Being forced to play Naval battles is an annoying way of tormenting the fanbase.

[Graephen]

Why do ships peek corners like they're tanks?
Why am I capturing meaningless buoy circles in a cruiser?
Where are some actual Airbattle-esque ground targets for Battleships to bombard?
Where are some river maps for armored and early-game ships?
Speaking of armored boats, why are there so few WW1 ships?
Why are there so few ships in general?
Why is it impossible to be stealthy in Naval RB?
Why are Soviet boats literal tanks and tiny as hell to top-it-off?

How uselful are mines? Both teams start at a similar distance from one another, with no different spawns aside from big ship/small ship. Nobody is gonna pass an area you've mined, ever, and you will not get a killl because there is a big shining red warning on your screen showing you where the mines are. Provided you'd actually manage to get to an area to mine-up without getting shot-up.

Why are some rank I ships actually better and faster, than later torpedo boats? Someone has forgotten to take speed into account when balancing again. I am looking at you LS-3.
Speaking of overpowered speedy-boats with lasercannons - WHY is there a modern ships with a gatling gun fighting WWII ships? Is it really worth it to get a few people to pay 60€ for that BS to ruin nearly the entire gamemode, for everboydy who doesen't?

Why do Germans get the best things again? The damn ferries are supposed to be fragile, but they are the equivalent of a superheavy tank with multiple turrets, that is impervious to even high-calibre shells!

Why can't I use rank III planes with rank III vessels?
Why are there so few Naval-oriented planes?
Why do most ships have access to orbital artillery beacons?
Why are torpedoes next to useless, while bombs obliterate most ships even on near-misses?
On the other hand - why does having my gunners set to AA mean I automatically obliterate any nearby playe planes, provided I have a decent armament?
Where did French Navy go? Is it scuttled in a port somewhere again?
Why are there depth charges, when there's no submarines? Who's stupid enough to drive behind a sub-chaser? Seriously - the last BP challenge with the depth charge damage was beyond painful to do. It isn't fun.
Where is sonar?
Where are the waves?
Where is the fun?

And the most important question; Why do folks at Gaijin even waste server-power and resources on an unifnished gamemode, that nobody plays and hogs the servers with having to control bots?

So many questions, so little time to play a useless gamemode in an otherwise pretty fun game.

[ulzgoroth]

I give...a few points. Mostly in partial credit. Naval is my favorite mode at present but it's certainly got flaws. Some of them even might have solutions.

I hate naval corner-peeking too. Though it is amusing how often people do it uselessly - corner-peeking behind a sandbar that barely covers your hull means everybody can still shoot over it and hit you. Capturing circles, well, what objectives do you want? It seems to me that that's better than the alternatives they've tried, though the 'sink NPC ships' maps do have some amusement value.

Land bombardment targets: that would be deeply uninteresting? Also, I assume battleships aren't actually relevant to you. So far they aren't to me either, I'm not running anything above BR 5.0 in naval currently.

Some river or lake maps could be cool, but a river at least would need to be clever - just making the map basically a single narrow lane isn't unrealistic but would probably not be fun. Also I bet they didn't want to implement currents. Heck, they haven't implemented wind, have they?

WWI ships: Not against more of them at all, but War Thunder isn't a WWI game. So I wouldn't especially expect it. Some would stack up really badly. WWI destroyers, in particular, would often be indistinguishable from sub chasers. And you'd see a lot more 'literally no AA defense' cases.

So few ships: more would be good. Not sure it hurts the mode but do want. Question your bringing the complaint that they haven't put a lot more resources into a mode you don't want to interact with though!

Impossible to be stealthy: Do you only play ground RB and sim battles? Naval RB is closer to stealth-friendly than any AB mode or air RB. That said it does seem like the reason for the main limitation on stealth is that they needed target selection to support their weapon aiming system. TBH I'd say often it's more possible to be stealthy than it should be - a ship has lots of lookouts spotting things, and they do spot things and call them out, but they don't tell the player where they are, so actually finding the boat or plane you were warned about can take an unreasonable amount of time. Also hiding behind land masses can provide 'hard' stealth and break fire control tracking.

Soviet floating tanks: They actually existed, so of course War Thunder put them in. What else is there to say? Most of them are so small they become nearly useless when there are waves, which is interesting if not exactly fun. In most cases they're not too hard to kill either, though a few can be annoying depending on what you're operating.

Mines: I don't think I've ever been hurt by them. I've gotten a couple kills with the air-dropped ones but that was dropping them right in the target's path, not laying a minefield. I'm dubious of the overall utility too. In RB they don't get marked until you're fairly close though, so it's imaginable to hit them, and it certainly is possible to lay them in a place the enemy will want to go.

LS-3: you may have a fair question about coastal balancing of speed but the little pest isn't really overpowered. It's mostly good as a point-capture boat to include in a lineup I think. Better than the soviet counterpart though.

Sparverio types: yeah they're a bit obnoxious, though they're also not very hard to destroy, especially with blue-water ships. Target them ASAP and kill them!

Ferries: A little? The SF40 ferries are scary but not actually all that hard to take down, and their immobility is a huge problem for them (I've played the things too). I've found the AF ferries bizarrely hard to kill with destroyer artillery recently though. They do provide valuable coastal-tier torpedo targets.

You can use rank 3 planes with rank 3 vessels. Are you complaining that the BRs don't line up? Plane being lower BR doesn't really matter, plane being too high in coastal might since you won't get mission credits from a rank 2 plane.

Which naval-oriented planes are you feeling the lack of? For the most part ground-based fighter-bombers work nicely in naval modes. Unsurprisingly, the US, UK, and Japan have a lot more naval aircraft than anyone else. If you're focusing or air-drop torpedoes, US and Japan are pretty definitely the best, though there's a good US-sourced premium in the UK tree.

I believe only coastal units have artillery call, and for the same reason that most tanks do?

Torpedoes are actually quite useful. And are a sizable portion of why people hide behind land all the time, so they don't have to think about them. Also can make beautiful kills when a blue-water gun battle gets to excessively close range. (I once got two torpedo kills in a cruiser that only mounts three fixed torpedoes per side.) Air drop torpedoes, however, do suffer some. In general, because you've got one plane usually with one torpedo for weapons that should be dropped in a spread by an entire squadron. In particular, because you're probably playing with mostly destroyers and/or boats, which are the absolute worst targets. They'll usually see the attack coming and dodge, and you have no aim predictor assistance, so you have to drop very close rather than using the torpedo's multi-km range, so you fly into the AA on a vulnerable drop profile and likely die. Larger ships can be effectively targeted from a bit further out though they do of course usually have even more AA. In AB with airborne reload maybe you could spam long-range torpedo shots from outside effective AA range though?

Bombs don't obliterate ships unless delivered accurately IME.

Ship AA: because that's what ship AA does? Flying is still manageable and effective though. I can fairly often make two kills with a plane using one half-ton bomb each and survive to go reload. In RB.

French navy: do want. I mean, they'll have tech tree holes again but what else is new.

Depth charges: yeah, seem pretty dumb and always have. If you had to use them I'd probably suggest doing so on one of the PT boats that can get them and dropping them right up against the side of destroyers. Maybe they implemented them for sub purposes before giving up on making the subs workable? IDK.

What do you even want to do with sonar, seeing as there are no subs?

If you played Soviet or Japanese river boats, you would not be asking where the waves are. Occasionally they're choppy enough to mess with the aim of even US PT boats. Obviously in reality they could be a lot more than that, but having player vessels killed by weather doesn't seem to be a thing War Thunder wants.


Despite people who don't play it loving to say nobody plays it, there is definitely a naval RB playerbase. And from my unscientific sampling a larger one for AB (ick, but whatever). That's before the people forced in by the battlepass.



As for getting torpedo kills, there's a easy if slow formula that will definitely work: get tier 3 destroyers with long-running torpedoes. Dump those at the start of the round across an area enemy ships will traverse. Possibly use 4m depth stroke, though I'm not sure that's worth it. Expect to randomly score kills on the unwary well after you die. Torpedo bombing, hunting ships from boats, or close-range destroyer (or cruiser) torpedo attacks could get kills faster, but just using them as the saturation weapons they are is low-effort and does work.

Bonus: for whatever reason Gaijin hasn't murdered the SL economy of naval, so you'll be able to collect some much-needed currency while you're at it.

[Graephen]

引用自 ~$$~ BlackCatTheGreat ♣♣：

naval pretty epic. Also buying battlepass is an irregular thought pattern so might be something wrong there.

I bought it twice and passed all of them, except the one with the Centurion, for free :D

[CharChar]

Once you get to 5.0, things start to change. Low tier is weird; very much like tanks. Higher tier it becomes its own thing. You'll figure it out.

[Graephen]

引用自 256_Swerve：

I've played a fair bit of naval so I didn't find this challenge difficult BUT you need to know what you're doing, find an approach that you can make work and stick to it.

I got the first 4 kills in RB but I found that too unreliable and time consuming (10 matches for 4 kills) so I switched to AB and got the final 6 in about 4 matches.

AB method - Primarily choose a rank 3 coastal that is speedy and has 4 torps. On spawn head towards mid map or bluewater side, look for island cover that gives edge views of likely contested spaces or enemy routes. Pop out, fire all torps in a spread across the target area or at any target ships. Do this quickly, then retreat back to cover to rearm. Rinse and repeat.

I used the following line ups:

USA
PT-658 from this Battlepass season, with backups.
USS Barker bluewater. Didn't use it much, there for padding

Great Britain
Dark Aggressor
SGB Grey Goose, SGB Grey Fox

I didn't need to use the SGBs that much got all my kills with the Aggressor. Had torp planes in both line ups but only got an assist from a torp hit.

I see a problem with that build, as a few of those ships are rank II.

引用自 Shillelagh：

引用自 Graephen：

It is because of people like you, that Gaijin and similar can afford to do things this sloppily.

Cool, if I enjoy a game I'm. an issue. Makes sense.

I think you misunderstood that on a purpose. You wouldn't be mad if they had improved Naval battles, would you? So try to apply some pressure.


Since you put so much effort in replying to the post, I have to give it back :D
Replied to every one of your responses with my opinions. Used closed captions to mark them.

引用自 ulzgoroth：

I give...a few points. Mostly in partial credit. Naval is my favorite mode at present but it's certainly got flaws. Some of them even might have solutions.

I hate naval corner-peeking too. Though it is amusing how often people do it uselessly - corner-peeking behind a sandbar that barely covers your hull means everybody can still shoot over it and hit you. Capturing circles, well, what objectives do you want? It seems to me that that's better than the alternatives they've tried, though the 'sink NPC ships' maps do have some amusement value.

[Capturing circles with huge ships makes no sense, makes everybody cluster together to be hit with an orbital laser strike, or a bomber and ruins the fluidity of the match with ships, since with bigger ships, you have to stop your engines. It is a bad idea and lazily implemented as welll.]

Land bombardment targets: that would be deeply uninteresting? Also, I assume battleships aren't actually relevant to you. So far they aren't to me either, I'm not running anything above BR 5.0 in naval currently.

[Because they are UNFUN. That is the main point of my post - Naval isn't fun, especially at higher tiers. Try to use your imagination with the ground targets - could especially be used in the river maps. These could range from wide city and battlefield areas, to "precision targets", which would give more score and credits. Way more interesting, than capturing buoy circles and you have to actually use your ship's firepower to do them. Add-in ground forces fighting among each-other and maybe combine it with some capturable objectives on sea, but not too many of them and BOOM - WAY more interesting. Again. Also fights the peeking a bit.]

Some river or lake maps could be cool, but a river at least would need to be clever - just making the map basically a single narrow lane isn't unrealistic but would probably not be fun. Also I bet they didn't want to implement currents. Heck, they haven't implemented wind, have they?

[That would make the maps even more interesting - currents! I'd imagine river maps at their delta, or wide rivers and coastal areas full of cliffs and rock outcroppings for lowtiers, where people can chase eachother in fast boats and Armored Boats finally get to shine, with their underpowered guns. Also, more could be added from WWI.]

WWI ships: Not against more of them at all, but War Thunder isn't a WWI game. So I wouldn't especially expect it. Some would stack up really badly. WWI destroyers, in particular, would often be indistinguishable from sub chasers. And you'd see a lot more 'literally no AA defense' cases.

[WT isn't a WWI game? Say what? Do you know how many WWI designs are implemented here? I'd say it's at least 10%, if not more. Don't make me name vehicles. We have WWI vehicles, Interwar period, WWII, Cold War and Modern Era stuff already ingame. Yes, WWI ships would be placed lower in BR, that means other ships can go higher, so that they can be used with Rank III planes. Big brain time.]

So few ships: more would be good. Not sure it hurts the mode but do want. Question your bringing the complaint that they haven't put a lot more resources into a mode you don't want to interact with though!



Impossible to be stealthy: Do you only play ground RB and sim battles? Naval RB is closer to stealth-friendly than any AB mode or air RB. That said it does seem like the reason for the main limitation on stealth is that they needed target selection to support their weapon aiming system. TBH I'd say often it's more possible to be stealthy than it should be - a ship has lots of lookouts spotting things, and they do spot things and call them out, but they don't tell the player where they are, so actually finding the boat or plane you were warned about can take an unreasonable amount of time. Also hiding behind land masses can provide 'hard' stealth and break fire control tracking.

[Yes, I believe I am incredibly stealthy with AI gunners auto-detecting me.]

Soviet floating tanks: They actually existed, so of course War Thunder put them in. What else is there to say? Most of them are so small they become nearly useless when there are waves, which is interesting if not exactly fun. In most cases they're not too hard to kill either, though a few can be annoying depending on what you're operating.

[At least half of them are severly under-BR'd and are frustrating to play-against for new players.]

Mines: I don't think I've ever been hurt by them. I've gotten a couple kills with the air-dropped ones but that was dropping them right in the target's path, not laying a minefield. I'm dubious of the overall utility too. In RB they don't get marked until you're fairly close though, so it's imaginable to hit them, and it certainly is possible to lay them in a place the enemy will want to go.

[Possible? Yes. Feasible? No.]

LS-3: you may have a fair question about coastal balancing of speed but the little pest isn't really overpowered. It's mostly good as a point-capture boat to include in a lineup I think. Better than the soviet counterpart though.

[Cap rushing! Thanks for mentioning another problem with this, I'll write that down.]

Sparverio types: yeah they're a bit obnoxious, though they're also not very hard to destroy, especially with blue-water ships. Target them ASAP and kill them!

[Meanwhile, coastal ships can get ♥♥♥♥♥♥. Nice.]

Ferries: A little? The SF40 ferries are scary but not actually all that hard to take down, and their immobility is a huge problem for them (I've played the things too). I've found the AF ferries bizarrely hard to kill with destroyer artillery recently though. They do provide valuable coastal-tier torpedo targets.

[You will not get within 1km of that ferry, unless the player is braindead. Have you ever been on such a ferry? I have. The type is mostly used on rivers and coastlines, that is why it is so slow and that's where it should stay. The addition of waves would fix this, as would making them more brittle - HE hits in the middle? It should fall-apart.]

You can use rank 3 planes with rank 3 vessels. Are you complaining that the BRs don't line up? Plane being lower BR doesn't really matter, plane being too high in coastal might since you won't get mission credits from a rank 2 plane.

[Yes, because you cannot use a rank III plane with a rank III ship, because rank III planes generally aren't 2.3 BR, jesus... To explain further - that means you'll either use a rank II plane, being unable to complete missions and earning basically nothing with it, or you'll fight ships 1 whole BR above you. Pick. Pain or pain?]

Which naval-oriented planes are you feeling the lack of? For the most part ground-based fighter-bombers work nicely in naval modes. Unsurprisingly, the US, UK, and Japan have a lot more naval aircraft than anyone else. If you're focusing or air-drop torpedoes, US and Japan are pretty definitely the best, though there's a good US-sourced premium in the UK tree.

[Count how many torpedo-bombers the Soviets have. Also count how many of them are rank III, which is generally the requirement to complete any mission. I'll wait.]

I believe only coastal units have artillery call, and for the same reason that most tanks do?

[On SOME costal units it makes sense. But where does the artillery come from, when the Battleships is already being piloted by another player? It makes no sense and ruins some aspects of the gamemode, since unlike in tank RB, artillery in Naval is a literal orbital bombardement.]

Torpedoes are actually quite useful. And are a sizable portion of why people hide behind land all the time, so they don't have to think about them. Also can make beautiful kills when a blue-water gun battle gets to excessively close range. (I once got two torpedo kills in a cruiser that only mounts three fixed torpedoes per side.) Air drop torpedoes, however, do suffer some. In general, because you've got one plane usually with one torpedo for weapons that should be dropped in a spread by an entire squadron. In particular, because you're probably playing with mostly destroyers and/or boats, which are the absolute worst targets. They'll usually see the attack coming and dodge, and you have no aim predictor assistance, so you have to drop very close rather than using the torpedo's multi-km range, so you fly into the AA on a vulnerable drop profile and likely die. Larger ships can be effectively targeted from a bit further out though they do of course usually have even more AA. In AB with airborne reload maybe you could spam long-range torpedo shots from outside effective AA range though?

[Yeah, but that is also ineffective as all hell. This is broken, until torpedoes in RB are made faster and ships lose AI gunners, or AI gunners get nerfed to hell. You should have to man those guns to protect yourself, though, just like AI gunners were a problem in Air RB before.]

Bombs don't obliterate ships unless delivered accurately IME.



Ship AA: because that's what ship AA does? Flying is still manageable and effective though. I can fairly often make two kills with a plane using one half-ton bomb each and survive to go reload. In RB.

[Agreed here, bombing is great with planes, but try using torpedoes, or big naval planes, which are currently useless.]

French navy: do want. I mean, they'll have tech tree holes again but what else is new.

[Sekrit dokuments. Also, they have been promising it for a full year by now.]

Depth charges: yeah, seem pretty dumb and always have. If you had to use them I'd probably suggest doing so on one of the PT boats that can get them and dropping them right up against the side of destroyers. Maybe they implemented them for sub purposes before giving up on making the subs workable? IDK.

[Exactly. That's around the time they gave up on Naval almost completely and used it as a money bait with the PG02 Sparviero ships.]

What do you even want to do with sonar, seeing as there are no subs?

[Sonar should be used to spot mines, there shouldn't be a red flag warning you of them and you can only use it in pulses and it does have a cooldown. Subs should definitely be a thing, but I can see the problem with them.]

If you played Soviet or Japanese river boats, you would not be asking where the waves are. Occasionally they're choppy enough to mess with the aim of even US PT boats. Obviously in reality they could be a lot more than that, but having player vessels killed by weather doesn't seem to be a thing War Thunder wants.




Despite people who don't play it loving to say nobody plays it, there is definitely a naval RB playerbase. And from my unscientific sampling a larger one for AB (ick, but whatever). That's before the people forced in by the battlepass.

[The playerbase is extremely small in comparison to the entire game without Naval. I am not saying it doesen't exist, but it definitely is a weight on the servers and nothing more.]


As for getting torpedo kills, there's a easy if slow formula that will definitely work: get tier 3 destroyers with long-running torpedoes. Dump those at the start of the round across an area enemy ships will traverse. Possibly use 4m depth stroke, though I'm not sure that's worth it. Expect to randomly score kills on the unwary well after you die. Torpedo bombing, hunting ships from boats, or close-range destroyer (or cruiser) torpedo attacks could get kills faster, but just using them as the saturation weapons they are is low-effort and does work.



Bonus: for whatever reason Gaijin hasn't murdered the SL economy of naval, so you'll be able to collect some much-needed currency while you're at it.

[Yes, but the SP economy is part of the reason why nobody plays it in the first place.][/quote]

[ulzgoroth]

[Capturing circles with huge ships makes no sense, makes everybody cluster together to be hit with an orbital laser strike, or a bomber and ruins the fluidity of the match with ships, since with bigger ships, you have to stop your engines. It is a bad idea and lazily implemented as welll.]

They have big circles on some maps that suit large ships better. Also, clustering on a capture point is a play error, not something the mechanic forces - it only needs one ship to capture the point. (The difficulty of capping small points with large ships is quite annoying. One could think of it as a pro-coastal feature, but...not a pleasant one.)

[Because they are UNFUN. That is the main point of my post - Naval isn't fun, especially at higher tiers. Try to use your imagination with the ground targets - could especially be used in the river maps. These could range from wide city and battlefield areas, to "precision targets", which would give more score and credits. Way more interesting, than capturing buoy circles and you have to actually use your ship's firepower to do them. Add-in ground forces fighting among each-other and maybe combine it with some capturable objectives on sea, but not too many of them and BOOM - WAY more interesting. Again. Also fights the peeking a bit.]

I can't think of anything that would make ground targets interesting. We have NPC ship targets, which already provide the 'shoot inanimate objects' aspect, but work better with the mechanics and don't require dealing with deep stretches of impassable non-submerged terrain. Too bad the map types that use them are currently pretty bad though.

[That would make the maps even more interesting - currents! I'd imagine river maps at their delta, or wide rivers and coastal areas full of cliffs and rock outcroppings for lowtiers, where people can chase eachother in fast boats and Armored Boats finally get to shine, with their underpowered guns. Also, more could be added from WWI.]

They've got coastal-navy only maps already, just not done in that style. Have you seen the flooded city? Not at all against a river delta map though.

[WT isn't a WWI game? Say what? Do you know how many WWI designs are implemented here? I'd say it's at least 10%, if not more. Don't make me name vehicles. We have WWI vehicles, Interwar period, WWII, Cold War and Modern Era stuff already ingame. Yes, WWI ships would be placed lower in BR, that means other ships can go higher, so that they can be used with Rank III planes. Big brain time.]

10%? What? I'm pretty sure we don't have a single WWI tank. Some low tier planes might be WWI, not sure, but the most notable WWI aircraft aren't present. Pretty much only naval has WWI vehicles. I haven't looked too closely but I wouldn't be surprised if only the battleship tier has vehicles that served only in WWI.

[Yes, I believe I am incredibly stealthy with AI gunners auto-detecting me.]

You can, though. The gunners can give you away, but they don't necessarily. Either because they don't engage you (being otherwise occupied, out of arc, etc) or the player doesn't notice it. I try to set my gunners to idle (or AA only) on torpedo boat attack runs so that they don't give me away to the target, and it does work. Not every time, of course, but that's as it should be.

[At least half of them are severly under-BR'd and are frustrating to play-against for new players.]

Which? The ones that new players should fight aren't HMG-proof IIRC. Low-tier boats with utterly garbage armaments are in for a bad time, granted. (Also, if you haven't played them, try it and you'll see what I mean about waves.)

[Possible? Yes. Feasible? No.] (Regarding minelaying)

What? It'd be trivial. Any time you're on a capture point, you're at a position the enemy will want to sail through. Heck, it wouldn't be hard to drop mines right in the enemy coastal spawn points, though the blue-water ones are unlikely.

[Meanwhile, coastal ships can get ♥♥♥♥♥♥. Nice.]

Well, more so, but their weapons work fine too. They just need to tag it convincingly first. Bofors are quite good, for instance. Not to say it's not a bit overpowered, because it probably is. (Though at 3.3, it's on the same rank with some other pretty nasty coastal vessels.)

[You will not get within 1km of that ferry, unless the player is braindead. Have you ever been on such a ferry? I have. The type is mostly used on rivers and coastlines, that is why it is so slow and that's where it should stay. The addition of waves would fix this, as would making them more brittle - HE hits in the middle? It should fall-apart.]

Why would you want to get within 1 km of a flack ferry? That would be a bad plan. The light variant is vulnerable to engaging it with superior range, as the 20mms don't have a lot of reach. The heavy variant you might actually choose to get close to. In either case, I find the key counter-play is hosing down the weapon positions: they're big and exposed, and if you get the drop on them you can render the barge basically helpless with a good sweep and then keep shooting until it dies. Those 'boats' are kind of egregiously durable though.

Waves don't really do much to the barges, they're big.

[Yes, because you cannot use a rank III plane with a rank III ship, because rank III planes generally aren't 2.3 BR, jesus... To explain further - that means you'll either use a rank II plane, being unable to complete missions and earning basically nothing with it, or you'll fight ships 1 whole BR above you. Pick. Pain or pain?]

So use a higher rank ship? It's a problem only at a very particular point in the tech tree progression, for particular challenges... I admit to having no idea whether the ground and air trees are better synchronized really.

[Count how many torpedo-bombers the Soviets have. Also count how many of them are rank III, which is generally the requirement to complete any mission. I'll wait.]

Name an aircraft, though? The USSR simply didn't really have torpedo bombers much. The only options I can see that would wind up at that rank are a Tu-2 variant, or an Il-2 modification.

[On SOME costal units it makes sense. But where does the artillery come from, when the Battleships is already being piloted by another player? It makes no sense and ruins some aspects of the gamemode, since unlike in tank RB, artillery in Naval is a literal orbital bombardement.]

I have no idea what makes it more inappropriate to your mind in naval battles than in tank battles. "Literal orbital bombardment" is wrong and doesn't convey the problem...

[Yeah, but that is also ineffective as all hell. This is broken, until torpedoes in RB are made faster and ships lose AI gunners, or AI gunners get nerfed to hell. You should have to man those guns to protect yourself, though, just like AI gunners were a problem in Air RB before.]
No, that would completely ruin the mode. It's also ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ in air battles, making bomber defensive guns only useful to people who've perfected the esoteric and obtuse skillset of flying and directing the guns is bad.

Naval battles already demand the player coordinate more things than is reasonable or possible.

RB torpedoes move at realistic speeds, I believe. You don't get to 'balance' that. And, frankly, they're quite effective at what they do for the most part. Though torpedo bombers not having any way to practically aim their shots, that's dumb. The game admits you need plotting assistance to use the weapons, why are the planes getting shorted there?

[Agreed here, bombing is great with planes, but try using torpedoes, or big naval planes, which are currently useless.]

I do use torpedoes, pretty well thank you.

Not sure which 'big naval planes' you have in mind? PBJs? I can't comment, I haven't fielded them since I'm using the Helldiver (usually with torpedo) as my US naval attack aircraft.

[Exactly. That's around the time they gave up on Naval almost completely and used it as a money bait with the PG02 Sparviero ships.]

You mean before they re-arranged the tech tree, added heavy cruisers and battleships, brought over radar functionality, and are about to add ship-launched aircraft? Naval is not abandoned.

[Sonar should be used to spot mines, there shouldn't be a red flag warning you of them and you can only use it in pulses and it does have a cooldown. Subs should definitely be a thing, but I can see the problem with them.]

That sounds completely gamey and unrealistic, and also totally useless since mines are basically irrelevant anyway.

If they added subs I wouldn't complain, but I don't actually think they should be a thing. They really have no business being anywhere near battles like the game covers. They'd need scenarios, and War Thunder always seems to not bother with those. (Or maybe to test them and take them away? I never actually saw naval Enduring Confrontation but I've heard people talk about it some.)

I[The playerbase is extremely small in comparison to the entire game without Naval. I am not saying it doesen't exist, but it definitely is a weight on the servers and nothing more.]

That makes no sense - very few players -> very few games -> very little server burden.

[Yes, but the SP economy is part of the reason why nobody plays it in the first place.]
SP economy? I can't figure out any way to interpret this that makes any sense. If you mean SL that especially makes no sense, since naval is easily the best source of SL in the game at present.

[FizzyElf]

引用自 SteelWolf45：

引用自 Shillelagh：

No, torpedoes are ♥♥♥♥. You can take a big ship and spray and sometimes another big ship will get unlucky and hit a torpedo but that's unlikely.
You could also just take a smaller boat and fire torps at the minimum possible distance for them to work, which is more effective but leads to you immediately getting smoked by main guns. If you only need to get one kill though, that's the way to go.

I need 10 of those suckers, I wish the task was only 1 kill...

Take big ship to cap circle
proceed to broadside torpedo every smol vessel within cap circle (turn off your AI guns)
PROFIT

My first match in the mikuma and one of my first big fights in the german reserve ship was doing this, got a ton of SP points and kills before I went down in a blaze of glory, though the mikuma needed a big bomb before she sank, pretty fun but you WILL lose that ship either from the main fight or the revenge bomber rush unless you have a ton of AA on your ship.

[256_Swerve]

引用自 Graephen：

引用自 256_Swerve：

I've played a fair bit of naval so I didn't find this challenge difficult BUT you need to know what you're doing, find an approach that you can make work and stick to it.

I got the first 4 kills in RB but I found that too unreliable and time consuming (10 matches for 4 kills) so I switched to AB and got the final 6 in about 4 matches.

AB method - Primarily choose a rank 3 coastal that is speedy and has 4 torps. On spawn head towards mid map or bluewater side, look for island cover that gives edge views of likely contested spaces or enemy routes. Pop out, fire all torps in a spread across the target area or at any target ships. Do this quickly, then retreat back to cover to rearm. Rinse and repeat.

I used the following line ups:

USA
PT-658 from this Battlepass season, with backups.
USS Barker bluewater. Didn't use it much, there for padding

Great Britain
Dark Aggressor
SGB Grey Goose, SGB Grey Fox

I didn't need to use the SGBs that much got all my kills with the Aggressor. Had torp planes in both line ups but only got an assist from a torp hit.

I see a problem with that build, as a few of those ships are rank II.

Only the Barker, the rest are all rank 3 or 4, as I said it was there for (BR) padding because I don't have any other rank 3+ US coastal vessels and I don't like going into a game without a full line up and I always like to complete a match regardless of what task I'm focused on.

What I should add is that my aim was to keep the overall BR on both line ups to 3.3 max so I added a Wellington X to the GB line up. This is so I'm working against the lowest BR bluewater vessels as there's more chance of meeting opposition that perhaps doesn't know what they are doing.

[darthclide]

And now they are forcing you to use a coastal ship to get 15 torpedo kills.... Why can't I just play planes and tanks for the battle pass challenges Gaijin?

[Vamilad]

引用自 Graephen：

Yes, you are forced as a player to play Naval battles, if you want the Battlepass rewards. It is forcing everyone, who has bought/won the battlepass to play Naval battles and you cannot say, that it does not.

The ammount of points you can earn by completing dailies and specials is limited and would probably not be enough to get all the rewards or the next battlepass.

You ARE being forced, IF you bought the battlepass. The mode is not fun - stop defending Gaijin.

People intentionally spend money on this game?

What's on the Battlepass that gives it value?

[Nenne.]

引用自 Vamilad：

引用自 Graephen：

Yes, you are forced as a player to play Naval battles, if you want the Battlepass rewards. It is forcing everyone, who has bought/won the battlepass to play Naval battles and you cannot say, that it does not.

The ammount of points you can earn by completing dailies and specials is limited and would probably not be enough to get all the rewards or the next battlepass.

You ARE being forced, IF you bought the battlepass. The mode is not fun - stop defending Gaijin.

People intentionally spend money on this game?

What's on the Battlepass that gives it value?

Nothing.. nothing at all

[mogami_99]

引用自 Graephen：

Why do ships peek corners like they're tanks?
Why am I capturing meaningless buoy circles in a cruiser?
Where are some actual Airbattle-esque ground targets for Battleships to bombard?
Where are some river maps for armored and early-game ships?
Speaking of armored boats, why are there so few WW1 ships?
Why are there so few ships in general?
Why is it impossible to be stealthy in Naval RB?
Why are Soviet boats literal tanks and tiny as hell to top-it-off?

How uselful are mines? Both teams start at a similar distance from one another, with no different spawns aside from big ship/small ship. Nobody is gonna pass an area you've mined, ever, and you will not get a killl because there is a big shining red warning on your screen showing you where the mines are. Provided you'd actually manage to get to an area to mine-up without getting shot-up.

Why are some rank I ships actually better and faster, than later torpedo boats? Someone has forgotten to take speed into account when balancing again. I am looking at you LS-3.
Speaking of overpowered speedy-boats with lasercannons - WHY is there a modern ships with a gatling gun fighting WWII ships? Is it really worth it to get a few people to pay 60€ for that BS to ruin nearly the entire gamemode, for everboydy who doesen't?

Why do Germans get the best things again? The damn ferries are supposed to be fragile, but they are the equivalent of a superheavy tank with multiple turrets, that is impervious to even high-calibre shells!

Why can't I use rank III planes with rank III vessels?
Why are there so few Naval-oriented planes?
Why do most ships have access to orbital artillery beacons?
Why are torpedoes next to useless, while bombs obliterate most ships even on near-misses?
On the other hand - why does having my gunners set to AA mean I automatically obliterate any nearby playe planes, provided I have a decent armament?
Where did French Navy go? Is it scuttled in a port somewhere again?
Why are there depth charges, when there's no submarines? Who's stupid enough to drive behind a sub-chaser? Seriously - the last BP challenge with the depth charge damage was beyond painful to do. It isn't fun.
Where is sonar?
Where are the waves?
Where is the fun?

And the most important question; Why do folks at Gaijin even waste server-power and resources on an unifnished gamemode, that nobody plays and hogs the servers with having to control bots?

So many questions, so little time to play a useless gamemode in an otherwise pretty fun game.

Well you are wrong on a few levels. Opposing teams do pass through areas where your team has placed mines. Depth charges work against enemy ships (the ones too close to get guns or torpedoes on)
At all hours of the day or night you can find naval battles with at least 12 humans per side. The depth charge challenge was easy to do (but you needed to carry depth charges)
What is an orbital artillery beacon? Torpedoes are the most potent weapon many ships carry the question should be "why are so many people inept with their torpedoes" (Many battles begin with your teammates firing all their torpedoes into you or a land mass that lies between them and the enemy)
The one point I agree with is people in a ship fighting like they are in a tank destroyer and hiding when they should be aggressively attacking the caps.

[Nenne.]

引用自 mogami_99：

引用自 Graephen：

Why do ships peek corners like they're tanks?
Why am I capturing meaningless buoy circles in a cruiser?
Where are some actual Airbattle-esque ground targets for Battleships to bombard?
Where are some river maps for armored and early-game ships?
Speaking of armored boats, why are there so few WW1 ships?
Why are there so few ships in general?
Why is it impossible to be stealthy in Naval RB?
Why are Soviet boats literal tanks and tiny as hell to top-it-off?

How uselful are mines? Both teams start at a similar distance from one another, with no different spawns aside from big ship/small ship. Nobody is gonna pass an area you've mined, ever, and you will not get a killl because there is a big shining red warning on your screen showing you where the mines are. Provided you'd actually manage to get to an area to mine-up without getting shot-up.

Why are some rank I ships actually better and faster, than later torpedo boats? Someone has forgotten to take speed into account when balancing again. I am looking at you LS-3.
Speaking of overpowered speedy-boats with lasercannons - WHY is there a modern ships with a gatling gun fighting WWII ships? Is it really worth it to get a few people to pay 60€ for that BS to ruin nearly the entire gamemode, for everboydy who doesen't?

Why do Germans get the best things again? The damn ferries are supposed to be fragile, but they are the equivalent of a superheavy tank with multiple turrets, that is impervious to even high-calibre shells!

Why can't I use rank III planes with rank III vessels?
Why are there so few Naval-oriented planes?
Why do most ships have access to orbital artillery beacons?
Why are torpedoes next to useless, while bombs obliterate most ships even on near-misses?
On the other hand - why does having my gunners set to AA mean I automatically obliterate any nearby playe planes, provided I have a decent armament?
Where did French Navy go? Is it scuttled in a port somewhere again?
Why are there depth charges, when there's no submarines? Who's stupid enough to drive behind a sub-chaser? Seriously - the last BP challenge with the depth charge damage was beyond painful to do. It isn't fun.
Where is sonar?
Where are the waves?
Where is the fun?

And the most important question; Why do folks at Gaijin even waste server-power and resources on an unifnished gamemode, that nobody plays and hogs the servers with having to control bots?

So many questions, so little time to play a useless gamemode in an otherwise pretty fun game.

Well yo are wrong on a few levels. Opposing teams do pass through areas where your team has placed mines. Depth charges work against enemy ships (the ones too close to get guns or torpedoes on)
At all hours of the day or night you can find naval battles with at least 12 humans per side. The depth charge challenge was easy to do (but you needed to carry depth charges)
What is an orbital artillery beacon? Torpedoes are the most potent weapon many ships carry the question should be "why are so many people inept with their torpedoes" (Many battles begin with your teammates firing all their torpedoes into you are a land mass that lies between them and the enemy)

So you gonna wait 5 months for him to maybe answer you ?

[mogami_99]

I didn't answer him I answered anyone who read his post.

[Toblm]

引用自 Graephen：

Why do ships peek corners like they're tanks?
Why am I capturing meaningless buoy circles in a cruiser?
Where are some actual Airbattle-esque ground targets for Battleships to bombard?
Where are some river maps for armored and early-game ships?
Speaking of armored boats, why are there so few WW1 ships?
Why are there so few ships in general?
Why is it impossible to be stealthy in Naval RB?
Why are Soviet boats literal tanks and tiny as hell to top-it-off?

Because its effective for some ships.
Because you choose to and your faster teammates ♥♥♥♥♥♥ off.
There are. Or have been on some maps.
River maps? Too constricting.
WT largely starts with WW2. Why so few WW1 tanks and aircraft? Because they dont fit.
Because Naval is the newest of the three game modes.
It isnt impossible.
Because several are armored river boats.

引用自 Graephen：

How uselful are mines? Both teams start at a similar distance from one another, with no different spawns aside from big ship/small ship. Nobody is gonna pass an area you've mined, ever, and you will not get a killl because there is a big shining red warning on your screen showing you where the mines are. Provided you'd actually manage to get to an area to mine-up without getting shot-up.

Air dropped mines are great. Tripwire bombs. Also great to mine a narrow if given the opportunity. Naval ebbs and flows more than most game modes.

引用自 Graephen：

Why are some rank I ships actually better and faster, than later torpedo boats? Someone has forgotten to take speed into account when balancing again. I am looking at you LS-3.
Speaking of overpowered speedy-boats with lasercannons - WHY is there a modern ships with a gatling gun fighting WWII ships? Is it really worth it to get a few people to pay 60€ for that BS to ruin nearly the entire gamemode, for everboydy who doesen't?

Why are some Ships (Bluewater) better than some Boats(Coastal)? There is a BR mismatch between the modes. And different vessels suit different playstyles better. Might as well ask why is the M22 better than a Tiger II. The M22 can be effective at 7.7, the Tiger cannot.

引用自 Graephen：

Why do Germans get the best things again? The damn ferries are supposed to be fragile, but they are the equivalent of a superheavy tank with multiple turrets, that is impervious to even high-calibre shells!

They don't. Ferries are slow, and fragile. They do pack a punch, and can be used effectively. But they are also sitting ducks.

引用自 Graephen：

Why can't I use rank III planes with rank III vessels?
Why are there so few Naval-oriented planes?
Why do most ships have access to orbital artillery beacons?
Why are torpedoes next to useless, while bombs obliterate most ships even on near-misses?
On the other hand - why does having my gunners set to AA mean I automatically obliterate any nearby playe planes, provided I have a decent armament?
Where did French Navy go? Is it scuttled in a port somewhere again?
Why are there depth charges, when there's no submarines? Who's stupid enough to drive behind a sub-chaser? Seriously - the last BP challenge with the depth charge damage was beyond painful to do. It isn't fun.
Where is sonar?
Where are the waves?
Where is the fun?

You can. You just have to match BRs.
All nations that used naval aircraft, have naval aircraft.
Ships use the same artillery as ground vehicles. Nothing orbital about it as most maps are well within range of shore.
Torpedoes are far from useless. They make for an excellent 1 hit kill on most anything.
AI AA are usually quite effective against a single plane. They struggle to prioritize targets when there is more than one target available and a clever pilot can pick targets that are otherwise occupied.
Yes. Yes they were.
Depth charges are an interesting close defense tool.
As you said, no subs, no need for sonar.
Not modeled, or not modeled well.
I have fun. Sounds like user error if you don't.

[JuX]

Have to admit it's pretty scummy how they make season pass in to immense challenge grind and have these "bonus" challanges to help push it forward. In attempt for Gaijin to save their naval game mode that just isn't fun at all.