War Thunder

War Thunder

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JohnPasSmith Jul 30, 2021 @ 12:03pm
How to play BF-109 planes ?
Hi,
I need help to know how to play BF-109 (currently BF-109 F1, I struggle to play this plane because it doesn't have enough gun power (only 7,92mm x2 and 20mm), is there a spacific way to play this plane ?
Thanks !
Originally posted by Futuristic Hexagon:
Originally posted by Ānesuto:
Originally posted by jOkA:
Keep on using it and you might improve your aiming skills.
F1 doesnt have a lot off guns, but they are good enough.
The small guns are good enough to get some pilot kills and make planes burn.

Its part of my favourite german line-up: Bf 109E-3, E-4, F-1 and F-2 with a Ju 88 A4 as bomber. Its fun to play.

Try it and have some fun.
I'm not enough skilled yet to ail with plane, i just shoot when i can :/
It takes a while in a game like this or even the IL-2 and DCS series.

I still say keep at it, though maybe skip spading the 109F2 for the moment as it has fairly lackluster armament that take some getting used to.

I would recommend the following, stick with the earlier 109 Emils and F1 for a bit till you get used to it. At the same time invest in your crew skills as it'll help make life in game easier (and expert if you can, planes are still relatively cheap to do so lower down there.)

The other part I can't stress enough. For most armament in game, it's best to fire within 400m (make sure you set your convergence appropriately.) Your shots will hit harder, and with better accuracy (in other words,, better damage.) Many players moving in from AAB make the mistake of spraying and praying from 800m out because that's where the lead indicator shows up in AB. This only leads to wasted ammo and not much in terms of good results.

In fact I'd say that's the number 1 mistake most newbies to Air RB make. The other is insisting every maneuver needs to be a headon. If you know how to dodge them (not hard), it's usually funny because they keep trying to force them, even when they got your tail, only to have them crash or get shot down once you get a few good deflection shots (or on their tail.)
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Showing 1-15 of 19 comments
Nenne. (Banned) Jul 30, 2021 @ 12:10pm 
press button engine goes brum brum and you fly
press another button guns go bang bang bang..

all you need to know for that plane.
Last edited by Nenne.; Jul 30, 2021 @ 12:10pm
JohnPasSmith Jul 30, 2021 @ 12:14pm 
Originally posted by Nenne.:
press button engine goes brum brum and you fly
press another button guns go bang bang bang..

all you need to know for that plane.
Doesn't work very nice, the guns are not enough powerful to take down a plane (talking about the 7,62)
RGC2005 Jul 30, 2021 @ 12:15pm 
Checkout LONG5HOT on youtube.
Futuristic Hexagon Jul 30, 2021 @ 12:39pm 
AB? RB? Also describe a typical battle with it? Do you try to use energy tactics?

109Fs are strong in terms of guns, and starting at the Fs is where they start to shine. The F1 gets an MG FF/M instead of the MG151s seen later on. My recommendation would be to get belts with the most minengeschoß rounds regardless on the 20mm. These things are usually grenades that tear apart the target aircraft.

Also, I would recommend firing within 400m, even better if closer. Many people people try to spray and pray from a distance, but you end up wasting ammo on shots that miss, not to mention armor piercing rounds may not be as effective due to energy loss.
Last edited by Futuristic Hexagon; Jul 30, 2021 @ 12:40pm
JohnPasSmith Jul 30, 2021 @ 1:46pm 
Originally posted by Leonov:
AB? RB? Also describe a typical battle with it? Do you try to use energy tactics?

109Fs are strong in terms of guns, and starting at the Fs is where they start to shine. The F1 gets an MG FF/M instead of the MG151s seen later on. My recommendation would be to get belts with the most minengeschoß rounds regardless on the 20mm. These things are usually grenades that tear apart the target aircraft.

Also, I would recommend firing within 400m, even better if closer. Many people people try to spray and pray from a distance, but you end up wasting ammo on shots that miss, not to mention armor piercing rounds may not be as effective due to energy loss.
I unlock all ammunition type for the plane, it's already better, but i think i'll grind for the F2 with 200 round for 20mm
Originally posted by Ānesuto:
Originally posted by Leonov:
AB? RB? Also describe a typical battle with it? Do you try to use energy tactics?

109Fs are strong in terms of guns, and starting at the Fs is where they start to shine. The F1 gets an MG FF/M instead of the MG151s seen later on. My recommendation would be to get belts with the most minengeschoß rounds regardless on the 20mm. These things are usually grenades that tear apart the target aircraft.

Also, I would recommend firing within 400m, even better if closer. Many people people try to spray and pray from a distance, but you end up wasting ammo on shots that miss, not to mention armor piercing rounds may not be as effective due to energy loss.
I unlock all ammunition type for the plane, it's already better, but i think i'll grind for the F2 with 200 round for 20mm
That one gets a MG151/15 (15mm.) Not a bad gun too. When you get to the F4 variant you get access to the MG151/20.

You do not get the minengeschoß rounds with the 15mm version. It does have an armored target belt though with AP-I(c) that looks like it could be useful for setting things on fire, as well as penetrating some armored targets (light pillboxes, medium tanks, etc.) Been a while since I touched the F2, so may need to take it out again.
Last edited by Futuristic Hexagon; Jul 30, 2021 @ 1:58pm
JohnPasSmith Jul 30, 2021 @ 2:05pm 
Originally posted by Leonov:
Originally posted by Ānesuto:
I unlock all ammunition type for the plane, it's already better, but i think i'll grind for the F2 with 200 round for 20mm
That one gets a MG151/15 (15mm.) Not a bad gun too. When you get to the F4 variant you get access to the MG151/20.

You do not get the minengeschoß rounds with the 15mm version. It does have an armored target belt though with AP-I(c) that looks like it could be useful for setting things on fire, as well as penetrating some armored targets (light pillboxes, medium tanks, etc.) Been a while since I touched the F2, so may need to take it out again.
Ah yes didn't noticed it was replace with a 15mm, but i prefer more ammunition.
What are the "best" round to take down fighters ?
Originally posted by Ānesuto:
Originally posted by Leonov:
That one gets a MG151/15 (15mm.) Not a bad gun too. When you get to the F4 variant you get access to the MG151/20.

You do not get the minengeschoß rounds with the 15mm version. It does have an armored target belt though with AP-I(c) that looks like it could be useful for setting things on fire, as well as penetrating some armored targets (light pillboxes, medium tanks, etc.) Been a while since I touched the F2, so may need to take it out again.
Ah yes didn't noticed it was replace with a 15mm, but i prefer more ammunition.
What are the "best" round to take down fighters ?
This changes for each gun. Not all guns and rounds, even of the same caliber behave the same in game.

With german 20mm, anything that has minengeschoß rounds is typically preferred against planes.

The 15mm, looks like there is a split there between the Armored Targets belt with the AP-I(c) rounds (does great for killing engines and pilotsnipes) and the Air Targets belt (which may work well against control surfaces.)

The F4 series is really fun when you get to it. Ended up nearly spading one of these things fresh out of the box with a near ace match.

shadain597 Jul 30, 2021 @ 2:55pm 
Originally posted by Ānesuto:
Originally posted by Nenne.:
press button engine goes brum brum and you fly
press another button guns go bang bang bang..

all you need to know for that plane.
Doesn't work very nice, the guns are not enough powerful to take down a plane (talking about the 7,62)
The 7.62s can take down most planes around your BR, but they definitely need to hit the right parts, especially exposed pilots or engines. The 20mm is very powerful, but you have to make the most of the limited ammo. It's been a little while since I used it, but I recall having just enough 20mm ammo for 2 kills, or 3 if you are lucky/skilled.

While it is pretty agile, many planes are at least as maneuverable around it's BR, so try to focus on boom and zoom tactics. If an enemy in a lower energy state is running without trying to turn and fight, don't fly directly onto their tail or pass right next to them; pull up and climb for several hundred meters (don't lose all of your speed) before rolling back down in another short dive for the next attack. Don't let Spitfires, Yaks, I-16s, or most Japanese planes trick you into staying in an extended dogfight; if they do a hard dodge, do not follow.

Attacking from above make them a larger target than attacking from directly behind, and it's easier to do critical damage. If you are certain you can out-turn an opponent, then hitting them in the middle of a turn also achieves the same effect. Because of the limited ammo on the cannon, but plentiful 7mm ammo, don't be afraid to spray the MGs whenever you think your aim is pretty close and save the 20mm ammo for when you are very confident it will hit. Even then, fire it in short bursts, because either you hit and kill with only a couple shots, or you miss and waste all of that ammo. Don't underestimate the 7mm MGs' ability to make an enemy panic and dump more speed into crazy maneuvers, or its ability to chip away at your opponent's top speed, maneuverability, and mental state.

I repeat, the F1 is one of many fighters where you need to fire your guns separately, due to having lots of weak bullets paired with a few, powerful cannon rounds. Well, you need to be able to fire the MGs separately, but it's fine if firing the cannon also fires the MGs.
ScoldedMilk Jul 30, 2021 @ 5:29pm 
Press the 2 key to fire only the cannons so you're not distracted or confused by the useless machine guns. Of course the cannons are pretty bad as well. If you're at high alt and out of cannons, jump out. You won't waste time climbing down, landing, reloading, climbing back up... if someone has hit you they'll get the kill so no one can be mad.
ScoldedMilk Jul 30, 2021 @ 5:32pm 
Originally posted by shadain597:
Originally posted by Ānesuto:
Doesn't work very nice, the guns are not enough powerful to take down a plane (talking about the 7,62)
The 7.62s can take down most planes around your BR, but they definitely need to hit the right parts, especially exposed pilots or engines. The 20mm is very powerful, but you have to make the most of the limited ammo. It's been a little while since I used it, but I recall having just enough 20mm ammo for 2 kills, or 3 if you are lucky/skilled.

While it is pretty agile, many planes are at least as maneuverable around it's BR, so try to focus on boom and zoom tactics. If an enemy in a lower energy state is running without trying to turn and fight, don't fly directly onto their tail or pass right next to them; pull up and climb for several hundred meters (don't lose all of your speed) before rolling back down in another short dive for the next attack. Don't let Spitfires, Yaks, I-16s, or most Japanese planes trick you into staying in an extended dogfight; if they do a hard dodge, do not follow.

Attacking from above make them a larger target than attacking from directly behind, and it's easier to do critical damage. If you are certain you can out-turn an opponent, then hitting them in the middle of a turn also achieves the same effect. Because of the limited ammo on the cannon, but plentiful 7mm ammo, don't be afraid to spray the MGs whenever you think your aim is pretty close and save the 20mm ammo for when you are very confident it will hit. Even then, fire it in short bursts, because either you hit and kill with only a couple shots, or you miss and waste all of that ammo. Don't underestimate the 7mm MGs' ability to make an enemy panic and dump more speed into crazy maneuvers, or its ability to chip away at your opponent's top speed, maneuverability, and mental state.

I repeat, the F1 is one of many fighters where you need to fire your guns separately, due to having lots of weak bullets paired with a few, powerful cannon rounds. Well, you need to be able to fire the MGs separately, but it's fine if firing the cannon also fires the MGs.
sub-pistol caliber guns aren't going to take out a system, you have to hit the pilot. I've never gotten a 7.whatever kill past tier 1 that wasn't a pilot snipe.
shadain597 Jul 30, 2021 @ 5:47pm 
Originally posted by DeathToDermit:
Press the 2 key to fire only the cannons so you're not distracted or confused by the useless machine guns. Of course the cannons are pretty bad as well. If you're at high alt and out of cannons, jump out. You won't waste time climbing down, landing, reloading, climbing back up... if someone has hit you they'll get the kill so no one can be mad.
In my opinion, this is absolutely terrible advice. If the match is far from decided, then you just gave up and decided for the whole team that you would rather lose and maximize your repair bill while minimizing your rewards for the match. There's plenty of times that I've landed, repaired, and gone on to play a critical role in achieving victory for the team, and quite a few were in slower planes than a 109.

Originally posted by DeathToDermit:
sub-pistol caliber guns aren't going to take out a system, you have to hit the pilot. I've never gotten a 7.whatever kill past tier 1 that wasn't a pilot snipe.
Kinda depends on the MGs; Soviet 7mm guns shred just about anything at 3-400m, even if you are flying a 2.7 plane facing 3.whatever planes. There's been times where I was literally trying to get a little assist with a short burst and instead outright killed them.

But, even German LMGs, heck, even the terrible Japanese LMGs, can cause critical damage, such as to the engine. Not sure how often I've gotten a kill off of that alone, but the more damaged your enemy is, the harder it is for them to dodge your limited cannon ammo, or turn the tables. I didn't say anything about trying to get kills with the MGs alone, did I? It's a way to harass and weaken your opponent when you don't have cannon ammo to spare on wild, half-aimed shots. A lot of opponents will panic and react to MG fire the same way as they would cannon or .50 cal fire, which is useful in it's own right.

I suppose I should have pointed out that if you have the drop on someone who hasn't reacted to your presence, you should hold fire and wait for a good shot with the cannons, rather than spooking them into defensive maneuvers with the MGs.
ScoldedMilk Jul 30, 2021 @ 6:13pm 
Originally posted by shadain597:
In my opinion, this is absolutely terrible advice. If the match is far from decided, then you just gave up and decided for the whole team that you would rather lose and maximize your repair bill while minimizing your rewards for the match. There's plenty of times that I've landed, repaired, and gone on to play a critical role in achieving victory for the team, and quite a few were in slower planes than a 109.
It probably is, for a lot of people. I've been slowly realizing that I hate this game, that I have absolutely no patience for it, that even my few "good" matches are more stressful than satisfying, that I have the wrong sort of brain to wring fun out of competition with strangers, and the fact that this is literally the only game on Earth that does combat flying games correctly isn't a good enough excuse for me to keep playing it.
Originally posted by Ānesuto:
Originally posted by Leonov:
That one gets a MG151/15 (15mm.) Not a bad gun too. When you get to the F4 variant you get access to the MG151/20.

You do not get the minengeschoß rounds with the 15mm version. It does have an armored target belt though with AP-I(c) that looks like it could be useful for setting things on fire, as well as penetrating some armored targets (light pillboxes, medium tanks, etc.) Been a while since I touched the F2, so may need to take it out again.
Ah yes didn't noticed it was replace with a 15mm, but i prefer more ammunition.
What are the "best" round to take down fighters ?
Okay, I took to the skies in the F2 this afternoon in ARB just to see how the Air Belts and Armored Target belts compare for a bit quickly and can give my honest opinions.

My observations of the plane after what may as well be years of sitting pretty as a hangar queen (I remember I particularly didn't enjoy the F2 as much as the other planes in the series, even the early late 30s A variant.)

Aerodynamic properties itself:
The plane feels quite sluggish compared to the Emils before it, and to other Friedrich variants seen later. By the time the Emils on the team took off from a similar starting point, they were 250m, maybe more ahead ahead (meanwhile I likely just passed 110 km/h).

This also is reflected in the climb rate not being the best out there, but still respectable compared with most of it's US and Soviet competition and can stay at a good angle climbing at around 275 km/h. Like most other 109s with the DB-601 engine, it's not advised to sit on the WEP as it's a little prone to overheat fairly quick when you need it most.

It seems to perform well at various altitudes (as do most 109 variants) once speed is built up. It seems not to suffer from too severe of control stiffening at high speeds (675 km/h+) and found it can easily hit 825 km/h before the wings start to flutter heavily. With proper speed and flap management, I found that it can also keep up with Spitfires Mk I and IIbs without too much issue, and the flaps are pretty generous allowing for decent deployment at around 500 km/h without too much of an issue.

Energy retention is also excellent too, allowing for some good hit and runs, and baiting lower energy opponents to try chasing you down as you gently climb away.

Armor:
Likely the reason the plane feels sluggish really. I had a few matches where it had managed to have taken a beating, including a Spit Mk IIb I really couldn't shake off too well and had blown off my wingtip. Managed to return from that one. Could help it in approaching some bombers too I would say.

Guns and Ammo:
Compared to others guns, I still find the MG151/15 to be quite lackluster. I tested both Armored targets and Air Targets, seemingly favorites from what I can find around.

Getting good chances where I could get some clear shots without risk of half of the team shouldershooting me (German teams fly well together) or putting me in a TK position, I found that there wasn't much of a magic bullet (pun fully intended) to either of the MG151/15 belts. It comes down to what damage you think you can more confidently pull off better.

The Armored target belts seem to to do a good job at causing leaks and engine fires, and pilot snipes. I found that something may have happened to the round's penetration ability or the armor found on AI ground vehicles, as it could not do much useful damage against medium ground tanks as I remember it could have. Likewise, it does feel like it dispatches other lighter armored ground targets far quicker, allowing for a good multistrike against certain targets if you line yourself up well.

Air Target belts had a similar feeling to the the Armored Targets against air targets to me with one slight difference being it seemed more useful for damaging control surfaces a little better.

Conclusion
109F2 isn't necessarily too bad, I would say it is okay where it is at 3.0 right now. It isn't the worst plane in that BR range, but it does seem to struggle a little more compared to the MG FF/M and MG151/20 equipped planes, both of which get minengeschoß (aka HEI) rounds which absolutely tear apart fighters without much issue for these specific guns. I would say like most 109s, it does great as an energy fighter that excels in hit and run tactics, but I would not count on it being a one pass wonder in most cases except for when the enemy is too distracted and at a very low energy state. A more experienced player may find it a fine plane that has some satisfying challenges to flying it, but someone less experienced to it will likely find the lower firing rate compared to the MG FF/M found on the F1 and inferior rounds to be quite hard to used to.

If you get used to the F2's quirks, I feel all other 109Fs and maybe even Gs should be child's play from there Especially as the MG151/20s and MG FF/M get a minengeschoß round on the default belt (though move onto the one with the most of those shells when you can.)
jOkA Aug 1, 2021 @ 12:10pm 
Keep on using it and you might improve your aiming skills.
F1 doesnt have a lot off guns, but they are good enough.
The small guns are good enough to get some pilot kills and make planes burn.

Its part of my favourite german line-up: Bf 109E-3, E-4, F-1 and F-2 with a Ju 88 A4 as bomber. Its fun to play.

Try it and have some fun.
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Date Posted: Jul 30, 2021 @ 12:03pm
Posts: 19