Banned!

[Farflame]

A couple of months ago, my account was hacked. I noticed my tanks kept changing, but I wasn't played the game much so didn't really pay much attention. Every time I did log in, my German tanks had changed back from my selections. I eventually realised that someone had hacked my account. I asked Gaijin to freeze my account completely until they could sort it out, which they did.

Having got my account back, I played a couple of destroyer battles, but then logged in yesterday to find that I'd been banned for using hacks / mods. I just assumed that this was due to a report built up against the hacker, who'd probably just been cheating whilst playing on my account.

But then I got a message back from support today to say that the cheating had occurred on my machine, presumably in the battles that I played the other night.

Obviously it makes no difference to plead my innocence here, but I'm wondering if this has happened to anybody else and if they know how it happens? Like I said above, I haven't really played properly for months and obviously I haven't installed any mods or hacks, so does anybody know why this has happened?

I suppose the good news is, they actually do ban people for cheating, which is good to know. I'm talking to support but they're basically telling me it's tough, I shouldn't have cheated (which I didn't, but I have to somehow prove that now).

I've been playing for 8 years and have built up pretty much every vehicle in every tree, so it's pretty sad to get kicked out for something I haven't done.

[Lunovus]

You won't get banned if they don't find anything in your replays.

Even if a whole squadron of premium accounts reports you.

There are a lot of idiots that see cheaters everywhere.
If they'd ban everybody that is reported, current player levels would probably be more than halved.

[SteT]

Farflame님이 먼저 게시:

Mind you, several people (including what I think was a Gaijin GM on the official forum) have made the point that being hacked is 'my fault'. I understand that, but if it then follows that whatever the hacker does is also 'my fault', then maybe they could use that against me (mind you, if they actually read the full story, I'm not sure why they'd WANT to ban me, assuming they believe that I'm innocent).

The problem is, and this is something on other games, people pay others to cheat on their account to unlock whatever and then claim they got hacked and do an account recovery.

So yeah, the onus is on you to ensure your account is secure. That means using 2-step and also a unique password for this game, do NOT use a password you use on other games/websites.

You should of acted as soon as you noticed something suspicious on your account, not leave it for a few months.

But you probably know all this anyway. Hope you find something else to play and enjoy.

[Farflame]

Sure, even so, the hack itself isn't the problem, unless it was the hacker that then got me banned. And even if this the case, it's a bit extreme to accuse people of cheating, ban them permanently and then say 'It's your own fault'. I get it, legally, they have a right to do that, but I wouldn't say that's a good policy. They could at least have a bit of courtesy and not take a 'guilty until proven innocent' attitude.

It doesn't matter, as I said above, I don't play anyway. It's not one of my main games, kind of a shame but no big deal.

[Lunovus]

The problem is:
They checked the replays, and there was someone cheating on your account.

There are multiple scenarios why this could have happened.

One possibility is the one highlighted by SteT.

Another would be you making up a story of an alleged hack, after you cheated but read on the forum of "Bestest cheat program 4 WT" that a banwave was starting. Because the snail got to know how to find "Bestest cheat program 4 WT" (V 123.45) running in the background on a PC running the WT client.

Or your neighbour being a computer wiz, hacking your unprotected WLAN, extracting your login credentials, client ID & hardware ID with his uber Wireshark skills from the data sent from your client to WT's servers.
And then playing with cheats, on your account, with your IDs, even using your unprotected WLAN.

All possible.

How would the snail know the "whole truth"?

[Farflame]

Yeah but we've been through that. I accept that from Gaijin's perspective I could just be lying and actually using a bot. But for an account which is 4000 hours old with no reports, I don't think I'm being unreasonable to expect a modicum of support. Sure, they have a lot to do and a lot of real cheats to deal with. But surely there comes a point where customer support is advisable? Just saying 'Go away, you're a cheat', to everybody, regardless of circumstances, is a bit harsh (and bad business), don't you think?

I would agree that it's a tough one at their end. For example, all I'm asking for now is publication of the 'cheat' moment. They could publish it to let others decide. Might be a lot of hard work though to publish every cheat-ban-moment.

But still, if they don't change this, it means that anybody, at any time, can be banned, for doing nothing wrong and you have zero means of defending yourself.

[Lunovus]

Farflame님이 먼저 게시:

But still, if they don't change this, it means that anybody, at any time, can be banned, for doing nothing wrong and you have zero means of defending yourself.

For most online games this is actually true.

A lot of them have terms in their ToS like "terminate your account, or the whole service, giving no reason, without giving a notice ahead".

It's all virtual goods that can be gone from now to then.

Even the virtual goods you bought with real money are not yours.
You just bought the rights to use them.

If the company closes your account, or the whole server/service:
Poof!

[Farflame]

Yeah that's true. Legally, I understand that I have no leg to stand on. But still, I would have thought (naively I agree), that they'd have a more sensible business policy. I run my own business and I wouldn't like to think that I'm kicking out honest customers. In their position, I'd hire (if it's financially viable), more support and actually have support for 'cheats' who appeal. But maybe that's not financially viable. Or maybe, because I don't pay, I've fallen into the 'not worth it' category (which is actually true, because I doubt I ever would have bought eagles again, even before this). Maybe paying customers get proper support.

[Lunovus]

If a game company running an online game believes you have been cheating, they kick you.

A large percentage of the cheaters then just claims "Me dun' nuttin'!".

Do the companies spent time (and monies) to send them logs & replays to prove them wrong (and give them an idea how they got busted, to avoid it the next time they try to cheat)?
Of course not.

They add a clause to their ToS that if they find you cheating, you got no right to appeal, and that their decisions to terminate your accounts are final.

Have there been false bans in the past?
Hell yeah!
Even waves of 10k+ bans that companies had to revert later.

Singular instances of false bans?
You bet!

Have companies been convinced that a ban was false in the past and reverted it even with those clauses in the ToS?
Sure thing.

But you better not rely on that working for you.
With "you" being about everybody getting banned in an online game.

[Farflame]

Sure, that's the reality.

[jr83]

The issue is you assume ALL responsibility for the account you create, and that includes actions committed on the account that were not committed by you.

I'm not saying this is good. I'm not saying this is agreeable. But I'm saying that is their position.

And do remember, that story of the guy who got his ban lifted for the "impossible shot" that was actually possible is because... the shot was actually possible. Your account was, from what information you provided, was banned due to hacks used while playing the account. The fact it wasn't personally and physically you is irrelevant.

[Farflame]

Well, since I have no further information, we're only assuming at this point that the 'cheat' game was during the hacking period. We don't know that. It might have been flagged in the handful of games that I played after the hacking period.

But yeah, if the hacker caused it and that's the problem, I understand the rules.

Again though, you'd think an 8-year report-free account would be given some consideration if that's what happened. This would require them to pay attention though. And care (I'm not paying, so why would they?)

[jr83]

Farflame님이 먼저 게시:

Again though, you'd think an 8-year report-free account would be given some consideration if that's what happened. This would require them to pay attention though. And care (I'm not paying, so why would they?)

To any reasonable person yes. I share your sentiment.

Thing is, Gaijin is taking the position they'd rather have innocents AND guilty punished than let a single guilty slip by. The fact that it's POSSIBLE you went 8 years clean and then decided to hack is good enough for them.

There's a cultural aspect at play here in how some cultures view things and react differently than others, which I will not elaborate on for obvious reasons.

[Lunovus]

Your IP, client ID, hardware ID.

Different of that from the hacker?

If yes, you may got a chance.

If not..

[jr83]

Lunovus님이 먼저 게시:

Your IP, client ID, hardware ID.

Different of that from the hacker?

If yes, you may got a chance.

If not..

Again they will just default to you being responsible for your account; they could have connected a thousand miles away from him with clearly different hardware and other signs and they wouldn't care because it's his account.

[Lunovus]

jr83님이 먼저 게시:

Again they will just default to you being responsible for your account; they could have connected a thousand miles away from him with clearly different hardware and other signs and they wouldn't care because it's his account.

The people working for the snail are just puny little smelly meatbags.
Like all of us.

So they may cut him some slack not attending to his game account, that has obviously been hacked for some time, before he reacted.

Or in WT's terms:
RNGesus may still smile upon him

Or not.