Petition to War Thunder to add Poland

[Febreze the cheese 🧀]

So, I was sitting around being lazy on Winter Break, and watched a Potenital History video. And, I saw Polish tanks, and I really just thought 'We need Polish tanks in War Thunder,". And I though about it and, actually thought this is practical as they made serveral tanks, and are still making them. Please post your thoughts here, and always have peace in the comments.

[Stridswombat]

You keep saying that but repeating it doesn't make it true. I know what Poland has and hasn't made and there's simply not a whole lot there.

[Febreze the cheese 🧀]

Publicado originalmente por Stridswombat:

You keep saying that but repeating it doesn't make it true. I know what Poland has and hasn't made and there's simply not a whole lot there.

https://pikpikker.neocities.org/pl_wt.html

[Stridswombat]

Publicado originalmente por Febreze the cheese 🧀:

Publicado originalmente por Stridswombat:

You keep saying that but repeating it doesn't make it true. I know what Poland has and hasn't made and there's simply not a whole lot there.

https://pikpikker.neocities.org/pl_wt.html

Yes, that was linked earlier. I looked at it. It's a terrible suggestion. It's mostly copy-paste. It's filled with vehicles too low even for 1.0 at rank 1. It has paper vehicles in it. A lot of the vehicles not marked as copy/paste are effectively Soviet vehicles with slight modifications done to them due to being in the Warsaw Pact.

See my comments above. That suggestion basically mirrors the Chinese tree, though I'd say both because at least the Chinese tree doesn't have 2 of 4 aforementioned issues.

[Febreze the cheese 🧀]

mOsTlY cOpY aNd PaStE

if you dont give a crap dont talk here anymore

[Stridswombat]

Publicado originalmente por Febreze the cheese 🧀:

mOsTlY cOpY aNd PaStE

if you dont give a crap dont talk here anymore

Look at it and tell me it isn't. Wishful thinking isn't going to change it.

[Omega Sirius]

But these are just tanks, what about aviation tree? You ever think of that?

[Futuristic Hexagon]

The aviation tree would be pretty cool to see early on, they had a lot of aircraft that made it to at least the prototype stage with respectful armaments in the prewar years that can easily populate the first two tiers without it being too copy paste.

The problem begins that after the 2nd republic, most of the vehicles are usually derivatives of Soviet design on both air and ground from late Tier 2 up to Tier 5. They did make some changes to the designs though to justify it on the inside (moving around certain storage areas.) Then we have the PT-91 and variations of that at top tier (though that's largely based on the T-72.)

Naval may be interesting too. They had a pretty diverse fleet pre-war, though nothing too large for the inevitable day WT get to larger battleships.

[Resident NATO Freedom Enjoyer]

A DISCORD server, for a petition. Dear lord I'm dying over here lmao.

[Stridswombat]

I'm still working on it and I don't have time to continue right now, but here's a few of the vehicles of that so-called ground tree of yours and the problems with them. I might update this with the rest of the tree later if I get around to it.

Copy/paste or otherwise vehicles that would fit in existing trees:

R.35 (FR)
Vickers Mk. E Type B (UK)
Landsverk L-181 (SW)
Vickers M1937 (UK)
H.39 (FR)
Praga LTL (This is a Czech tank and from what I can tell Poland didn't use it)
AB-41 (IT)
S.35 (FR)
T-70 (USSR)
Su-76M (USSR)
Mk 2 Crusader (UK)
Sherman IB (M4a3 howitzer Sherman) (US/UK)
SU-85 (USSR)
Sherman III (M4a2 Sherman) (US/UK)
Mk 1 Cromwell (UK)
T-34-76 1943 (USSR)
Jagdpanzer 38t Hetzer (GE)
ISU-152 (USSR)
M4a2 76W (US)
T-34-85M1 (USSR)
T-34-85M2 (USSR)
Panther G (GE)
T-34-100 (USSR)
T-44 (USSR)


Vehicles practically too weak to work at 1.0 or above:

R.35: A slower, less armoured H.35, since removed from the game for being too weak.
75mm Dion Bouton wz.18/24: A unarmoured TD with what appears to be a gun that can't fire forward at all.
75mm PF621L: Same issue as the previous.
Vickers Mk. E Type B: Beyond being a British vehicle, it has a low-velocity 47mm howitzer. It would be close to useless in the game, akin to the Japanese howitzers but without the HEAT.
Wz.34-II: It's an armoured car with paper armour and a 37mm Puteaux gun for WW1, same as the now removed H.35. 34mm APCR penetration and no armour to speak of.
TKD: It's an open TD with a fixed low-velocity 47mm gun with barely any penetration. Take the Japanese 1.0 57mm howitzer tanks, remove the turret and the HEAT, make it open topped. This is essentially what you get.


Vehicles that were never completed (aka paper tanks):

4TP: The turret was never armed.
14TP: Never finished.
WB-10: Can't be confirmed if it were actually ever armed with a cannon.


Modified designs originally from other countries:

MT-LB-23M Krak: Soviet MT-LB
MT-LB Promet: Soviet MT-LB
T-34-85M1: Effectively just a Soviet T-34-85M for gameplay purposes. No in-game performance difference.
T-34-85M2: Same issue as the M1.
2S1T Gozdzik: Soviet 2S1 Gvozdika spg with some minor FCS changes, nothing that really impacts its in-game performance over the Soviet version.
BWP-1M Puma: Soviet BMP-1 with some minor FCS improvements for all intents and purposes. NV for the driver is basically the only in-game performance change over a regular BMP-1
T-55U: Upgraded Soviet T-54.
T-55AM Merida: Soviet T-55AM with some small armour, FCS and APS improvements.
T-54A ZET-1: Soviet T-54 upgraded with spaced armour.

Vehicles problematic for balance or gameplay purposes:

Sherman III: It's a US M4a2 at 3.7 instead of 4.0...
MT-LB-23M Krak: Cold-war APC as a 3.3 SPAAG. R3 2.0 anyone?
MT-LB Promet: Same as above.
Hibneryt: Same as above.
Hibneryt-P: Same as above.
Hibneryt-KG: Radar SPAAG at 7.7.

Anyway. Needless to say once you weed out most of the copy/paste, unfinished, unviable and performance-wise identical vehicles from it there's not a whole left in the tree to work with. Essentially yeah this is the Chinese tree all over again. Actually I think it's probably worse because there's less vehicles at the higher BR's that can be considered unique and not Soviet variants.

[Futuristic Hexagon]

Publicado originalmente por Stridswombat:

I'm still working on it and I don't have time to continue right now, but here's a few of the vehicles of that so-called ground tree of yours and the problems with them. I might update this with the rest of the tree later if I get around to it.

Copy/paste or otherwise vehicles that would fit in existing trees:

R.35 (FR)
Vickers Mk. E Type B (UK)
Landsverk L-181 (SW)
Vickers M1937 (UK)
H.39 (FR)
Praga LTL (This is a Czech tank and from what I can tell Poland didn't use it)
AB-41 (IT)
S.35 (FR)
T-70 (USSR)
Su-76M (USSR)
Mk 2 Crusader (UK)
Sherman IB (M4a3 howitzer Sherman) (US/UK)
SU-85 (USSR)
Sherman III (M4a2 Sherman) (US/UK)
Mk 1 Cromwell (UK)
T-34-76 1943 (USSR)
Jagdpanzer 38t Hetzer (GE)
ISU-152 (USSR)
M4a2 76W (US)
T-34-85M1 (USSR)
T-34-85M2 (USSR)
Panther G (GE)
T-34-100 (USSR)
T-44 (USSR)


Vehicles practically too weak to work at 1.0 or above:

R.35: A slower, less armoured H.35, since removed from the game for being too weak.
75mm Dion Bouton wz.18/24: A unarmoured TD with what appears to be a gun that can't fire forward at all.
75mm PF621L: Same issue as the previous.
Vickers Mk. E Type B: Beyond being a British vehicle, it has a low-velocity 47mm howitzer. It would be close to useless in the game, akin to the Japanese howitzers but without the HEAT.
Wz.34-II: It's an armoured car with paper armour and a 37mm Puteaux gun for WW1, same as the now removed H.35. 34mm APCR penetration and no armour to speak of.
TKD: It's an open TD with a fixed low-velocity 47mm gun with barely any penetration. Take the Japanese 1.0 57mm howitzer tanks, remove the turret and the HEAT, make it open topped. This is essentially what you get.


Vehicles that were never completed (aka paper tanks):

4TP: The turret was never armed.
14TP: Never finished.
WB-10: Can't be confirmed if it were actually ever armed with a cannon.


Modified designs originally from other countries:

MT-LB-23M Krak: Soviet MT-LB
MT-LB Promet: Soviet MT-LB
T-34-85M1: Effectively just a Soviet T-34-85M for gameplay purposes. No in-game performance difference.
T-34-85M2: Same issue as the M1.
2S1T Gozdzik: Soviet 2S1 Gvozdika spg with some minor FCS changes, nothing that really impacts its in-game performance over the Soviet version.
BWP-1M Puma: Soviet BMP-1 with some minor FCS improvements for all intents and purposes. NV for the driver is basically the only in-game performance change over a regular BMP-1
T-55U: Upgraded Soviet T-54.
T-55AM Merida: Soviet T-55AM with some small armour, FCS and APS improvements.
T-54A ZET-1: Soviet T-54 upgraded with spaced armour.

Vehicles problematic for balance or gameplay purposes:

Sherman III: It's a US M4a2 at 3.7 instead of 4.0...
MT-LB-23M Krak: Cold-war APC as a 3.3 SPAAG. R3 2.0 anyone?
MT-LB Promet: Same as above.
Hibneryt: Same as above.
Hibneryt-P: Same as above.
Hibneryt-KG: Radar SPAAG at 7.7.

Anyway. Needless to say once you weed out most of the copy/paste, unfinished, unviable and performance-wise identical vehicles from it there's not a whole left in the tree to work with. Essentially yeah this is the Chinese tree all over again. Actually I think it's probably worse because there's less vehicles at the higher BR's that can be considered unique and not Soviet variants.

I would disagree on the high tier part. Again we have multiple PT-91 variants, the problem is that almost all of it is a PT-91 variant.

But the tank tree would definetly be the Chinese tree situation for sure.

Otoh, I still remain optimistic on the air tree being promising early on simply due to what was built and flown as a prototype at least. The hard part will be sourcing documents on it as very little survives to this day due to it being destroyed to prevent them from being found by the Germans or Russians after the September campaign. A lot of the tanks (10TP, 14TP) also shared a similar fate.

Possibly T5 would be a little promising as well if you count all the ideas tested for the Lim-6. Maybe the Iskra as an early tier 5 at between 6.3 to 7.0.

[Stridswombat]

Publicado originalmente por Leonov:

Otoh, I still remain optimistic on the air tree being promising early on simply due to what was built and flown as a prototype at least.

While Poland certainly had its fair share of inter-war era bombers and fighters built, there isn't really a whole lot that goes beyond rank 1. As for post-war I don't think Poland made any military non-trainer jets did they? Really I could only find 1 and it's still kind of a pseudo-trainer. So it would have to be near exclusively Soviet jets at that point. Really the air tree doesn't have anything going for it outside rank 1 and maybe early rank 2. They might have some choppers, but that doesn't really qualify for the air tree per se.

Overall It's in a worse state than the ground tree by a sizable margin. This is all I could find for Polish jets: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PZL_TS-16_Grot

EDIT: Should probably say that this is an unbuilt mockup, so it would have to join the line of other, unbuilt near fictional jets in the game like the R2Y2. It's still the very best I could find for any actually Polish post-war jets or planes. So basically there isn't any. It stops at rank 2 completely and early rank 2 at that.

[Rei [Pwner]]

What are you doing...?

[Stridswombat]

Spamming to get it to the front page. Should maybe report that.

[Cquarto91 Warband Mod Archiver]

This thread is full of WIN lol. Korea Pl0x

[Silent]

Publicado originalmente por Stridswombat:

I'm still working on it and I don't have time to continue right now, but here's a few of the vehicles of that so-called ground tree of yours and the problems with them. I might update this with the rest of the tree later if I get around to it.

Copy/paste or otherwise vehicles that would fit in existing trees:

R.35 (FR)
Vickers Mk. E Type B (UK)
Landsverk L-181 (SW)
Vickers M1937 (UK)
H.39 (FR)
Praga LTL (This is a Czech tank and from what I can tell Poland didn't use it)
AB-41 (IT)
S.35 (FR)
T-70 (USSR)
Su-76M (USSR)
Mk 2 Crusader (UK)
Sherman IB (M4a3 howitzer Sherman) (US/UK)
SU-85 (USSR)
Sherman III (M4a2 Sherman) (US/UK)
Mk 1 Cromwell (UK)
T-34-76 1943 (USSR)
Jagdpanzer 38t Hetzer (GE)
ISU-152 (USSR)
M4a2 76W (US)
T-34-85M1 (USSR)
T-34-85M2 (USSR)
Panther G (GE)
T-34-100 (USSR)
T-44 (USSR)


Vehicles practically too weak to work at 1.0 or above:

R.35: A slower, less armoured H.35, since removed from the game for being too weak.
75mm Dion Bouton wz.18/24: A unarmoured TD with what appears to be a gun that can't fire forward at all.
75mm PF621L: Same issue as the previous.
Vickers Mk. E Type B: Beyond being a British vehicle, it has a low-velocity 47mm howitzer. It would be close to useless in the game, akin to the Japanese howitzers but without the HEAT.
Wz.34-II: It's an armoured car with paper armour and a 37mm Puteaux gun for WW1, same as the now removed H.35. 34mm APCR penetration and no armour to speak of.
TKD: It's an open TD with a fixed low-velocity 47mm gun with barely any penetration. Take the Japanese 1.0 57mm howitzer tanks, remove the turret and the HEAT, make it open topped. This is essentially what you get.


Vehicles that were never completed (aka paper tanks):

4TP: The turret was never armed.
14TP: Never finished.
WB-10: Can't be confirmed if it were actually ever armed with a cannon.


Modified designs originally from other countries:

MT-LB-23M Krak: Soviet MT-LB
MT-LB Promet: Soviet MT-LB
T-34-85M1: Effectively just a Soviet T-34-85M for gameplay purposes. No in-game performance difference.
T-34-85M2: Same issue as the M1.
2S1T Gozdzik: Soviet 2S1 Gvozdika spg with some minor FCS changes, nothing that really impacts its in-game performance over the Soviet version.
BWP-1M Puma: Soviet BMP-1 with some minor FCS improvements for all intents and purposes. NV for the driver is basically the only in-game performance change over a regular BMP-1
T-55U: Upgraded Soviet T-54.
T-55AM Merida: Soviet T-55AM with some small armour, FCS and APS improvements.
T-54A ZET-1: Soviet T-54 upgraded with spaced armour.

Vehicles problematic for balance or gameplay purposes:

Sherman III: It's a US M4a2 at 3.7 instead of 4.0...
MT-LB-23M Krak: Cold-war APC as a 3.3 SPAAG. R3 2.0 anyone?
MT-LB Promet: Same as above.
Hibneryt: Same as above.
Hibneryt-P: Same as above.
Hibneryt-KG: Radar SPAAG at 7.7.

Anyway. Needless to say once you weed out most of the copy/paste, unfinished, unviable and performance-wise identical vehicles from it there's not a whole left in the tree to work with. Essentially yeah this is the Chinese tree all over again. Actually I think it's probably worse because there's less vehicles at the higher BR's that can be considered unique and not Soviet variants.

You're missing the 7TP and 9TP, which would probably be the only vehicles I would want from the Polish tree.

Bonus points if Gaijin added the 10TP or 14TP, but they were prototypes and the chances that Gaijin would at them are slim to none.