What a surprise, russian MBT's are the only top tier tanks with Entrenching.

[EndangeredPootisBird]

Almost as if it was the reason it was added in the first place lol

[N1thecaptain]

nirvana_sth の投稿を引用：

IR9 Andyflosse の投稿を引用：

Honestly, if you think there is no bias thats fine. Im not going to discuss this further after reading those statements.

If you think a helicopter (KA or not) CAN or SHOULD survive a 105mm or 120mm HEATFS round you are delusional. HEATFS,APHE,APDS,APFSDS all would either blow up that thing or punch a hole in in that would obliterate it.
He did not mention that the HEATFS is better than using an SPAA, just that the helis tank those shells like its nothing, which shouldnt even be possible.

Second point is hilarious. I cant tell if you go full troll or are really delusional if you think the Allouette is OP. Sure it got ! 4 ! ATGM's that dont even one shot most of the time and if you fart (or throw a rock at it, like someone said) against it - will 100% - die.

But saying the "German Allouette demolishes whole teams" is like next level crying how OP the Germans are. I get that you hate Germany and their OP vehicles.

Oh ive just read the "if you are struggling against soviet vehicles, its 2 things; either you are bad...". Thanks. So all players play OP vehicles but not Russia. Keep up the good Russia bias. Lets buff them more and give them even more vehicles because they are simply bad and need it. #Russia suffers

if you are struggling against russia, you will struggle against anything buddy. i repeat, you just heard something and keep repeating it to yourself cuz that makes you feel better that "its not your fault", rather "the game is flawed".

if you played russia you would have long left playing the game.

thats just the thing, russian players do not complain as often as other players complain.

ive never said russia ain't got good vehicles, never will say. and i have not used the term "OP" here. if you thing however russia has "OP" vehicles, then the problem is you.

russia has way less good and effective vehicles as other nations have in the game.
no one can argue a russian MBT with 11.9 degree per second turret rotation is as effective as another tank at the same BR with 23.8. russian one got a dozer blade, the other has thermals. i wish you had the dozer blades and gave us the thermals at least.
and thats the entire russian tech tree for you, you will eventually get the goodies other nations got, but at much higher BR.

keep on thinking about russian bias, im sure you believe in tooth fairy too.

Russia gets thermals later. Wanna know what the western nations get much later than the Russians? Armour. Being able to see the enemy faster doesn't mean much if your shell has to sneak through the tiniest crack in their ERA and Stalinium/Leninium composite armour to even have a chance of penetrating. If I had a pc that was able to record gameplay while also having the game run at any kind of a framerate, I would gladly record a non pen montage for you.

So just to recap: NATO can see the commies first, but while the commies can point and click, NATO has to aim for tiny weakspots or flank to the side. It's not perfectly balanced at all br's, but the general gist of it is close enough to actual balance that I can see Redfor and Blufor win just as often as eachother

[Tom]

N1thecaptain の投稿を引用：

FizzyElf の投稿を引用：

Allouette will die if a rock gets thrown in its general direction:eaglederp: but against early heli's and jets it is amazing and fun with fast turns and maneuvers you can make quick work of the more sluggish enemies and your ATGM's are a danger even for top tier planes if they get too cocky, for fighting tanks it needs to be on a map with lots of buildings or mountains breaking lines of sight for enemy SPAA's, thankfully it is small and has ATGM's which make hiding and popping out easier than some of the larger, higher BR heli's. in close range though I would say it is probably the second worse with only the Mi-4 beating it due to how much of a pain that thing is to fly.

That explains it, I used it on more open maps like Poland or sands of Sinai so I could use it's 3.5km range to it's full extent, but I should be using it on maps like Sweden or Vietnam? Guess that just gives me a reason to blast fortunate son. I know it's a German chopper, not an American one, but it's still a chopper in Nam. All we need now are Willy Petes

The alouette is french

[Danger]

yeah its almost as if they had it in real life

[nirvana_sth]

N1thecaptain の投稿を引用：

nirvana_sth の投稿を引用：

i gather from your statements that you have not used much soviet vehicles, merely played against them.
i invite anyone here to do a 1v1 match against me, i will play A4E early (the squadron plane) and you take ZSU-23-4 or ZSU-37-2, see if you could kill me once. both got garbage radars, both have massive bullet drops compared to NATO SPAAs, they are slow af to drive and carry less ammo. you played 200 matches against soviets, the vehicles above killed you 20 times due to your mistakes, doesn't mean they are any effective. the rates at which they are destroyed is very bad.

you don't need armour in SA 313B. it usually hides behind cover and its super manoeuvrable and agile. they are so effective. very difficult to even spot if they are hiding, only thermals can help.

lets talk a bit Ka choppers. you dont get decent air-to-ground missiles until 11.0 (10.7 if you wanted prem).
anything before that is either 9M114 misssile with 560mm pen which is super bad even at close range, or 9M120 which is a tandem ATGM with 800mm pen, very ineffective against the likes of M1A1s. test-fly it if you doubt me. 9K127 is again not super effective against M1A1 i tried in test flying Ka-50. both 9M114 and 9M120 are on Shturm-S tank destroyer, that vehicle sits at 8.3! yeh!
good ATGM missiles on russian tech tree are 9M133 (on bmp-2m) and 9M123 on Khrizantema. the only decent ones against top tier.

also how on earth would i know when an Ozelot spawned? again, im happy to 1v1 ppl, they should take La-15 and i take Ozelot, see who will win. its not the best SPAA with missiles, but its bloody effective against rank 5 jets, specially the soviet trashy planes.

the point is ppl talking about russian bias. there is no russian bias. fact is simple, russian tech tree is the worst tech tree in the game (at least among the major nations), either because soviet made vehicles were generally inferior to western counter-parts or they are badly balanced in game. mind you, the first russian medium tank with smoke launchers is obtained at 8.7. yeh, its that bad.
if you are struggling against soviet vehicles, its 2 things; either you are bad, or you have very high expectations of your own vehicles. its a team-play game, you will die eventually.
doesn't mean the soviet tank who just killed you is a better tank, he probably had died 10 times in previous matches.

I grinded my way to the IS-2, then lost interest because I was doing better with German tanks because they fit my playstyle a bit better. I also used the T-10A I got from the first battle pass quite a few times, though I didn't really like it. I flew the ITP M-1 enough to get myself to rank 3 of the Soviet air tree, but once again lost interest because German and American planes fit my playstyle better.

I have no idea where you're getting the killed 20 times by soviet AA in 200 matches from, I never said that, nor has anyone else. In my experience, the M247 and Gepard are indeed better than the Shilka and ZSU-37-2, but those 2 are still plenty viable, I'd say about 50-60% of my jet CAS deaths were from those 2 machines alone.

About the Alouette. I had already discovered that I was playing it wrong. Though I do still think you're exaggerating their effectiveness a bit. That might just be my stubborness though.

"anything before that is either 9M114 misssile with 560mm pen which is super bad even at close range" This sentence is a bit of a giveaway that you don't know what you're talking about, since it implies you think missiles lose pen over distance. They do not. At all. Also, 560mm pen is pretty good, it might not be able to pen the turret front of a Leopard 2A4 or M1A1 Abrams, but you shouldn't be aiming for that in the first place. 800mm pen is even better, plenty to destroy an enemy tank from the side. There's a youtube channel called Hunter, this guy plays top tier vehicles of all nations, he also has a few vids dedicated to choppers, and in every single one of them he finds a spot to the side of the battle, where he's gonna get side shots on his enemy, so he doesn't need to pen much armour.

There is indeed no way to know when an Ozelot spawns, but what I always do when I use CAS is fly perpendicular to the battlefield for a bit, look at what happens to any friendlies going in for CAS, if there are no friendlies, I dive down low, use the trees and terrain as cover and don't come up again until I'm behind the enemy spawn, because then if I get picked up on radar, they'll usually assume it's a friendly who spawned in a plane or chopper.

Once again, I never said Russian bias existed, that was someone else. People that main a certain nation like to think other nations have it better than them. I used to do this too, I used to be just as bad as the average Germany main, because I was just another average Germany main. At some point, I decided to try out these Soviet T-34's I thought were so OP, and later this T26E1-1 that was destroying my panther each round. I played some France, a little bit of Italy, some Britain, a few rounds of Sweden, etc. In doing this, I learned to appreciate what my main had, not only that, but it made me a better player overall in one specific way. It taught me to learn. Instead of getting angry after I die, I now look at what I did wrong, and how I could have prevented it. Now I actually learn from my mistakes instead of rushing to a forum to complain about a tank that killed me once. I'm still not exactly a great WT player, but at least I'm actually getting better. So if you think the Western nations have it so much better, go ahead, play them, you'll find out what they're really like, and by Western nations I don't mean just Germany and the US, but also France, Italy, Sweden, Japan, etc. You'll discover that they're not as strong as you think

again, and again, you continued the discussion without trying to at least looking up what im saying or trying it yourself.
La-15 has no bombs or anything resembling secondary weapon. its just a fighter with 300 rounds and a gun that is horrible to aim. so no, its not for CAS.
you want Mig-15 for CAS, it has 2 tiny bombs and no ballistic computer. get close to target and you are a goner.

again, you showed lack of understanding of russian missiles. mentioning penetration is just for comparison, for example the 9M123 has 1200 mm of pen.
560mm of pen might sound alot for a projectile, but for ATGM its peanuts. its not APFSDS. also it is not tandem, meaning it will not go through alot of tanks with add-on armours or composite armours. very weak missile compared to 9M123 and even 9M120.
9M120 is good at 8.3, but trying it against higher BR opponents, it is ineffective.
it says it has 800mm of pen, however it is unable to go though M1A1's turret front. and its tandem!

russian tech tree is not well known for CAS. cuz its pretty much garbage.
oh, and gaijin just bumped the BR of Yak-23 to 8.7. its an early type jet with only 180 rounds of 23mm rubbish gun. look it up. and it has no secondary weapons. thats what i mean when i say useless junk. look it up! this has the same BR as G91 and A4. case closed. at least my La-15 has modern wings, and its at 8.0.
at 8.7 ARB anything will eat Tak-23. 180 rounds is laughable!
yeh! thats russian bias for you. (and im not saying you believe in russian bias, just saying there are ppl vomiting that cr*p on these forums).

russian tanks got armour. hmmmm. i got this Object 685 at 8.7 that is easily defeated with 50 cal. its a light tank. compare this to Class 3 (P) weighing 40 tonnes and sit at the same BR.
i got T-62M at 8.7 with composite armour, though any HEATFS goes through frontally. a Leopard 1 at 7.3 can pen the turret frontally.

if you be more specific which russian tank you are struggling against, and what you are using yourself, i can better judge.

[FizzyElf]

Tom の投稿を引用：

N1thecaptain の投稿を引用：

That explains it, I used it on more open maps like Poland or sands of Sinai so I could use it's 3.5km range to it's full extent, but I should be using it on maps like Sweden or Vietnam? Guess that just gives me a reason to blast fortunate son. I know it's a German chopper, not an American one, but it's still a chopper in Nam. All we need now are Willy Petes

The alouette is french

Germany and France get the same starter heli but alouette is a nicer name, sadly I only have the german one at the moment, but maybe someday I'll have both.

[whatdoesthisbuttondo?]

FizzyElf の投稿を引用：

Tom の投稿を引用：

The alouette is french

Germany and France get the same starter heli but alouette is a nicer name, sadly I only have the german one at the moment, but maybe someday I'll have both.

They don't, France does get the H-34 and need to unlock the Alouette.

[FizzyElf]

whatdoesthisbuttondo? の投稿を引用：

FizzyElf の投稿を引用：

Germany and France get the same starter heli but alouette is a nicer name, sadly I only have the german one at the moment, but maybe someday I'll have both.

They don't, France does get the H-34 and need to unlock the Alouette.

wait I thought france had to unlock the H... I'll be right back

[FizzyElf]

FizzyElf の投稿を引用：

whatdoesthisbuttondo? の投稿を引用：

They don't, France does get the H-34 and need to unlock the Alouette.

wait I thought france had to unlock the H... I'll be right back

dang it, I am not spending 2 days grinding out a second Alouette in that thing, thanks for telling me that before hand mate

[N1thecaptain]

nirvana_sth の投稿を引用：

N1thecaptain の投稿を引用：

I grinded my way to the IS-2, then lost interest because I was doing better with German tanks because they fit my playstyle a bit better. I also used the T-10A I got from the first battle pass quite a few times, though I didn't really like it. I flew the ITP M-1 enough to get myself to rank 3 of the Soviet air tree, but once again lost interest because German and American planes fit my playstyle better.

I have no idea where you're getting the killed 20 times by soviet AA in 200 matches from, I never said that, nor has anyone else. In my experience, the M247 and Gepard are indeed better than the Shilka and ZSU-37-2, but those 2 are still plenty viable, I'd say about 50-60% of my jet CAS deaths were from those 2 machines alone.

About the Alouette. I had already discovered that I was playing it wrong. Though I do still think you're exaggerating their effectiveness a bit. That might just be my stubborness though.

"anything before that is either 9M114 misssile with 560mm pen which is super bad even at close range" This sentence is a bit of a giveaway that you don't know what you're talking about, since it implies you think missiles lose pen over distance. They do not. At all. Also, 560mm pen is pretty good, it might not be able to pen the turret front of a Leopard 2A4 or M1A1 Abrams, but you shouldn't be aiming for that in the first place. 800mm pen is even better, plenty to destroy an enemy tank from the side. There's a youtube channel called Hunter, this guy plays top tier vehicles of all nations, he also has a few vids dedicated to choppers, and in every single one of them he finds a spot to the side of the battle, where he's gonna get side shots on his enemy, so he doesn't need to pen much armour.

There is indeed no way to know when an Ozelot spawns, but what I always do when I use CAS is fly perpendicular to the battlefield for a bit, look at what happens to any friendlies going in for CAS, if there are no friendlies, I dive down low, use the trees and terrain as cover and don't come up again until I'm behind the enemy spawn, because then if I get picked up on radar, they'll usually assume it's a friendly who spawned in a plane or chopper.

Once again, I never said Russian bias existed, that was someone else. People that main a certain nation like to think other nations have it better than them. I used to do this too, I used to be just as bad as the average Germany main, because I was just another average Germany main. At some point, I decided to try out these Soviet T-34's I thought were so OP, and later this T26E1-1 that was destroying my panther each round. I played some France, a little bit of Italy, some Britain, a few rounds of Sweden, etc. In doing this, I learned to appreciate what my main had, not only that, but it made me a better player overall in one specific way. It taught me to learn. Instead of getting angry after I die, I now look at what I did wrong, and how I could have prevented it. Now I actually learn from my mistakes instead of rushing to a forum to complain about a tank that killed me once. I'm still not exactly a great WT player, but at least I'm actually getting better. So if you think the Western nations have it so much better, go ahead, play them, you'll find out what they're really like, and by Western nations I don't mean just Germany and the US, but also France, Italy, Sweden, Japan, etc. You'll discover that they're not as strong as you think

again, and again, you continued the discussion without trying to at least looking up what im saying or trying it yourself.
La-15 has no bombs or anything resembling secondary weapon. its just a fighter with 300 rounds and a gun that is horrible to aim. so no, its not for CAS.
you want Mig-15 for CAS, it has 2 tiny bombs and no ballistic computer. get close to target and you are a goner.

again, you showed lack of understanding of russian missiles. mentioning penetration is just for comparison, for example the 9M123 has 1200 mm of pen.
560mm of pen might sound alot for a projectile, but for ATGM its peanuts. its not APFSDS. also it is not tandem, meaning it will not go through alot of tanks with add-on armours or composite armours. very weak missile compared to 9M123 and even 9M120.
9M120 is good at 8.3, but trying it against higher BR opponents, it is ineffective.
it says it has 800mm of pen, however it is unable to go though M1A1's turret front. and its tandem!

russian tech tree is not well known for CAS. cuz its pretty much garbage.
oh, and gaijin just bumped the BR of Yak-23 to 8.7. its an early type jet with only 180 rounds of 23mm rubbish gun. look it up. and it has no secondary weapons. thats what i mean when i say useless junk. look it up! this has the same BR as G91 and A4. case closed. at least my La-15 has modern wings, and its at 8.0.
at 8.7 ARB anything will eat Tak-23. 180 rounds is laughable!
yeh! thats russian bias for you. (and im not saying you believe in russian bias, just saying there are ppl vomiting that cr*p on these forums).

russian tanks got armour. hmmmm. i got this Object 685 at 8.7 that is easily defeated with 50 cal. its a light tank. compare this to Class 3 (P) weighing 40 tonnes and sit at the same BR.
i got T-62M at 8.7 with composite armour, though any HEATFS goes through frontally. a Leopard 1 at 7.3 can pen the turret frontally.

if you be more specific which russian tank you are struggling against, and what you are using yourself, i can better judge.

Actually, i am looking up what you're saying, and coming to a different conclusion than you. If you really think the La-15 is that bad for CAS, then don't use it as CAS. Earlier you mentioned you were only using it to grind to the Su-7, so use it in air RB. RP gains in ground RB for planes and choppers are almost non existant, and that's when you have a plane actually fit for CAS. So by using a plane designed for air battles in ground battles, you're just making it harder for yourself with no benefits, and whining on the forum when it inevitably takes a long time to get to the CAS plane you want.

560mm pen for an ATGM on a helicopter is, while not the best, good enough for most engagements IF YOU SHOOT THE ENEMY FROM THE SIDE. The reason that's bold and in full caps is because last time you read clean over it and went to whine about non penning on the strongest part of an enemy tank again. If you're trying to shoot the enemy from the front with your ATGM's, you're doing it wrong. Go to the side of the battlefield, hit enemy tanks in the side and kill them. It's that simple.

Your Russian jets are suffering are they? Well, at least you have a lot of jets to choose from. In the German jet tree, it's either the American line, where you get missile-less Sabres at 9.3, with the only redeeming plane being the F4F at the end, which is literally just a worse version of the F4E, or the Soviet line, where you get some planes so bad not even the Russians wanted to use them, with the only redeeming plane being the new MiG-21bis, once again at the end of the line. So for the Germans, you have to grind through the entire jet tree to get one of 2 jets that finally aren't bad. Or you spend 60 euros on a MiG-21 SPS-K, so you can finally be somewhat competetive. Compared to the German tree, the Russian tree isn't that bad. Then again, at least the Germans have top tier jets, Italy literally doesn't even have a rank 7 for it's jet tree

[N1thecaptain]

nirvana_sth の投稿を引用：

N1thecaptain の投稿を引用：

I grinded my way to the IS-2, then lost interest because I was doing better with German tanks because they fit my playstyle a bit better. I also used the T-10A I got from the first battle pass quite a few times, though I didn't really like it. I flew the ITP M-1 enough to get myself to rank 3 of the Soviet air tree, but once again lost interest because German and American planes fit my playstyle better.

I have no idea where you're getting the killed 20 times by soviet AA in 200 matches from, I never said that, nor has anyone else. In my experience, the M247 and Gepard are indeed better than the Shilka and ZSU-37-2, but those 2 are still plenty viable, I'd say about 50-60% of my jet CAS deaths were from those 2 machines alone.

About the Alouette. I had already discovered that I was playing it wrong. Though I do still think you're exaggerating their effectiveness a bit. That might just be my stubborness though.

"anything before that is either 9M114 misssile with 560mm pen which is super bad even at close range" This sentence is a bit of a giveaway that you don't know what you're talking about, since it implies you think missiles lose pen over distance. They do not. At all. Also, 560mm pen is pretty good, it might not be able to pen the turret front of a Leopard 2A4 or M1A1 Abrams, but you shouldn't be aiming for that in the first place. 800mm pen is even better, plenty to destroy an enemy tank from the side. There's a youtube channel called Hunter, this guy plays top tier vehicles of all nations, he also has a few vids dedicated to choppers, and in every single one of them he finds a spot to the side of the battle, where he's gonna get side shots on his enemy, so he doesn't need to pen much armour.

There is indeed no way to know when an Ozelot spawns, but what I always do when I use CAS is fly perpendicular to the battlefield for a bit, look at what happens to any friendlies going in for CAS, if there are no friendlies, I dive down low, use the trees and terrain as cover and don't come up again until I'm behind the enemy spawn, because then if I get picked up on radar, they'll usually assume it's a friendly who spawned in a plane or chopper.

Once again, I never said Russian bias existed, that was someone else. People that main a certain nation like to think other nations have it better than them. I used to do this too, I used to be just as bad as the average Germany main, because I was just another average Germany main. At some point, I decided to try out these Soviet T-34's I thought were so OP, and later this T26E1-1 that was destroying my panther each round. I played some France, a little bit of Italy, some Britain, a few rounds of Sweden, etc. In doing this, I learned to appreciate what my main had, not only that, but it made me a better player overall in one specific way. It taught me to learn. Instead of getting angry after I die, I now look at what I did wrong, and how I could have prevented it. Now I actually learn from my mistakes instead of rushing to a forum to complain about a tank that killed me once. I'm still not exactly a great WT player, but at least I'm actually getting better. So if you think the Western nations have it so much better, go ahead, play them, you'll find out what they're really like, and by Western nations I don't mean just Germany and the US, but also France, Italy, Sweden, Japan, etc. You'll discover that they're not as strong as you think

again, and again, you continued the discussion without trying to at least looking up what im saying or trying it yourself.
La-15 has no bombs or anything resembling secondary weapon. its just a fighter with 300 rounds and a gun that is horrible to aim. so no, its not for CAS.
you want Mig-15 for CAS, it has 2 tiny bombs and no ballistic computer. get close to target and you are a goner.

again, you showed lack of understanding of russian missiles. mentioning penetration is just for comparison, for example the 9M123 has 1200 mm of pen.
560mm of pen might sound alot for a projectile, but for ATGM its peanuts. its not APFSDS. also it is not tandem, meaning it will not go through alot of tanks with add-on armours or composite armours. very weak missile compared to 9M123 and even 9M120.
9M120 is good at 8.3, but trying it against higher BR opponents, it is ineffective.
it says it has 800mm of pen, however it is unable to go though M1A1's turret front. and its tandem!

russian tech tree is not well known for CAS. cuz its pretty much garbage.
oh, and gaijin just bumped the BR of Yak-23 to 8.7. its an early type jet with only 180 rounds of 23mm rubbish gun. look it up. and it has no secondary weapons. thats what i mean when i say useless junk. look it up! this has the same BR as G91 and A4. case closed. at least my La-15 has modern wings, and its at 8.0.
at 8.7 ARB anything will eat Tak-23. 180 rounds is laughable!
yeh! thats russian bias for you. (and im not saying you believe in russian bias, just saying there are ppl vomiting that cr*p on these forums).

russian tanks got armour. hmmmm. i got this Object 685 at 8.7 that is easily defeated with 50 cal. its a light tank. compare this to Class 3 (P) weighing 40 tonnes and sit at the same BR.
i got T-62M at 8.7 with composite armour, though any HEATFS goes through frontally. a Leopard 1 at 7.3 can pen the turret frontally.

if you be more specific which russian tank you are struggling against, and what you are using yourself, i can better judge.

Whoops, missed half your comment.

What's that you say? A light tank able to be damaged be .50 cals? Almost like that's why it's called a light tank. I have the East German BMP-1. It can get penned from the side by .50BMG. From the front, a 14.5mm will wreck it too. And I love the thing, it's powerful armament and good speed more than make up for it's poor armour. This is called a "no armour best armour" vehicle, a vehicle designed to be fast with the downside of poor armour. These tanks are best when flanking. That's when instead of rushing straight torwards where you think the enemy will be, you go around and pop up behind them. I've seen the 685 get plenty of kills doing so. Maybe try that out some time.

The T-62's weren't that good IRL, and I guess they aren't that good in game either. I never see them in battles, because everyone with a brain is using the T-72. Everyone without a brain is also using a T-72. That was also the main vehicle I had in mind when I was talking about how strong the armour is on post war Soviet designs, together with the T-80 and T-90, which is just a T-72 on Soviet steroids. In other words, drop the T-62 and drive a T-72, you'll do much better.

Why do you assume I'm struggling against Russian tanks? When did I ever say I was? You're the only one saying anything about struggling against commies here. Earlier I even said, and I quote: "NATO can see the commies first (with thermals), but while the commies can point and click, NATO has to aim for tiny weakspots or flank to the side. It's not perfectly balanced at all br's, but the general gist of it is close enough to actual balance that I can see Redfor and Blufor win just as often as eachother" I don't see how this would imply me struggling against the Russians

[Albinomist™®©]

EndangeredPootisBird の投稿を引用：

Almost as if it was the reason it was added in the first place lol

Really? I have a feeling that the Top Tier Japanese tanks will feel bad that you are overlooking them.

[NapoleonBornToParty]

keep crying about russian bias
good luck

[123]

git guud stop crying