Tactical bush simulator

[CrabNicholson]

After the 100th time failing to see an enemy tank sitting in plain sight covered in bush camo, I decided if you can't beat em, join em, and became a bush myself. But as I was decking out my tanks in camo, my heart sank at how lame this was, both from a sportsmanship perspective, and from a visual perspective: instead of driving cool metal behemoths, now I drive indistinct leafy blobs.

If I move on to higher tiers, will it just be bushes with guns fighting bushes with guns from now on? Will I ever see another tank ever again?

[hsf_]

Publicado originalmente por CrabNicholson:

After the 100th time failing to see an enemy tank sitting in plain sight covered in bush camo, I decided if you can't beat em, join em, and became a bush myself. But as I was decking out my tanks in camo, my heart sank at how lame this was, both from a sportsmanship perspective, and from a visual perspective: instead of driving cool metal behemoths, now I drive indistinct leafy blobs.

If I move on to higher tiers, will it just be bushes with guns fighting bushes with guns from now on? Will I ever see another tank ever again?

Bushes are not as effective in the higher tiers due to thermal vision optics.

[Slyke]

Those who put pubes on their faces just to blend in are inconsequential. What's truly lame is trying to hide your weakspots or completely obscure the tank so that it's impossible to tell turret cheek from driver's buttock.

I don't pay much attention to bushes, but I'd say they are present at all BRs. They start to somewhat fade away once you hit thermals and laser rangefinders, but never fully disappear.

[amebapiko]

u actually spent cash on pixel bushes in a game?

[Fiona]

If you want to try hard MLG master level, try bushing up like a BT7 or something and go into a sub 2.0 tier battle. Then if you are lucky and get dropped in something like poland, then it's just a stomp.

[MaDeuce]

You have problems with bushes because you don't know the maps.
Fix the map knowledge problem and the bush problem will fix itself.

[Skaldy]

Long term solution: hurt gaijin bank account so hard they will decide to fix the damn game
Short term: join pay2win crew and add another year to "no hackers here just bugs" timer

[MaDeuce]

Publicado originalmente por Elysa:

Publicado originalmente por MaDeuce:

You have problems with bushes because you don't know the maps.
Fix the map knowledge problem and the bush problem will fix itself.

What the ♥♥♥♥ ? Do you remember every bush on every map ? If so, go out and touch some grass or something.

Why would you need to remember every bush on every map? There are only a handful of positions worth playing on every map, and it doesn't matter if they're covered in bushes or not. The spaces in between those position are vulnerable, and if you can't determine that a bush moving at 40kmh might be a tank, then damn you got other problems.

[mogami_99]

Everyone of my ground vehicles has 6 bushes. My kill ratio is 2+ deaths per 1 kill on my best vehicle. Of course I am not a lurker who sits still. My philosophy is to go for the objectives and the vehicles I use the most are tanks designed to move to objectives. But what I find interesting is the objections toward people who use camouflage for what it is designed for. To break up the outline and cover weak points. It costs less then 12 dollars to get the 6 bushes if you don't get the free ones (If your purpose is to cover weak points then you don't need all 6) If your in a tiny no Armour vehicle then your only real advantage is to sit still and be a shrub. I've been killed many times by things like ASU-57 that I just drove by but viewing the kill cam I should have been more alert (I just go KEK when this happens) (they usually are dead very soon after killing me by a team mate following. ) So while I feel for people who get whacked by a shrub I think it is a valid play style. Eternal vigilance is the price of safety.

[shadain597]

I have to say, I would prefer if bushes weren't a thing at all in the game, but I'd settle for limitations on how much can be placed; it's absurd that you can turn some vehicles into a giant bush with barely an inch of metal showing.

For the "but muh realism!" complaints, I don't think it's terribly realistic to see those things flying around at 70km/h or shooting with all of their optics completely obscured. Beyond that, I just don't see it as beneficial to the game; it's a bit like premium add-on armor or ammo that can eventually be acquired through grinding. Yes, technically, you can make do without it, but there's pressure to use it to stay competitive, especially in some vehicles with painful weakspots.

[mogami_99]

Publicado originalmente por shadain597:

I have to say, I would prefer if bushes weren't a thing at all in the game, but I'd settle for limitations on how much can be placed; it's absurd that you can turn some vehicles into a giant bush with barely an inch of metal showing.

For the "but muh realism!" complaints, I don't think it's terribly realistic to see those things flying around at 70km/h or shooting with all of their optics completely obscured. Beyond that, I just don't see it as beneficial to the game; it's a bit like premium add-on armor or ammo that can eventually be acquired through grinding. Yes, technically, you can make do without it, but there's pressure to use it to stay competitive, especially in some vehicles with painful weakspots.

I think your making the point in favor of the bushes. They don't help when your moving and some vehicles need them to stay competitive. I have been killed many more times by a bush then my bushes have granted me a kill. I think if you looked you would find WW2 vehicles covered in bushes. The higher BR they don't really help because of the thermal sights. I can't prove a negative but my guess from my own experience is that the bush that killed me would have killed me if it had neon lights flashing overhead because I wasn't even looking in their direction. Perhaps just a simple increase in spawn cost to field bushes would compensate in some measure. (Team loses a few more tickets)
I don't find this a hill worth dying on. I do like shrubs on my tanks but I can't say they actually have ever helped me.

[Swag Messiah]

In this topic we see the duality of the war thunder player.

1. I want a way to make it so that I get more kills because the game sucks when you're farmed in uptiers.

2. Bushes should be removed because it's too hard to see people.


First, open your eyes. It's not hard to spot bush tanks with the exception of a few small tanks. You also have at least a coaxial gun and should use it liberally to spot.

Publicado originalmente por Elysa:

Publicado originalmente por MaDeuce:

You have problems with bushes because you don't know the maps.
Fix the map knowledge problem and the bush problem will fix itself.

What the ♥♥♥♥ ? Do you remember every bush on every map ? If so, go out and touch some grass or something.

Very brave statement. Stunningly brave. It's not hard to know places where bush tanks are likely to camp. There's maybe 3-4 spots per map, and only on some maps, where they're truly effective.

Publicado originalmente por Curst:

Those who put pubes on their faces just to blend in are inconsequential. What's truly lame is trying to hide your weakspots or completely obscure the tank so that it's impossible to tell turret cheek from driver's buttock.

I don't pay much attention to bushes, but I'd say they are present at all BRs. They start to somewhat fade away once you hit thermals and laser rangefinders, but never fully disappear.

Another brave statement. Covering your weakpoints is called being competitive. It prevents me from getting randomly ammo racked by some ♥♥♥♥ tier wehraboos who just points at the nearest tank and shoots. It forces the other guy to stop and think and since I spend the time to know the weak spots of what im facing that's an advantage I like to use.

Publicado originalmente por amebapiko:

u actually spent cash on pixel bushes in a game?

$10 on a few bushes isn't what I'd consider "actually spending cash". I spend this much on a single beer and the beer doesn't even hide my weak spots.

[mogami_99]

$10 on a few bushes isn't what I'd consider "actually spending cash". I spend this much on a single beer and the beer doesn't even hide my weak spots.

KEK

[MADX0]

Publicado originalmente por shadain597:

I have to say, I would prefer if bushes weren't a thing at all in the game, but I'd settle for limitations on how much can be placed; it's absurd that you can turn some vehicles into a giant bush with barely an inch of metal showing.

For the "but muh realism!" complaints, I don't think it's terribly realistic to see those things flying around at 70km/h or shooting with all of their optics completely obscured. Beyond that, I just don't see it as beneficial to the game; it's a bit like premium add-on armor or ammo that can eventually be acquired through grinding. Yes, technically, you can make do without it, but there's pressure to use it to stay competitive, especially in some vehicles with painful weakspots.

It is limited now, before you could buy and place 6 of the same model, now is 1 of each model.

And the realism with bushes is a bit poor, you cant place them on the cannon, the first place anyone would place them, only the Bkan has a camo of sorts on the cannon only...
I use bushes to conceal my vehicle silhouette and weakspots, the few seconds an enemy loses trying to identify my vehicle and locate a weakspot, are worth it. It aint our fault Gaijin added bushes. Blame them, not us for using a feature... also anyone can get bushes for "free" by grind several hours with some pieces of your soul and get warbonds and hope getting the one you wanted.

[shadain597]

Publicado originalmente por mogami_99:

I think if you looked you would find WW2 vehicles covered in bushes. The higher BR they don't really help because of the thermal sights.

AFAIK the only times tanks IRL got completely covered in bushes, similar to some of the stuff seen in-game, is when they were basically static defenses in ambush locations, presumably because it's hard to get several trees worth of foliage to stay tied down to a fast moving vehicle. And yes, a moving bush is a suspicious object, but a bush that races to a point in the treeline and is "set up" the moment they stop moving is a different story.

As for thermals. . . You do realize a majority of the matches in WT are going to happen at BRs where NVDs of any kind are rare, right?

Publicado originalmente por MADX0:

I use bushes to conceal my vehicle silhouette and weakspots, the few seconds an enemy loses trying to identify my vehicle and locate a weakspot, are worth it. It aint our fault Gaijin added bushes. Blame them, not us for using a feature... also anyone can get bushes for "free" by grind several hours with some pieces of your soul and get warbonds and hope getting the one you wanted.

And there it is, the biggest issue: concealment armor. Sometimes it's hard to even tell if the vehicle has a turret or casemate, much less what vehicle it is or where its weakspots might be. And, in case you didn't notice, I haven't been calling anyone unkind names in the thread. I'm aware of the fact that Gaijin is ultimately to blame for giving players a tool that they then used. Oh, and I already mentioned in my post that technically a player can grind to get bushes too, though it's quite a challenge for a casual player.

Like I said, while I would prefer removing bushes from the game entirely, or maybe limited use in Sim, I think the better compromise would be to reduce the sheer amount of coverage you can get with them.

[MADX0]

Publicado originalmente por shadain597:

Like I said, while I would prefer removing bushes from the game entirely, or maybe limited use in Sim, I think the better compromise would be to reduce the sheer amount of coverage you can get with them.

You cant abuse bushes as much in SB, there bushes WILL block your view, gunner, driver, commander, binos. So placement is quite the challenge.
But you do get the point (unlike some) that bushes aint that much for hidding but confusing your opponents.
Like this, most players will think this is a regular H1 and shoot the hull with double the armor while ignoring those 80mm weakspots.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2702648558
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2702648610