Why does the game think the KV-1 and Pz.IV F2 are equal?

[Leffrey]

I know it's a meme to say that gaijin has russian bias, but when so many shots fired by the Pz.IV get bounced but the KV-1 barely has to aim, you really have to wonder why they're at exactly the same BR. Similar story with say the BT-5 and Pz.III, where the panzer, is slower, has worse armour and a worse gun. Or the IS-2 (<200mm pen and 120mm armour) and panther (195mm pen 80-100mm).
I know the germans can alway take out the russians in one clean shot, but when the weakness of the german armour is just the front plate, you have to wonder what's up with that.
similar story with the T-34 and Pz.III, one has a somewhat better gun, the other has way better armour and both are similarly mobile (although Pz.III can't pen the KV-1 chasis, which it will face).
I've mostly just been playing german tanks and the ratio of rounds the enemies bounce (even green shots) vs the times I get one shot because I have practically no armour is very annoying.
Starting to play russians (in light of this situation), but who knows, maybe germans do bounce if I'm not playing as them. So far I've just seen how stupidly OP the BT-5 and BT-7 are.
I'm not saying the Pz.IV is bad, it's just a glass cannon facing a bunker with a decent gun.

Edit: To address some comments: the Pz.IV is not all that much more mobile in practice(don't kid me on this one), so positioning will often just be head on and even then KV-1 has the same side armour as front armour, so angle still bones you while the angling cannot save you in the Panzer. The Pz.III can't pen the chasis (save for weakspots you won't quickly hit). If both of you round the corner, the KV-1 alway wins, if you biff your shot the KV-1 wins, if he shoots first he wins, if you shoot first, your shot get's janked and the KV-1 wins. That's just my experience with the Pz.IV.

[The Warden]

one is a heavy tanks and one is a medium tank otherwords flank your faster in the pz 4

[Leffrey]

Originally posted by The Warden:

one is a heavy tanks and one is a medium tank otherwords flank your faster in the pz 4

I mean you're not really much faster, but ok

[↯Zindy⛦]

the panzer 4 f2 is spammed for a reason, the gun can pen anything frontally, you just have to aim. You're faster, have better turret rotation, flatter shooting trajectory and more penetration, if you can't get easy killstreaks with the panzer 4 f2 with it's seal clubbing abilities nobody can really help you lmao.

[Dapre]

Its only made of StalinSteel....its fun when it bounces 10 shots in a row...hit it in the balls...or the checks.

[Tomoko]

Well one is pure russianbias stalinium and the other is a suffer german. seems pretty much equal.

[Graephen]

Originally posted by Tomoko:

Well one is pure russianbias stalinium and the other is a suffer german. seems pretty much equal.

Exactly.

Can I say it? Please let me :3

"GeRmaNY sUFFers"

[le fishe]

(I assume you are talking about arcade, because in RB the KV1 is at a higher BR.)

The Pz4 F2 has an awesome gun, it can pen virtually everything (135mm pen at 100m) and has good post-pen damage, while the KV1 has a considerably worse gun (76mm pen at 100m) with worse ballistics, meaning you have to aim more carefully.

As far as armor goes, the Pz4 is a glass cannon, everything is a threat to you (but so are you to them).

The KV1 has pretty good armor all around and will bounce unaimed/badly-aimed shots, but it has a LOT of weakspots, especially for the pz4:
You can easily pen the turret cheeks, the turret ring, the flat part of the turret, the drivers port, the hull mg, and if its hull is looking at you straight on you can pen the UFP and the LFP as well.

Also keep in mind the Pz4 has better reload speed, better top speed, better hp-to-tonne ratio, better gun depression and better turret rotation speed.

In short, the KV1 has good armor but a meh gun, while the pz4 has a awesome gun but paper armor. In a 1v1 KV1-Pz4 duel the KV1 might have a slight advantage but that isnt always the case, as you will face other tanks, and so will the KV1.

So TL;DR imo yes they are pretty equal.

[Pierce]

Memes aside the game is obviously unbalanced, in this game it isnt but in many cases it is and they simply dont give a ♥♥♥♥. But the f4 is superior to the kv? Ive never has issues penning it so maybe learn to aim?

[Pierce]

*case

[shadain597]

Sounds like you need to learn weakspots and/or pay attention to angles. The F2 is one of very, very few tanks (not TDs) in that BR that can pretty consistently kill KVs with a little aiming/luck. You shouldn't be able to lolpen a heavy tank with a medium of equal BR anyways. . . And no, the 3.7 KV-1 does not have a good gun; the L-11 has good, HE-filled shells but a mediocre ~76mm MAX pen that quickly becomes useless against anything that isn't a glass cannon or a flat surface at point-blank range.

But yes, the USSR has fantastic starting tanks; what they lack in survivability they make up for with good mobility, adequate pen values, and a nearly guaranteed 1-shot for every penning hit. There's a reason why USSR is my #1 recommendation for new players wanting some tank action. . .

[Sudhir]

The KV1 is certainly way too strong.

Well, I'd say it's one of the few heavy tanks that actually performs the way a heavy tank should. Most other heavies are just ♥♥♥♥.

[Illusionyary]

The Panzer III can't penetrate the BT-5? What?
The BT-5 literally has paper for armour.

[OcGuy]

Aim better lmao
my M4A2 that has the 75mm spud launcher could do well against it (sometimes)

[MaurizioCostanzo]

Hello everyone.

Let's be honest now, germany does just fine up to 6.7 when it comes to ww2 tanks and lower, so we can stop with the whole Germany Suffers thing (being mainly german RB player).
That being said there are a cuple of thing that need to be said when it comes to the PzIV vs KV matchup.

First is that yes while the KwK40 gun has high pen if ur above 300 - 400 meters shooting front plate or mantlet is a bad choice while the sides of the turret is a better choice (since it's less trolly and flatter without the damm magnetic driver port) if ur not confident enough to hit a shot like that u can take out the driver and possibly hitting ammo by shooting the lower plate making the KV a sitting duck (Track and barrel torture is always a possibility too).

Second is that the PzIV is a medium tank ur not supposed to face heavys (specially low tier) from the front and u should always try for a flank. If u find ur self in a head on with a KV u will be surprised how much angling can save ur life against russian 76mm's.

And third thing is, ur versing the russians, that means 90% of the time they will push really hard (specially KV's being faster then they look) so let them come to u and set up in a good ambush position, russian teams tend to over extend a lot so use that to ur advantage.

Always remember if u have a problem with a specific tank use the armor protection analisys, it helps a lot to learn the weakspots and strongspots on the enemy tanks and even ur own without getting blown up 50 times in the process.

Hope i've been of help, have a good day.

[Leffrey]

Originally posted by Illusionyary:

The Panzer III can't penetrate the BT-5? What? :fengxi:
The BT-5 literally has paper for armour.

Nvm theoretical pen stats are just trash
I saw the Pz.III had 18mm pen at 60 degrees and BT-5 has ~29mm at 60 degrees front armour. Turns out it does pen in practice (or at least according to protection analysis)