I was never given the odds of 'winning' on the crates in War Thunder..

[ℬℓα⊂₭ ℙℜ¡ℵ₠]

http://www.pcgamer.com/belgium-says-loot-boxes-are-gambling-wants-them-banned-in-europe/

In light of the way the tide is turning how will Gaijin change 'gamble crates' or whatever they call them. I thought I had a 1 in 4 (or 5, can't remember) chance of winning a tank and ended up with a terrible prize for the gold I used up. The odds were never explained. Can I have my gold back?

[Kronuxen]

ℬℓα⊂₭ ℙℜ¡ℵ₠님이 먼저 게시:

Kronuxen님이 먼저 게시:

Those facts were hidden and it is not legal in UK?
1. Those facts aren't hidden, it is like saying a roulette doesn't provide you with all the information detailing how much profit will you make on average...
2. It is legal... its called gambling, although in this case you always get a reward.

Well now, let us look at Roulette. There are 38 numbers;- With 38 numbers (1 to 36, plus 0 and 00), the true odds of hitting a single number on a straight-up bet are 37 to 1, but the house pays only 35 to 1 if you win! Ditto the payouts on the combination bets. This discrepancy is where the house gets its huge edge in roulette.But those odds are explained.

In Gaijin odds who knows how many numbers are applied to each prize, could be 10% or 00000.1% chance of winning the tank. It's unfair not to say.

No, they aren't explained because the roulette doesn't have 1 in 38 chances of scoring, roulettes are adjusted so that not all numbers have the same chance and they change it oftenly and on numbers which people haven't been choosing regularly (due to psicological induction for instance). Also roulettes won't give you a reward everytime you play.

In the case of war thunder, the gambling always rewards you and won't give you an advantage, the differences between the different prices can't be objectified as they give different things which can't be compared (even if the thought is ridiculous, war thunder can argue that the silver lions reward can be on the same level as the tank reward because one is not objectively better than the other although people oftenly prefer the tank).

[ℬℓα⊂₭ ℙℜ¡ℵ₠]

Kronuxen님이 먼저 게시:

ℬℓα⊂₭ ℙℜ¡ℵ₠님이 먼저 게시:

Well now, let us look at Roulette. There are 38 numbers;- With 38 numbers (1 to 36, plus 0 and 00), the true odds of hitting a single number on a straight-up bet are 37 to 1, but the house pays only 35 to 1 if you win! Ditto the payouts on the combination bets. This discrepancy is where the house gets its huge edge in roulette.But those odds are explained.

In Gaijin odds who knows how many numbers are applied to each prize, could be 10% or 00000.1% chance of winning the tank. It's unfair not to say.

No, they aren't explained because the roulette doesn't have 1 in 38 chances of scoring, roulettes are adjusted so that not all numbers have the same chance and they change it oftenly and on numbers which people haven't been choosing regularly (due to psicological induction for instance). Also roulettes won't give you a reward everytime you play.

In the case of war thunder, the gambling always rewards you and won't give you an advantage, the differences between the different prices can't be objectified as they give different things which can't be compared (even if the thought is ridiculous, war thunder can argue that the silver lions reward can be on the same level as the tank reward because one is not objectively better than the other although people oftenly prefer the tank).

But they still did not make that clear. The way they presented it made it look like a one in four (or five?) chance of winning the prizes listed. Sure it was not actual money, it was only Gold Eagles. But those Gold Eagels are the same as going to a casino and paying cash for tokens. I only spent about 500 GE on gambling, and the rest of my money on crews, premium time and vehicels etc. So it's no major issue, but I also want things to be transparent for the customer. I don't have a problem with anyone gambling as long as they are made aware of odds. In the case of Gaijin crates where do I get the odds? There might be a 0.00000000000000000000000001% chance of winning a tank for all I know.

[PyroPaul]

ℬℓα⊂₭ ℙℜ¡ℵ₠님이 먼저 게시:

http://www.pcgamer.com/belgium-says-loot-boxes-are-gambling-wants-them-banned-in-europe/

In light of the way the tide is turning how will Gaijin change 'gamble crates' or whatever they call them. I thought I had a 1 in 4 (or 5, can't remember) chance of winning a tank and ended up with a terrible prize for the gold I used up. The odds were never explained. Can I have my gold back?

The game doesn't have loot boxes.

A loot box is an in game item which can only be opened via an object obtained by purchase with real world money.

Every box in the game automatically opens when obtained with no exchange of money ever occuring, thus preventing it from being considered a 'Loot Box'.

[AttackerCat]

ℬℓα⊂₭ ℙℜ¡ℵ₠님이 먼저 게시:

Eftwyrd님이 먼저 게시:

why were you gambling without understanding the odds, laws are not there to protect you from your own stupidity

Maybe you are a bit slow so I'll break it down to your level. Let us say there are 5 prize items:- a banana, apple, orange, pear, grape. Then you pay 250 gold to win one, unless the Devs said otherwise why would you assume you had less than 20% chance of winning one particular fruit?

Since you're a quick one to insult these guys giving you advice, allow me to tear this arguement apart:

First off you're assuming that all the prizes available have the same value (which they do not).
Let us say you have 5 prizes: $1 million, $5, a new car, a free pizza, and a pen/pencil. And you pay $5 to win one of those. See, these 5 items have incredibly different values, and would have correspondingly different chances of winning.

Why would you put the odds the same to win $1 million as $5? And who would assume these odds to be the same? (You know what they say about assuming...)

Likewise, many games - TF-2, CoD, CS:GO, H1Z1, etc. use loot crates, boxes, or trophies of a similar system and it is used around the world (including in the beloved UK), the only nation that has posed a significant issue for any company offering these crates/trophies/whatever, is China with the caveat of having the odds revealed.

TL:DR- stop insulting people, think about things before you buy to avoid surprises, and no GE back. Sorry.

[ℬℓα⊂₭ ℙℜ¡ℵ₠]

AttackerCat님이 먼저 게시:

ℬℓα⊂₭ ℙℜ¡ℵ₠님이 먼저 게시:

Maybe you are a bit slow so I'll break it down to your level. Let us say there are 5 prize items:- a banana, apple, orange, pear, grape. Then you pay 250 gold to win one, unless the Devs said otherwise why would you assume you had less than 20% chance of winning one particular fruit?

Since you're a quick one to insult these guys giving you advice, allow me to tear this arguement apart:

First off you're assuming that all the prizes available have the same value (which they do not).
Let us say you have 5 prizes: $1 million, $5, a new car, a free pizza, and a pen/pencil. And you pay $5 to win one of those. See, these 5 items have incredibly different values, and would have correspondingly different chances of winning.

Why would you put the odds the same to win $1 million as $5? And who would assume these odds to be the same? (You know what they say about assuming...)

Likewise, many games - TF-2, CoD, CS:GO, H1Z1, etc. use loot crates, boxes, or trophies of a similar system and it is used around the world (including in the beloved UK), the only nation that has posed a significant issue for any company offering these crates/trophies/whatever, is China with the caveat of having the odds revealed.

TL:DR- stop insulting people, think about things before you buy to avoid surprises, and no GE back. Sorry.

Ok, so right now I could pay 299 Gold Eagles and the crate (whatever you like to call it) 'contains one of the following items'

A KV-122 (valued at 4880GE)
A random wager
120000 Silver Lions
Premium Account for 3 days
300GE

So how do I work my odds out of winning the tank?

[Something completely different]

ℬℓα⊂₭ ℙℜ¡ℵ₠님이 먼저 게시:

Kronuxen님이 먼저 게시:

Also, the crates won't give you advantages against other player like in battlefront 2.

I agree with that, but I still think the company should show actual odds. I feel I was mislead.

Why did you buy them and use them then without knowing the odds?

[PyroPaul]

You could also get the above trophy for free, as is the intended method of aquasition. Being a trophy that is provided some times after a battle.

Your lack of patience or refusal to engage with the game to acquire it this way does not make it gambling. And thus you don't need to know the odds of each item in the trophy.

[ℬℓα⊂₭ ℙℜ¡ℵ₠]

Something completely different님이 먼저 게시:

ℬℓα⊂₭ ℙℜ¡ℵ₠님이 먼저 게시:

I agree with that, but I still think the company should show actual odds. I feel I was mislead.

Why did you buy them and use them then without knowing the odds?

Becasue as I explained earlier in a very straight forward way, I thought that you had a 1 in 5 chance. There are 5 prizes (items the devs call them) in the box, so I thought I had a 20% of getting one of them. A 20% chance seemed like a good bet for the chance of winning a tank.

[ℬℓα⊂₭ ℙℜ¡ℵ₠]

PyroPaul님이 먼저 게시:

You could also get the above trophy for free, as is the intended method of aquasition. Being a trophy that is provided some times after a battle.

Your lack of patience or refusal to engage with the game to acquire it this way does not make it gambling. And thus you don't need to know the odds of each item in the trophy.

It was just an example. I already have more the ground vehicels in the game.

[NAF-5th.Legion-Waffen.Div]

yea i would love to see the actuall odds in actual numbers. but if Gaijin showed us, i bet noone would buy them anymore.

[ℬℓα⊂₭ ℙℜ¡ℵ₠]

AttackerCat님이 먼저 게시:

ℬℓα⊂₭ ℙℜ¡ℵ₠님이 먼저 게시:

Maybe you are a bit slow so I'll break it down to your level. Let us say there are 5 prize items:- a banana, apple, orange, pear, grape. Then you pay 250 gold to win one, unless the Devs said otherwise why would you assume you had less than 20% chance of winning one particular fruit?

'snip'

TL:DR- stop insulting people, think about things before you buy to avoid surprises, and no GE back. Sorry.

Fair enough, I'm sorry for insulting people.