elses 6.7s, it's rather silly. Wtf am i supposed to do against a jagdtiger in my 4.7 M4A1???????

M4A1, M4A2 and M4A3 are not the same even thought they may have the same 76 gun.
Engine power is improved over the series, turret rotation is improved, armor layout is improved. Shells are improved.

Now these changes are not linear to their BR increases. The M4A2 76 is worse at its BR then the M4A1 or the M4A3.

The T20 is a slight improvement over the M4A3 in some ways and in some ways its lacking. 6.0 is a fine place for it as its a prototype representing a model somewhere between a Sherman and a T25.

And despite moaning the M4A3E2 preforms just fine 6.3.


Addition: And your M1A1 76 will never encounter a Jagdtiger unless you uptier.
However the tactic is the same for essentially every tank, Sherman or not. Barrel, track, flank.

[Tom]

Escrito originalmente por Toblm:

Escrito originalmente por Just Terrible Gameplay:

100% agree those tanks need a BR change. The 4.7, 5.3 and 5.7 M4s are the exact same and when i get uptiered to 6.7 it's basically my 4.7 tanks vs everyone elses 6.7s, it's rather silly. Wtf am i supposed to do against a jagdtiger in my 4.7 M4A1???????

M4A1, M4A2 and M4A3 are not the same even thought they may have the same 76 gun.
Engine power is improved over the series, turret rotation is improved, armor layout is improved. Shells are improved.

Now these changes are not linear to their BR increases. The M4A2 76 is worse at its BR then the M4A1 or the M4A3.

The T20 is a slight improvement over the M4A3 in some ways and in some ways its lacking. 6.0 is a fine place for it as its a prototype representing a model somewhere between a Sherman and a T25.

And despite moaning the M4A3E2 preforms just fine 6.3.

yeah the Stab is honestly great and singlehandedly makes the tanks good, add to that okish armor and good mobility and you've got a great tank

[highfivingbears]

Escrito originalmente por Toblm:

Escrito originalmente por Just Terrible Gameplay:

100% agree those tanks need a BR change. The 4.7, 5.3 and 5.7 M4s are the exact same and when i get uptiered to 6.7 it's basically my 4.7 tanks vs everyone elses 6.7s, it's rather silly. Wtf am i supposed to do against a jagdtiger in my 4.7 M4A1???????

M4A1, M4A2 and M4A3 are not the same even thought they may have the same 76 gun.
Engine power is improved over the series, turret rotation is improved, armor layout is improved. Shells are improved.

Now these changes are not linear to their BR increases. The M4A2 76 is worse at its BR then the M4A1 or the M4A3.

The T20 is a slight improvement over the M4A3 in some ways and in some ways its lacking. 6.0 is a fine place for it as its a prototype representing a model somewhere between a Sherman and a T25.

And despite moaning the M4A3E2 preforms just fine 6.3.


Addition: And your M1A1 76 will never encounter a Jagdtiger unless you uptier.
However the tactic is the same for essentially every tank, Sherman or not. Barrel, track, flank.

The engine power upgrade is barely better than negligible. 38km/h for the M4A1 76 to 43 km/h for the M4A3 76 is *not* enough to warrant an entire BR bracket's difference. The turret rotation is a good upgrade, but again, not enough to warrant a 5.7 battle rating. The armor layout being improved is literally less than worthless when you're commonly facing Panthers and Soviet 85's. There is no shell that is improved along the course of the 76 Shermans, except for the M4A3 76 getting an APCR shell. Unfortunately, APCR is nigh on useless in War Thunder, so that's worth jack.

Pulling from my personal experience in the Jumbo 76, I have done well in that tank exactly *one* time. One match, out of quite a few. That match happened to be a full downtier, to 5.3. 6.3 is too high for the Jumbo 76. The armor is about as good as wet paper, the mobility is low due to the weight, and the 76mm gun really starts to struggle at that BR.

The reason you'll see the Jumbo 76 having decent stats despite it being laughably outclassed at that BR is because of player performance, not due to the vehicle itself.

[Toblm]

Escrito originalmente por highfivingbears:

The engine power upgrade is barely better than negligible. 38km/h for the M4A1 76 to 43 km/h for the M4A3 76 is *not* enough to warrant an entire BR bracket's difference. The turret rotation is a good upgrade, but again, not enough to warrant a 5.7 battle rating. The armor layout being improved is literally less than worthless when you're commonly facing Panthers and Soviet 85's. There is no shell that is improved along the course of the 76 Shermans, except for the M4A3 76 getting an APCR shell. Unfortunately, APCR is nigh on useless in War Thunder, so that's worth jack.

You said they were the same. They are not and I listed how they are differnt.
That you dont use APCR and seem to insist playing every M4(76) the same might be why they all preform like the 4.7 M4 for you.

Escrito originalmente por highfivingbears:

The reason you'll see the Jumbo 76 having decent stats despite it being laughably outclassed at that BR is because of player performance, not due to the vehicle itself.

Welcome to how BR is determined. Glad you could join the rest of us. Vehicles that over-preform at their BR go up. Vehicles that under-preform at their BR go down.

[highfivingbears]

Escrito originalmente por Toblm:

Escrito originalmente por highfivingbears:

The engine power upgrade is barely better than negligible. 38km/h for the M4A1 76 to 43 km/h for the M4A3 76 is *not* enough to warrant an entire BR bracket's difference. The turret rotation is a good upgrade, but again, not enough to warrant a 5.7 battle rating. The armor layout being improved is literally less than worthless when you're commonly facing Panthers and Soviet 85's. There is no shell that is improved along the course of the 76 Shermans, except for the M4A3 76 getting an APCR shell. Unfortunately, APCR is nigh on useless in War Thunder, so that's worth jack.

You said they were the same. They are not and I listed how they are differnt.
That you dont use APCR and seem to insist playing every M4(76) the same might be why they all preform like the 4.7 M4 for you.

Escrito originalmente por highfivingbears:

The reason you'll see the Jumbo 76 having decent stats despite it being laughably outclassed at that BR is because of player performance, not due to the vehicle itself.

Welcome to how BR is determined. Glad you could join the rest of us. Vehicles that over-preform at their BR go up. Vehicles that under-preform at their BR go down.

You might want to take a look at the usernames. I'm not OP, nor did I say they were the same. I have used APCR, quite a lot, in fact. That's how I know it's such a poor round, especially compared to APHE or APDS.

As for the BR, I think you fail to see that feedback loop you get from determining BR like that. A much more appropriate BR for the Jumbo 76 would be 5.7, or perhaps 6.0 at the highest. However, it being at 6.3 means it is facing tanks that are unarguably much better than it, meaning the only people who regularly play it are skilled players. AKA players who would do well in most any tank.

These players do well (as they would in any tank) and Gaijin sees the tank is doing well, failing to factor in skilled players. Increase in BR/repair cost, which only leads to even better players using it, so on and so forth.

Welcome to how BR is determined, and maybe don't be such a jerk next time you type something on the forums, yeah?

[Toblm]

Escrito originalmente por highfivingbears:

As for the BR, I think you fail to see that feedback loop you get from determining BR like that. A much more appropriate BR for the Jumbo 76 would be 5.7, or perhaps 6.0 at the highest. However, it being at 6.3 means it is facing tanks that are unarguably much better than it, meaning the only people who regularly play it are skilled players. AKA players who would do well in most any tank.

Welcome to how BR is determined, and maybe don't be such a jerk next time you type something on the forums, yeah?

There is a feedback loop. Vehicles that over-preform at their BR go up. Vehicles that under-preform at their BR go down. If the Jumbo 76 truly overtiered it will come back down, eventually. Statistics will show that it under-preforms at 6.3 if it actually under-preforms at 6.3.

There are some tanks a Jumbo 76 face that are better than it sure. There are also tanks that are significantly worse than it. It plays fine at 6.3. You have to be a little smarter about what you are doing than at 5.7, sure but that isnt the end of the world either. To be effective in any of the Sherman hulls you need to play smarter than the German or Russian equivalents.

Moral of the story there isnt a damn thing wrong with 4.7-5.3 US Ground.

[MAG]

Escrito originalmente por Just Terrible Gameplay:

Escrito originalmente por Tom:

one of the best vehicles and you just skip it?

I don't play open topped tanks unless it's a SPAA as they get killed easily compared to fully enclosed tanks

literal skill issue

[Tralalero Tralala]

Escrito originalmente por Just Terrible Gameplay:

Escrito originalmente por Tom:

one of the best vehicles and you just skip it?

I don't play open topped tanks unless it's a SPAA as they get killed easily compared to fully enclosed tanks

Alternative title: I play a light tank like a medium or a heavy and get killed

[Rose]

Escrito originalmente por Just Terrible Gameplay:

Escrito originalmente por Tom:

one of the best vehicles and you just skip it?

I don't play open topped tanks unless it's a SPAA as they get killed easily compared to fully enclosed tanks

😂 Complains about the BR being bad but doesn't play one of the best tanks in that bracket because it's open top

[Neckstabba]

Escrito originalmente por Rose:

Escrito originalmente por Just Terrible Gameplay:

I don't play open topped tanks unless it's a SPAA as they get killed easily compared to fully enclosed tanks

😂 Complains about the BR being bad but doesn't play one of the best tanks in that bracket because it's open top

My thoughts. M18 might die to MG's but even then its so fast it imbues the enemy with rage and hatred by how quick you are in position to beat their cheeks.

[Rose]

Escrito originalmente por IR9 Andyflosse:

Escrito originalmente por Rose:

😂 Complains about the BR being bad but doesn't play one of the best tanks in that bracket because it's open top

My thoughts. M18 might die to MG's but even then its so fast it imbues the enemy with rage and hatred by how quick you are in position to beat their cheeks.

Right?? Things speed
You can usually get to a spot and pick off 2-3 or more tanks before you even get hit/shot at once

[Omega Sirius]

You play those shermans as a support role. Just stick behind your allies.