Someone give me a good reason why Semovente 75/46 M43 is 4.7, when it is literally a worse Stug III G/H.

[Graephen]

Title.

[OcGuy]

dude its armor is thicker than STUGs

[Shyue Chou]

The armour on my Semoventes seem to easily get penetrated whereas those of my STUG IIIHs fare much better. I don't know why. I love these casemate vehicles.

[Tom]

Escrito originalmente por Shyue Chou:

The armour on my Semoventes seem to easily get penetrated whereas those of my STUG IIIHs fare much better. I don't know why. I love these casemate vehicles.

It's a larger area of flat Armor, so easier to aim for pretty much

[Shyue Chou]

Escrito originalmente por Tom:

Escrito originalmente por Shyue Chou:

The armour on my Semoventes seem to easily get penetrated whereas those of my STUG IIIHs fare much better. I don't know why. I love these casemate vehicles.

It's a larger area of flat Armor, so easier to aim for pretty much

Good point, that explains a fair bit.

[Illusionyary]

Escrito originalmente por Mirage:

Minor nations are always overtiered.

Generally this. They keep going up too because they're so overtiered that they demand better players, so anyone who's "bad" just stops playing them, so the BR never goes down. Look at pretty much anything Japanese or Italian, the Chi-To's are somehow 4.7 whilst Germany has much better Panzer IVs at 4.0 and below.

[Aegis270]

It makes no sense. It's 100mm flat, which seems impressive, except that there are precious few guns, even when it's totally top tier, that can't deal with that, especially at range. It's basically the Russian L-11 cannons, so the KV-1 L11 and the T-34 1940 if someone uptiers it. The American 75mm can sometimes struggle if you angle between shots, but not substantially, and not at close/mid range.

Meanwhile, at 4.0, you have the StuG III G, which has 80mm + 20mm of tracks over almost the entire front of the thing, making it basically as well protected. It's got the same gun, but is also faster, has one extra crew member and is two entire BR jumps below the Semovente.

Italy also gets a StuG III G, but I guess to really make it obvious how much Gaijin hates minor nations, it doesn't get that really crucial add on armor package, yet it's at the exact same BR as the German one.

[Shyue Chou]

I actually do think that the Semovente 75/46 M43 should be 4.0.

[Shyue Chou]

Escrito originalmente por FireFromBehind:

100mm front plate and Italian 90mm, everything you need.

It mounts a 75mm.

[Космонавт]

-4 dgrs more gun depression, +-8 dgrs more horizontal traverse, +10 mm more pen at 10m. Idk, seems alright for 0.3 BR more

[Graephen]

Escrito originalmente por OcGuy:

dude its armor is thicker than STUGs

Thick doesen't mean more effective. A Tiger has thicker armor than a T-34, but it's driver hatch won't absorb a 155mm HE shell.

Escrito originalmente por Illusionyary:

Escrito originalmente por Mirage:

Minor nations are always overtiered.

Generally this. They keep going up too because they're so overtiered that they demand better players, so anyone who's "bad" just stops playing them, so the BR never goes down. Look at pretty much anything Japanese or Italian, the Chi-To's are somehow 4.7 whilst Germany has much better Panzer IVs at 4.0 and below.

I have complained about this EXACT problem at least twice on the forums and got told-off. People really think a Chi-To is better than a Panzer IV, while it's nearly twice the size, half ther armor and slower with similar gun. Oof. When are we going to get reasonably BR'd vehicles for minor nations?

Escrito originalmente por Aegis270:

It makes no sense. It's 100mm flat, which seems impressive, except that there are precious few guns, even when it's totally top tier, that can't deal with that, especially at range. It's basically the Russian L-11 cannons, so the KV-1 L11 and the T-34 1940 if someone uptiers it. The American 75mm can sometimes struggle if you angle between shots, but not substantially, and not at close/mid range.

Meanwhile, at 4.0, you have the StuG III G, which has 80mm + 20mm of tracks over almost the entire front of the thing, making it basically as well protected. It's got the same gun, but is also faster, has one extra crew member and is two entire BR jumps below the Semovente.

Italy also gets a StuG III G, but I guess to really make it obvious how much Gaijin hates minor nations, it doesn't get that really crucial add on armor package, yet it's at the exact same BR as the German one.

I mean, I like the variance, though. I am pro minor nations having the same tank, but equipped with minor differences, unless it gives them an unfair advantage/disadvantage.

The Semovente should be 3.7, while the Stug should stay at 4.0 without the sideskirts, but with a pintlemount MG42. That would be nice.

Escrito originalmente por Космонавт:

-4 dgrs more gun depression, +-8 dgrs more horizontal traverse, +10 mm more pen at 10m. Idk, seems alright for 0.3 BR more

In what universe does a slight increase in gun depression warrant a 0.7 increase in BR?
This is T14 logic we're reaching here. Oh "Have fun playing on 5.3-5.7 constantly, while your front can be penetrated by an L-11!"

Nuts.

[Космонавт]

Escrito originalmente por Graephen:

Escrito originalmente por Космонавт:

-4 dgrs more gun depression, +-8 dgrs more horizontal traverse, +10 mm more pen at 10m. Idk, seems alright for 0.3 BR more

In what universe does a slight increase in gun depression warrant a 0.7 increase in BR?
This is T14 logic we're reaching here. Oh "Have fun playing on 5.3-5.7 constantly, while your front can be penetrated by an L-11!"

Nuts.

First off, did you ignore the rest of my comment on purpose?
Second, 4 degrees of depression is not exactly a slight difference, it is significant.
Thirdly, BR difference is only 0.3 in the actually good game mode, i.e. in arcade.
Fourth, your entire t14 argument is beyond terrible. Every single forum crybaby plays exclusively in uptiers, at least that's what they would have everyone to believe, but in reality that is not the case, and I don't even want to bother with agressively stupid "front can be penetrated by an L-11" part, since by that logic I guess tiger 1 should be lower than 5.0 as well, since you can pen it from the front with F34 found on KVs and T-34s at 4.0 and 3.7 as opposed to L11s on 3.7 and 3.3 respectively.

[Graephen]

Escrito originalmente por Космонавт:

Escrito originalmente por Graephen:

In what universe does a slight increase in gun depression warrant a 0.7 increase in BR?
This is T14 logic we're reaching here. Oh "Have fun playing on 5.3-5.7 constantly, while your front can be penetrated by an L-11!"

Nuts.

First off, did you ignore the rest of my comment on purpose?

I'd ignored nothing, dafuq?

Escrito originalmente por Космонавт:

Escrito originalmente por Graephen:

In what universe does a slight increase in gun depression warrant a 0.7 increase in BR?
This is T14 logic we're reaching here. Oh "Have fun playing on 5.3-5.7 constantly, while your front can be penetrated by an L-11!"

Nuts.

Second, 4 degrees of depression is not exactly a slight difference, it is significant.

Not enough to warrant a BR difference, when there are other cons it has over Stug.
M18 has better depression, than the EBR, yet it sits on the same BR. Kapish? And we're comparing two tanks, that should both be 6.0, not 5.7. Semovente is crap at 4.3 even.

Escrito originalmente por Космонавт:

Escrito originalmente por Graephen:

In what universe does a slight increase in gun depression warrant a 0.7 increase in BR?
This is T14 logic we're reaching here. Oh "Have fun playing on 5.3-5.7 constantly, while your front can be penetrated by an L-11!"

Nuts.

Fthe actually good game mode, i.e. in arcade.

BAHAHAHAHAH WHAAAT?! Arcade is better to RB? Get out of here and go play WoT if you want arcade. War Thunder is best on Realistic and maybe Simulator battles.

Escrito originalmente por Космонавт:

Escrito originalmente por Graephen:

In what universe does a slight increase in gun depression warrant a 0.7 increase in BR?
This is T14 logic we're reaching here. Oh "Have fun playing on 5.3-5.7 constantly, while your front can be penetrated by an L-11!"

Nuts.

Fourth, your entire t14 argument is beyond terrible. Every single forum crybaby plays exclusively in uptiers, at least that's what they would have everyone to believe, but in reality that is not the case, and I don't even want to bother with agressively stupid "front can be penetrated by an L-11" part, since by that logic I guess tiger 1 should be lower than 5.0 as well, since you can pen it from the front with F34 found on KVs and T-34s at 4.0 and 3.7 as opposed to L11s on 3.7 and 3.3 respectively.

Go to the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ protection analysis and SEE FOR YOURSELF. I cannot believe someone is this thick. A T-34 (1941) at 3.3 can pen an angled T14 in the turret, the corner and the machinegun port at 500m. FIVE, HUNDRED, METERS. AT 3.3. AGAINST A SHELL, THAT HAS 79mm OF PENETRATION AT 500m sloped at 30° JESUS DAMN CHRIST.

It constantly meets Panthers with 132mm of pen at 500m, slope 30°.
I see you own the T14 enough to talk about it, right? No you don't.

[Космонавт]

Haha, I can already see you can barely even use the forum. Now, to the actual post

Escrito originalmente por Graephen:

I'd ignored nothing, dafuq?

You mentioned only gun depression, my comment also mentioned horizontal traverse and better penetration

Escrito originalmente por Graephen:

Not enough to warrant a BR difference, when there are other cons it has over Stug.
M18 has better depression, than the EBR, yet it sits on the same BR. Kapish? And we're comparing two tanks, that should both be 6.0, not 5.7. Semovente is crap at 4.3 even.

M18 is not part of this argument, I don't care how it compares to E.B.R. and there is no reason it should be a part of this discussion, which was, if you managed to forget, about italian SPGs, not American and French light tanks

Escrito originalmente por Graephen:

BAHAHAHAHAH WHAAAT?! Arcade is better to RB? Get out of here and go play WoT if you want arcade. War Thunder is best on Realistic and maybe Simulator battles.

What I said is - there difference is 0.7, not 0.3 only in ♥♥♥♥♥♥ mode. You can still play in ♥♥♥♥♥♥ mode, that's your call. I simply made sure you are aware just how ♥♥♥♥♥♥ it is - in this case, the balance is worse.

Escrito originalmente por Graephen:

Go to the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ protection analysis and SEE FOR YOURSELF. I cannot believe someone is this thick. A T-34 (1941) at 3.3 can pen an angled T14 in the turret, the corner and the machinegun port at 500m. FIVE, HUNDRED, METERS. AT 3.3. AGAINST A SHELL, THAT HAS 79mm OF PENETRATION AT 500m sloped at 30° JESUS DAMN CHRIST.
It constantly meets Panthers with 132mm of pen at 500m, slope 30°.

By this point you apparently ran out of memory again and ignored the rest of my comment, that's alright, I'll write it again, in simpler words.
I didn't say that T14 can't be penetrated by L11. I said it is not enough to place it below 4.7. By this same logic Tiger H1, which can be penetrated frontally by F34 or its equivalents, that could be found on +0.3BR tanks compared to L11, should be below 5.0. Do you realise just how stupid this logic is?
And lastly, this hilarious part.

Escrito originalmente por Graephen:

I see you own the T14 enough to talk about it, right? No you don't.

That sound like a particularly acute case of buyer's remorse, lol.

[Graephen]

I can't believe how stupid that last response is. This guy is unable to mount a counter-argument, so he just straight-up dismisses half of mine and says i'm ignoring him, while I reply to every detail of his comment. Just stupid beyond stupid.

I got the T14 for free, fyi

[Космонавт]

Alright, I'm not paid to do this.
Btw, to illustrate my Tiger H1 point
https://imgur.com/AHKGUG4
https://imgur.com/rOPuR1P