SPAA vs planes. A unfair battle?

[HungryHunter]

I am the only onethinking there is a problem with Planes onehitting tanks while SPAA needs endless shots to even get close to a hit?

Planes can use it speed and the third dimension to hide and evade
while
the SPAA is slow and most the time locked to one place.
It also dont help that SPAA have to fear other tanks ontop of the sky.

A Bomb or a rocked exploding in the same postcode kills SPAA
but
the SPAA need a direct hit on a far away fastmoving agile small target
Yeah a plane goes often down in one hit but its often (for me) just a lucky hit on a plane that isnt evading at all (becouse most the time they think there will no SPAA able to hit them in the first place)

We also have the problem of Planes are often the only real plane killers and SPAA are just kills waiting to be claimed.
When we now consider spawn camping/killing and the "rich get richer" spawnpoint problem i ask: why are they planes in tank battle in the first place?
Why is there no true combined arms mode where dedicated planes players support there player tanks.
Why did it feel so cheap beeing stuck in a gamemode that offers one play style all the rewarts while others have to fear beeing out of the game at any moment (even if they on the move trying to even reach the frontline (not just campers))

[Sir Nurtle]

well, low tier SPAA is deadly, since all you have to do is fly towards one and you are done for most of the time. At high tiers when they get missles, they become deadly t the point were they kill you from 20km away

[rigolgm]

My M247 spaa (8.7br) absolutely slaughters enemy aircraft. The M163 is good too. But my M42 is dire spaa.

[burg4401]

seem like you find spaa hard so the game has to change for you.

[HungryHunter]

Messaggio originale di burg4401:

seem like you find spaa hard so the game has to change for you.

not realy
Its one thing to have a hard time shooting them down
is a other that the planes just flys by ones and kills or cripples you beyond repair.
Bonus points when they are "killed" but can still kill you with kamikaze bomb/mg salvo.

One time i had a rocket explode behind my SPAA and yeah... dead by beeing "close" to it while i cant hit ♥♥♥♥.
Other time i was aiming at one plane and another just killed my gunner. Fun time watching your doom comming closer.
I also like the time i spawed and got killed by a bomb.
The only way i see is to be in plane to fight planes. At last in low and mid teir.

[hsf_]

High tier SPAA's have radar locking and often require one small burst(or 1 missile that has a 12km firing range) to kill an aircraft.

At the lower tiers you have strong SPAA's like the Kugelblitz, Wirblewind and Crusader AA Mk.II, however learning how to 'lead shot' is important and knowing when to shoot is also important.

CAS hasn't been an 'issue' for me for a while, although being revenge bombed by someone you just killed is a little bit annoying.

[burg4401]

Messaggio originale di Mods:

Messaggio originale di HungryHunter:

not realy
Its one thing to have a hard time shooting them down
is a other that the planes just flys by ones and kills or cripples you beyond repair.
Bonus points when they are "killed" but can still kill you with kamikaze bomb/mg salvo.

One time i had a rocket explode behind my SPAA and yeah... dead by beeing "close" to it while i cant hit ♥♥♥♥.
Other time i was aiming at one plane and another just killed my gunner. Fun time watching your doom comming closer.
I also like the time i spawed and got killed by a bomb.
The only way i see is to be in plane to fight planes. At last in low and mid teir.

ignore burg, they'll just keep getting more vitriolic.
CAS is an issue and has been for years, it gets worse as BR compression gets worse and gaijin decides "yeah lets make a 40-year range of vehicles fight eachother")))

you mean some of us don't have the problems with the game you do,
some of us learn to deal with it,
while some of us demand the game change rather than get better at the game.

cas is not the issue you lot are, the lot that can't or won't deal with cas.
You are also dragging your teams down, you cost teams points and wins.

You are being carried by others in this game if you don't use spaa and fly cover.

you knew what this game was like when you started playing it,
found that some parts were hard and not easy,
then demand the game change.

How about you get better at the game and stop trying to ruin it.

sorry, some of us like the game as it is.

It has always been combined arms,
the description is in the wiki, not too hard to find.

Gaijin has given you the answer many times over the years and yet like 5 year olds you keep asking the same question.

As hsf_ said, cas has not been an issue for me either once I learnt how to deal with it and stopped crying but I kept my anger at home, I did not feel the need to tell the world how crap I was.

[Ponto]

Another L2P issue. They are endless.

[hsf_]

Messaggio originale di Ponto:

Another L2P issue. They are endless.

I must be right if you say it is then.

[YeahJustme]

Messaggio originale di Mirage:

SPAA only get kills on dumb pilots generally, they are easily avoided.

Spaa can easily kill inside its effective range.
If there is an SPAA player who actually knows what is going on, planes cant really dive.

But more often than not, there either is no SPAA or they dont know how to use the thing

[hsf_]

Messaggio originale di YeahJustme:

Messaggio originale di Mirage:

SPAA only get kills on dumb pilots generally, they are easily avoided.

Spaa can easily kill inside its effective range.
If there is an SPAA player who actually knows what is going on, planes cant really dive.

But more often than not, there either is no SPAA or they dont know how to use the thing

This right here, is a man with a big brain.

Also most SPAA players, especially Gepard and Falcon players will often focus on killing ground targets because they are so effective at doing so.

[shadain597]

Messaggio originale di Mirage:

SPAA only get kills on dumb pilots generally, they are easily avoided.
Balance isn't really there as planes are extremely easy to use as well and SPAA rather challenging with no good way to learn.

This, really. Even the solid SPAAs have a pretty steep learning curve in RB, excluding the idiots that dive directly at you while you are facing them. As someone who isn't using a 70-inch, 4K screen to play the game, it can be very hard to figure out exactly where your shots are flying in relation to a target moving in 3 dimensions, so figuring out lead is a lot of guesswork--and that's assuming they are actually in effective range, which something you also have to guess at based on their relative size.

I wouldn't mind playing SPAAs a lot more if each one didn't have a ridiculous, zero reward, learning curve on it---and if I could actually trust my team to keep the enemy tanks/TDs off my back. As it is, I'm normally "needed" elsewhere, trying to keep the enemy from completely pushing us into spawn.

[xeon_mlt]

As far as planes are concerned, Gaijin only took care of implementing the plane aspect of it. The myriad of things implemented by various countries to counter the planes, are hardly there.. with the exception of:
- Having planes fighting planes;
- Having AA's shoot down planes.
Things such as:
- Having static AA's, especially in urban areas;
- Having ground units firing at low flying aircraft;
- The actual ineffectiveness of planes at actual ground pounding;
- Proper means of arming an AA fuse (pressing T, waiting a few seconds to get the range, and then shoot, won't work, since by the time you're finished with ranging, the plane has kept moving).

These are all things which in reality kept planes from flying a treetop levels and drop bombs. The fact that the environment doesn't seem to absorb the bomb blast (or aircraft rounds for that matter is also lacking.

So yeah, this isn't a Learn To Play issue, it is simply a fact that in Ground Forces, planes are implemented in a broken, half a$$ed way. My understanding is that the ones that fly planes are the ones the dump more money into the game, so it stands to reason that Gaijin, being a profit first, game experience "lol wut?" kind of company, allows for the tipping of such a balance.

[HungryHunter]

My personal problem isnt the gameplay of SPAA.
I like it but i miss some feedback and some help from the game itself.
"did my shot even get close?"
"How far and fast ist my target in the first place"
The short days where there was a "lock on target" thing was soo helpfull i only can imagen they removed it becouse plane players screamed there lungs out.
If you think i shoud just get better at the game tell me how.
At higher BR where better players play its harder and harder to be SPAA.

[Legion]

The main reason most SPAA's 'suck' is because of the players. I see far too many SPAA's open up on aircraft when they are 1km + out AND they aren't even leading the aircraft so the shots are way off target. In one match I had the other week 2 AH-1G's where spawn camping our spawn, 2 SPAA's (a ZSU-75 and a Falcon iirc) spawned in an both started firing at the helicopters, both of the SPAA's failed at killing EITHER of the helicopters and both where killed by them. It's not like they where miles away, they where both circle strafing the spawn at 100/200 meter distance if that.

I can happily and easily say most SPAA 'issues' are mostly due to players utterly sucking at using them and the issue is purely L2P/Git gud situation.

[Legion]

Messaggio originale di Mirage:

I'm sure that one scenario applies to every situation ever.

How about you read ALL of what I said and not cherry pick ...I'll quote it for you as it was obviously to hard for you..

Messaggio originale di Legion:

The main reason most SPAA's 'suck' is because of the players. I see far too many SPAA's open up on aircraft when they are 1km + out AND they aren't even leading the aircraft so the shots are way off target.