Banned!

[Farflame]

A couple of months ago, my account was hacked. I noticed my tanks kept changing, but I wasn't played the game much so didn't really pay much attention. Every time I did log in, my German tanks had changed back from my selections. I eventually realised that someone had hacked my account. I asked Gaijin to freeze my account completely until they could sort it out, which they did.

Having got my account back, I played a couple of destroyer battles, but then logged in yesterday to find that I'd been banned for using hacks / mods. I just assumed that this was due to a report built up against the hacker, who'd probably just been cheating whilst playing on my account.

But then I got a message back from support today to say that the cheating had occurred on my machine, presumably in the battles that I played the other night.

Obviously it makes no difference to plead my innocence here, but I'm wondering if this has happened to anybody else and if they know how it happens? Like I said above, I haven't really played properly for months and obviously I haven't installed any mods or hacks, so does anybody know why this has happened?

I suppose the good news is, they actually do ban people for cheating, which is good to know. I'm talking to support but they're basically telling me it's tough, I shouldn't have cheated (which I didn't, but I have to somehow prove that now).

I've been playing for 8 years and have built up pretty much every vehicle in every tree, so it's pretty sad to get kicked out for something I haven't done.

[Farflame]

I should have posted on reddit, or some other forum where they have no power. They can't stop me discussing it in a public space. But meh, doubt I'll bother, maybe I'll feel like it in the morning.

[Farflame]

It's kinda hard to pester them when they just ignore you and close your posts though. If I feel angry about it tomorrow, maybe I'll go to reddit, where they have no power to close down discussion.

[Farflame]

So I went onto reddit. Can't post yet because I think you have to build up some points for reputation or something. Since Gaijin will pull down any posts where they have the power to do so, reddit or here are the only outlets.

Sadly, I discovered things about WT that I'd rather not have known. The game is sadly full of aimbotters. They post videos of how the bots let them see through walls, even mountains at extreme ranges. The bots do allow for better aim but they point out that if you aim accurately over and over, you'll be banned, so they deliberately miss most shots and just score the occasional kill shot so as not to be flagged.

One of these posts was from 8 days. They're using bots and laughing about it. This proves that WT does not have any kind of 'automatic detection system' and that's not what people are banned for. They use them and aren't detected. I don't use them and I am 'detected'. What's actually happening is that people are reported for suspicious shots, the replays are viewed and if the staff decide it looks like a bot, you're banned, without trial or appeal.

I've asked their legal team if I have rights, such as rights to the evidence against me. Basically, I'm trying to get them to show me the replay and the shot in question. I'd like to see it viewed publicly. I only vaguely remember my recent games, but the most 'suspicious' hits I can think of were firing at a destroyer behind a smoke screen. Occasionally you get hits when you do this since you have a rough idea of where the ship was before it laid the screen. Either that or a random shot hit something in the distance that I wasn't aiming for. Lifetime ban for that!

[Felipão]

Lafettie a écrit :

Nenne. a écrit :

The proving is not on your part. Its on their part..
They must prove that you cheated..

If you live in Europe then its an easy fix..

You are wrong.... did you even read the EULA that you signed when you made an Account ? They got the right to terminate it at any time when they see fit.You own nothing,not even the stuff you paid for.Everything is just borrowed.

It's only because most consumers are conformists, so by letting all this go, even, as he said, having invested money in the game, we give the impression to developers that they can do whatever they want and there will never be consequences.

There are consumer laws and even if all this only results in an account recovery, by carrying out your rights, it will send the message that we are not cattle.

The more we conform, the worse it gets. I'm not saying it, it's all the problems that occur in the gaming industry that prove these points.

They banished the boy, showed no evidence and still blamed him completely. This is called "reversing the burden of proof", when the person makes an argument or accuses you of something, and you are the one who has to prove something and not the one who pointed the finger at you.

[Lunovus]

Farflame a écrit :

The game is sadly full of aimbotters.

If that's true it explains why they have to work so hard to ban the cheaters.

Farflame a écrit :

One of these posts was from 8 days. They're using bots and laughing about it. This proves that WT does not have any kind of 'automatic detection system' and that's not what people are banned for. They use them and aren't detected. I don't use them and I am 'detected'. What's actually happening is that people are reported for suspicious shots, the replays are viewed and if the staff decide it looks like a bot, you're banned, without trial or appeal.

Is that how they got you?

Because you didn't use an aimbot, but hit with every single shot, never missing one?

Farflame a écrit :

I've asked their legal team if I have rights, such as rights to the evidence against me. Basically, I'm trying to get them to show me the replay and the shot in question.

That's not how it works.

See all them aimbotters laughing about them because they miss a shot now and then and thus aren't banned.

It's not a single shot that got you banned.

It probably was you landing every single shot!

[- DUHASSTMICH -]

You're responsible for your account. If your account was hacked and the hacker played with cheats, the blame is still with you. You have no rights. You have no litigation opportunity. You signed off on this when you had created your WT account.

It's likely there is a mix-up on the host computer between the hacker's computer and yours, but this is irrelevant as Gaijin is associating "cheating gameplay" to the account name.

Your best bet is to continue doing what you are doing with your public appeals. Maybe someone connected with Gaijin will help, but it's an above and beyond request.

If you have put a lot of money into Gaijin, it could help. If you have not, don't even bother.

[Farflame]

Zeca Pau Gordinho a écrit :

Lafettie a écrit :

You are wrong.... did you even read the EULA that you signed when you made an Account ? They got the right to terminate it at any time when they see fit.You own nothing,not even the stuff you paid for.Everything is just borrowed.

It's only because most consumers are conformists, so by letting all this go, even, as he said, having invested money in the game, we give the impression to developers that they can do whatever they want and there will never be consequences.

There are consumer laws and even if all this only results in an account recovery, by carrying out your rights, it will send the message that we are not cattle.

The more we conform, the worse it gets. I'm not saying it, it's all the problems that occur in the gaming industry that prove these points.

They banished the boy, showed no evidence and still blamed him completely. This is called "reversing the burden of proof", when the person makes an argument or accuses you of something, and you are the one who has to prove something and not the one who pointed the finger at you.

Exactly. I'm not interested in being re-instated or playing the game at this point. But I am determined to get an answer from them and some 'proof' of what I did. There's been no explanation and I'm told that my only avenue is customer support, who send 1 sentence 'We cannot help you any further with this issue' responses. Interestingly, they never close the ticket, which may be a legal requirement on their part. But 'support' will not resolve this issue, so I'm looking at other avenues.

[Farflame]

Lunovus a écrit :

Farflame a écrit :

The game is sadly full of aimbotters.

If that's true it explains why they have to work so hard to ban the cheaters.

Farflame a écrit :

One of these posts was from 8 days. They're using bots and laughing about it. This proves that WT does not have any kind of 'automatic detection system' and that's not what people are banned for. They use them and aren't detected. I don't use them and I am 'detected'. What's actually happening is that people are reported for suspicious shots, the replays are viewed and if the staff decide it looks like a bot, you're banned, without trial or appeal.

Is that how they got you?

Because you didn't use an aimbot, but hit with every single shot, never missing one?

Farflame a écrit :

I've asked their legal team if I have rights, such as rights to the evidence against me. Basically, I'm trying to get them to show me the replay and the shot in question.

That's not how it works.

See all them aimbotters laughing about them because they miss a shot now and then and thus aren't banned.

It's not a single shot that got you banned.

It probably was you landing every single shot!

I very much doubt that I hit every single shot, I'm really not very good at the game. And if I did hit every single shot, isn't that the point? Are you now supposed to miss occasionally to avoid getting banned? The only part of the game that I'm even vaguely 'good' at is arcade fighter aircraft, but I haven't played those lately. I did get a few bomb runs during my destroyer games and I landed a few bombs on destroyers... am I supposed to miss now to avoid being flagged?

If you read through reddits, there are lots of people trying to get other players banned. It's clear that that's how the bans happen. They post up video's of themselves being killed, then go on to claim that the opponent was cheating. Luckily, the responses are usually 'Sure, it's a good shot but it doesn't mean he's cheating'. But yes, if you land 3 or 4 good shots in a row, you're probably in trouble.

[Farflame]

- DUHASSTMICH - a écrit :

You're responsible for your account. If your account was hacked and the hacker played with cheats, the blame is still with you. You have no rights. You have no litigation opportunity. You signed off on this when you had created your WT account.

It's likely there is a mix-up on the host computer between the hacker's computer and yours, but this is irrelevant as Gaijin is associating "cheating gameplay" to the account name.

Your best bet is to continue doing what you are doing with your public appeals. Maybe someone connected with Gaijin will help, but it's an above and beyond request.

If you have put a lot of money into Gaijin, it could help. If you have not, don't even bother.

Pretty sure it wasn't the hacker that got me banned, because during account recovery they asked me for the dxdiag, presumably to differentiate between the hacker's computer and mine. So when I got banned, they pointed out the hardware being used during the incident and it was my hardware (unless the hacker has identical hardware which is unlikely).

I once paid for a 1 year sub, but that was on offer. I've had a couple of 30 day subs. Other than that, no, I don't pay much into the game. So yes, I agree, that's probably going to work against me.

[Lunovus]

Farflame a écrit :

And if I did hit every single shot, isn't that the point? Are you now supposed to miss occasionally to avoid getting banned?

Only if you use an aimbot.
If you play without one, missing a shot now and then comes naturally.

Farflame a écrit :

If you read through reddits, there are lots of people trying to get other players banned. It's clear that that's how the bans happen. They post up video's of themselves being killed, then go on to claim that the opponent was cheating. Luckily, the responses are usually 'Sure, it's a good shot but it doesn't mean he's cheating'. But yes, if you land 3 or 4 good shots in a row, you're probably in trouble.

I got more than 30k games under my belt, and I'm slowly (I'm an old fart) getting better.

If landing 3 or 4 shots in a row would got me into trouble, that 8 ground kills with survivor award (6 kills at our cap point defending it alone (the last 4 kills on it)) match that I had yesterday would surely got me banned already.

Hasn't happened (yet).

I was once accused of cheating by a player (needed more than 25k matches for that), and I felt fairly proud for that.

Now I'm only called "gay" by Russian players now and then.
But I guess I'll will get by with that praise.

[Farflame]

Lol, called 'gay' by a Russian probably means they're angry that you hit them.

Likewise, I was slowly getting better, but I wasn't very good. I'm VERY bad in tanks which is why I sometimes play them. I got a bit bored of fighters because I got 'quite' good (arcade only). I scored 15 kills in a Mig-3 once and I seem to recall getting 40'ish kills in a full game once, but that's probably my mind lying to me. But then I get quite bored of that. I played more ships and tanks because I wasn't good and I prefer the challenge.

To be honest, if I WAS to be flagged for being 'too good' (so good that it looks like a cheat), it would have to be my aircraft play, because I have got the occasional good kill, or even 2 or 3 in a row. Nothing I've ever done in a tank or ship could possibly be so good that someone would flag me for it. Leaving me only with the possibility that I either scored a crazy random hit (i.e I fired into the air and it hit a plane or something) or that I fired through smoke and hit someone repeatedly. Hitting a destroyer repeatedly in normal circumstances isn't difficult, they're big and slow and even I can hit them.

[Lunovus]

It wasn't you who got flagged.
It was your account.

When the people checked the replays of those GF RB matches, they probably weren't amused of what they saw.

So your account was banned.

This (probably) had nothing to do with your performance.

[- DUHASSTMICH -]

Farflame a écrit :

- DUHASSTMICH - a écrit :

You're responsible for your account. If your account was hacked and the hacker played with cheats, the blame is still with you. You have no rights. You have no litigation opportunity. You signed off on this when you had created your WT account.

It's likely there is a mix-up on the host computer between the hacker's computer and yours, but this is irrelevant as Gaijin is associating "cheating gameplay" to the account name.

Your best bet is to continue doing what you are doing with your public appeals. Maybe someone connected with Gaijin will help, but it's an above and beyond request.

If you have put a lot of money into Gaijin, it could help. If you have not, don't even bother.

Pretty sure it wasn't the hacker that got me banned, because during account recovery they asked me for the dxdiag, presumably to differentiate between the hacker's computer and mine. So when I got banned, they pointed out the hardware being used during the incident and it was my hardware (unless the hacker has identical hardware which is unlikely).

I once paid for a 1 year sub, but that was on offer. I've had a couple of 30 day subs. Other than that, no, I don't pay much into the game. So yes, I agree, that's probably going to work against me.

I'm sure it was the hacker that got you banned. It's no coincidence.

I think whomever reviewed the server logs confused your host computer with the hacker's computer.

Not sure how often Gaijin's client software sends a snapshot of the host computer's system to the server logs. Maybe it's triggered when the client suspects local changes have been applied, or it's with every initial "log in" connection made from the host computer to the server.

Maybe your many years of playing WT can offer you some leverage of truth.

I would try to connect with their CEO - Anton. GL!

https://www.reddit.com/user/AntonYudintsev/

[Kogoro]

At what point is hitting every shot considered cheating though, i have had matches where i fired 10 to 15 shots and hit all of them, i guess in that case it could be a little on the closer combat side rather than sniping across a map, but still medium range game play.

[Farflame]

To be honest, my initial thought was that it must be my hacker. Like you say, seems odd that after 8 years, I get hacked and banned both within the same month having previously suffered neither. I was under the impression that the hardware is logged with every replay but if you're saying that it only updates every few days then yes, it sure seems like a possibility.

Mind you, several people (including what I think was a Gaijin GM on the official forum) have made the point that being hacked is 'my fault'. I understand that, but if it then follows that whatever the hacker does is also 'my fault', then maybe they could use that against me (mind you, if they actually read the full story, I'm not sure why they'd WANT to ban me, assuming they believe that I'm innocent).

And yes, I don't think that you 'should' be banned for a bunch of amazing shots. I mean, you might actually be good! But browsing through the reddit posts, every video of 'Look at what this cheater did', didn't look like a cheater to me, it just looked like good play. But the poster is always 'I'm gonna get this guy banned'. So if they make a concerted effort to get you banned 'GAIJIN BAN THIS CHEATER', it wouldn't surprise me if it got through, especially if they're a Premium member and I'm not (haven't been for about 2 years).