Matchmaker making War Thunder almost unplayable

[wwiiogre]

Gaijin claims alot about its matchmaker. But for over 300 games I have been reading the battle logs.

I have never been in top 4 BR ratings in any of those battles. I have always been in bottom 4 BR of everyone of those battles. I do not claim this lightly.

If I bring all 3.3 or less tanks I face 4.0 BR or above with one or two 3.7. Every single game. I am lowest BR in matches.

So maybe its that there are no 3.3 players. Sorry, wrong. I run a 2.3 list right after this match and face only 3.3. Meaning I am always up BR'd for every single match.

If I play 4.3 I am up tiered to 5.3.

I verify every match I play by checking the combat logs. When I finish a match. Otherwise I quit at initial spawn when I see the players around me have overwhelmingly higher BR's.

Now I have no choice but to just return to hanger at beginning of match after I look around at my teammates. If I am lowest BR I just stop playing that broken match. I have no other choice.

Or I start playing, then see enemy and notice they are all higher BR than even my already high BR teammates. Nothing like getting killed by Soviet 4.3 in your Italian Tin Coffins at 3.3 or lower BR. Or like last night have Italian 3.3 and face nothing but Soviet KV 1S. Yeah The enemy started with almost every player in a KV at 4.3 BR against our team that had 3.3-3.7. I had a single 3.3 the rest 3.0 or less. Facing entire enemy team of 4.3.

Matchmaker is fully broken. It is not a joke anymore. I have been watching my games now for hundreds of hours. I have around 300+ games played recently with less than 10 games that were even or close when the ended. None of the games have been balanced at all. Most are won by overwhelming BR superiority that end quickly and are ROFL STOMP games.

Why is Matchmaker so BROKEN.

Probably because Gaijin uses an ELO system as its main program. In other words it wants equality of outcome. If you have to many wins it will put you on a team and a match where you will lose. That is called COMMUNISM and it means everybody gets a TROPHY for participation. I see this match after match, where one side has all the lower BR and the other has the higher BR and more experienced players.

Worse if you never get to be the higher BR in a game, it is just plain silly to always be facing higher BR. I am not a META player. I play for fun. I want to try all the BR levels and tanks of every country. I do not mind playing lower tier BR tanks. All my lists are set at .3 meaning 1.3 list, 2.3 list, 3.3 list, 4.3 list, 5.3 list and all vehicles are within .5 of the highest vehicle.

I play RB Tanks, and the matches are so out of whack that I have no other choice but to continually quit matches at the starting spawn point when I can visibly see that the matchmaker has up tiered me. There is no point playing battles where your tanks are so out classed it is silly.

Matchmaker needs to have only .5 up tier allowed. 1+ BR up tier is to much. It is sometimes night and day difference. 3.3 Italian vs 4.3 Soviet is a good example. Just 1 BR but night and day. 30mm armor on Italians, 100mm armor on Soviets. Pop guns for Italians, 85mm for Soviets. T34 and KV vs Italian M14 or Semovente, yeah that match is always broken. Always.

Yet, time and again I launch the game with my 3.3 Italians and always end up in a game that is 4.3 and heavy with KV's and SU 85's. Is that supposed to be fun for me? Ever?

Every shell from my poor little Italian pop guns bouncing against Stalinium armor. Every shell from their Soviet Super Canons tearing my tissue paper Italian screen door armor to shreds.

Gaijin it is time you redid matchmaker and fixed it. Please get rid of your Social Justice ELO system, those only work in 1v1 systems like Chess. Otherwise they are just participation ribbons for a social experiment to attempt to balance out win/loss by forcing losses on anyone who shows any skill or talent by continually placing good players in games where they are outmatched almost always. I am proof of this.

Chris

[Edicimoh]

Yeah i agree. While i understand the whole upteir system is to get into a game faster the chances are your going to not have fun due to facing superior tanks. 6.3 for alot of nations is painful due to always facing 7.3 due to it being a black hole tier. ELO is a dumb idea though it is a good way to keep it so players are not constantly stopping but it definitely has its issues. Although what i do recommend is that you post this on the WT fourm and a few fleshed out ideas to fix the issue. Replacing a entire matchmaking system is hard especially with a small team like Gajins. They do listen

[wwiiogre]

I have 2200 hours, this system has been in place since near the beginning. I access War Thunder thru steam. They have Devs that monitor this discussion board.

I have spent tons of money on this game. I am one of the gold fans, they make gold from me. They are making the game so unenjoyable at this moment because of the matchmaker problems that it is frustrating.

This morning I had one good game. Meaning a good even game against an evenly matched opponent. I was still low BR in the match, but the uptiered BR's were only .5 instead of 1 full BR higher. That is mostly ok.

The rest of the matches I either quit at initial spawn or played a little bit then saw how bad matchmaker was. My team was within .5 of each other BR but opponents all had .7 to 1 BR above our team. I mean seriously I am in 3.3 Italians and see 4 KV 1S coming towards me across battlefield. With 3 more KV's farther across the field. It is just silly.

They need to stop the elo matchmaker completely. Games should be .5 BR apart, end of story. If you want a challenge they could have a toggle to allow 1 BR challenge. Let the community choose. Wait a few more seconds for a more even battle or get a fast battle that is almost always uneven.

I know what I would choose. I currently wait awhile sometimes just for them to screw me over every time anyway.

Like I said, I will immediately try a different tier of BR 1.3, 2.3, 3.3, 4.3, 5.3 to see if it is a lack of opponents and what do I find, no lack of opponents for that Tier as I am immediately lifted to next tier level. It is sad and disheartening that this is the normal matchmaker.

Chris

[burg4401]

the spg for italy after br 3 are crap till you get to the m36b1.

no idea why, the heat shell should kill what ever you fire it at and it does as well as any heat shell,
but for me they were total rubbish vehicles after the br 3 one, which was great.

As for the rest, they are also rubbish with only the american stuff being any good till you get to higher italian stuff, which I like personally.

In any tech tree there are vehicles that just don't work for you, the italian spg are that vehicle.
you get one good game followed by 5 bad.

Up to you if you want to feel the pain, I didn't, I used the m24 to get the sherman, then those 2 to get to the good stuff.

why waste your time playing a vehicle that is rubbish in yours and my hands.

as for the mm, games can only be made up from players that are currently queuing, +/-1 of your highest vehicle.
If you are bottom br in a game, you have to change the way you play, we all do.

On the few times I've seen a big br change, they move the vehicles at the same time or soon after.
What ever you are having trouble with you will still have to fight,
it will just be called a different br so that is a meaningless ask.
you won't get the result you think you will.

It might just be me but I could not use the italian spg after br 3, so I binned them.
we all have vehicles that we are bad in, don't play them.

the br 3 one and lower are great spg.

my funny one is the fact i'm crap in the is6, turns out everyone else isn't.....not my play style.

[wwiiogre]

burg,

I have 2200 hours, I know how to get the best out of each and every vehicle. I also know each and every vehicles weakness and how to kill them. Even with the new volumetric broken change.

That is not the point. The point is matchmaker is intentionally skewing games to get projected outcomes. That is what an ELO system does. It tries to make your average win/loss equal 0. So it will intentionally place you in a position where one side is near guaranteed to win over another. There is no randomness to this type of a system.

I was part of a testing team for MWO that tested this exact system and its stated goal when it was implemented was to give pubs a better chance to have a near even win/loss record so as not to drive them away.

There are many ways to spare the noob, first you can have matchmaker separate the player pool by experience in hours. Not allowing most noob players to play against vets until they have more hours. Or give them a toggle to ignore this feature.

They could lower the BR differential as this is truly to much of a difference. The argument of waiting to long for a match is BS, I would rather wait 10 minutes for one good match than to have to wait, start a match and see its a crap matchmaker match, leave that match, then start another, etc, which adds up more than 10 minutes.

Sorry waiting for an even and balanced match would always be worth it. Instead of having to play crap matches where one side is lopsidedly winning against another because of obvious BR differences the matchmaker setup on purpose.

I will keep broadcasting during matches when I have to exit the game because of the broken matchmaker. I will no longer play broken matches. It makes my experience frustrating to say the least. But I like the game enough to come here and complain with my legitimate problems.

It is my own opinion, but I find so many others also suffering this same issue.

Chris

[Mdina FU_KCE]

i can agree they need to fix this br uptier.
I did 19 battles today in german 6.3 tanks and all were uptier against ussr tanks and we only won 3 times.

[burg4401]

each to their own, I just wouldn't tell the team why you are leaving,
not sure but maybe you can get reported for it.

stick to the forums.

I know I've had some strange auto warnings when all i can think of is me saying is
I'm not playing this crap map, bye.

No idea what I could have been reported for, passive? other?

I hate some maps
and I will return to hangar rather than play them.

good luck+have fun.

[wwiiogre]

Reported for quitting a game because it is unbalanced. And telling your team the reason you are quitting is just good manners.

Chris

[Edicimoh]

Again i see you saying about the problem yet posing no solutions. The system is broken, yes. But saying something is broken then not giving a solution gets nowhere. Completely removing ELO match making seems like a good idea but could be bad in practice. What i have noticed if your playing a full squad you will always get upteired which is fair. Due to most people playing solo so there is a side to every coin.

[wwiiogre]

I did pose solutions. I just needed to I guess place them in a list and state hey here is a suggestion. Otherwise it doesn't count? Or I need to place this on official forums or it doesn't count. If a business has a forum whether official or not, they need to monitor that forum and to say they rate this forum less than another means they rate the customers here less important than others. That is a really bad thing to do, and especially to say as a retail seller. Nothing like alienating a bunch of your player base by saying we don't listen to you even tho you are using an official War Thunder Forum monitored by Gaijin. (people they appoint to monitor and admin, whether paid or not represent Gaijin on this Forum)

1. No ELO based on win/loss making games stomps in one direction or another.

2. BR difference set at .5 not 1

3. Have matchmaker when possible sort for number of hours played. Placing lower hour players with each other.

4. Make 3 have a toggle so more experienced new players to this game can skip the new player games.

5. Toggle the switch so that you can choose to only play with BR of your level or lower.

None of these are hard to do. Yeah it takes programming and testing. But I would try these on experimental.

All of these suggestions would immediately make matchmaker better in my OPINION.

As noted some players ditch games not because of bad matchmaking but because of map choice. I would say let each player in the settings or with a drop down block certain maps. I have maps I hate more than others based on the tanks I bring. But other than that don't really care except where you are above 4.3 and they keep putting you on tiny maps with no sight lines, what is the point of having a sniper rifle and put in the 30m range?

Chris

[Ponto]

I will concede that there are battles where you can smell a loss or victory long before they are over. One side simply overwhelms the other and it does not necessarily mean one side has the advantage in battle rankings. Player experience and skill does matter in battle and you can find yourself on teams with very little of either even if your BRs are superior. I'm guessing it is all part of the balancing dynamic. I simply strive to maximize my efforts in each battle no matter what the variables.... some are super easy to excel in, others you have no hope no matter what. There are a handful of battles that go down the wire and those are the most rewarding.

[wwiiogre]

But should the goal of matchmaker be to have more than just a handful of battles seem even? I mean that is the actual point of having a matchmaker.

I am just tired of always being the lowest BR. I mean always. I have not been at the top of BR tier in any match in so many games it is silly. Hundreds of games, not highest BR. That is not chance, that is intentional programming. It is broken. Unless of course that is the goal. Because that is ELO not matchmaking. One has a goal to force win/loss balance the other has a goal to make matches even so that the best player wins, not the highest BR or the team with highest BR and most experienced players.

I played 5000+ hours of MWO, I saw them start the use of ELO and enforcement of win/loss ratios as the main part of matchmaking. It turned normal close battles into 90% roflstomp wins for one side. All the tech was the same, so if you chose lesser tech that was your fault, but mainly it came down to skill.

Currently that is not how matchmaker works. It is not matching equal vehicles nor is it matching equal player experience. It is intentionally mismatching BR. It is intentionally mismatching player experience. That is called ELO or its broken, either way it makes very few equal matches.

All matches I played this morning were not equal. I left the game at spawn in most of the matches I launched as just looking at the initial spawn of my team I could see I was uptiered +1BR so not worth playing. Several matches I quit once I saw the enemy tanks and saw they were all or mostly 1 + BR than my highest. Note my highest. Because they were 1.5 over my lowest. I started with 3.3 high and 2.7 low. So to face nothing but 4 and 4.3 is broken. Way broken.

Not just 1 match but match after, match, after match. Not a single match today was I in the highest BR of a match. Not one. I was always lowest tier. That means matchmaker is not random and its broken on purpose.

So I will keep attempting to play. I will keep quitting matches when I see matchmaker failed. I will keep posting here because there is an issue with matchmaker.

Saying I will get reported for quitting matches that are broken and saying why I am quitting that match, that is some serious problem if it happens.

Chris

[Ponto]

Judging battles by a BR average can be misleading. Incompetence in play can be seen throughout levels of players no matter the BR that they represent in battle. My experience has been varied with respect to the BR ranges witnessed from one battle to the next and I find it hard to believe someone is "always" fighting battles disadvantaged and up tiered consistently.

[wwiiogre]

Haven't flown in a bit, took 2.3 soviet air and was facing 3.7; That is even worse than tanks. almost + 1.5 BR I was wrong, air matchmaker is more broken than tanks. But they are all broken.

Chris

[LeonHard]

Just to add to the list of horrors, I run a USSR list with a T-34 (1942), a T-34 (1940) and a KV-1(L-11), 3.3 to 3.7, fully upgraded and I routinely have to deal with German tanks that are more maneuverable, better armored and that can penetrate my front armor while I can't do the same with them. The situation is so bad that I always end up in the last few ranking positions and I'm actually bleeding money. I'm down to my last 36K SL.

It's so frustrating I will likely stop playing soon enough. This doesn't feel like playing a game, it feels like playing the punching bag part for someone else's amusement.

This game is really not balanced

[wwiiogre]

Yeah the initial grind is horrible. Play lower level tanks all at same BR or within .3 and just grind SL.

I have a million in the bank so not a worry for me, but in certain situations grinding certain vehicles just drains your bank over and over when you are facing much tougher opponents.

Chris