2A4 is a downgrade from the 2K.

[pompous]

Its slower, its extra armor means nothing since its all flat, the 2K has extreme angles and that means a lot of things bounce, the mantlet is far thinner then it was IRL, the DM23 is bugged and is actaully worse then the DM13, it doesnt have its correct DM33 round while the Type 90 gets its JM33, the 2A4 is just an all round average, to sub par tank.

https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/415928-problems-with-the-leopard-2a4-upon-unlocking/

https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/415639-dm23-worse-ingame-than-dm13-proof-provided/

The 2A4 clearly needs some work and i doubt Gaijin will do anything, they left the Chally in its current state and didnt care, so they will most likely do the same with the 2A4.

[pompous]

Ki'agh a écrit :

Sir Det Mist a écrit :

The 2A4 doesnt have almost invincible turret cheeks, not even close, its no different to the Abrams, they are ok on an angle but once you get to a 30 degree angle to the front of the tank everything will go through, it just seems kinda stupid that they cant even get ammo right after a dev server being up for a decent amount of time, do they test anything they release.

They are tough cheeks, they are in fact stronger than the Abrams cheeks.

The DM23 rounds also seem to be better in every way, though only slightly, but they appear to have their performance swapped with the DM13 rounds in the mechanics for some reason, so there's probably a bug in the code.

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/918053662026094287/3E946305A4138A6CCE1A206372309C16CAA79404/

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/918053662026090228/DE35DB45CE37F1C545A42F42A351E5AAE84AA644/

[Gjerrigknarken]

The 2A4 is thw abrams all over again. Where's my M833, REEEEEEE

[pompous]

Sir Det Mist a écrit :

Ki'agh a écrit :

They are tough cheeks, they are in fact stronger than the Abrams cheeks.

The DM23 rounds also seem to be better in every way, though only slightly, but they appear to have their performance swapped with the DM13 rounds in the mechanics for some reason, so there's probably a bug in the code.

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/918053662026094287/3E946305A4138A6CCE1A206372309C16CAA79404/

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/918053662026090228/DE35DB45CE37F1C545A42F42A351E5AAE84AA644/

The DM23 is performing as it did last patch, so im guessing its the DM23 is carrying over things it should from the 105 DM23 on the A1A1.

[pompous]

Gjerrigknarken a écrit :

The 2A4 is thw abrams all over again. Where's my M833, REEEEEEE

Because Gaijin cherry pick, they give one nation its actual round and then take the other nations tank and just give it any old thing and then they dont even make it work, so not only did it not get the DM33, it got a DM23 that doesnt work, again i must ask, does anyone at Gaijin check the work they are doing.

[Læms]

oh so not ppl are crying over 2A4 cuz other tanks can kill it? ur joking right? and here in sitting with XM1 and doing well only with 360mm pen come on man... id say germany needs a nerf until the spamm dies out and other nations get better tanks to back up their main tanks -.-

[Kay]

Sir Det Mist a écrit :

Ki'agh a écrit :

Because we still need more tanks at that BR, once there are more tanks, then it can be balanced properly by having the rounds it "used in real life" (When were those rounds issued? Did it ever use DM23 instead?)

The DM23 was basically standard as of the 2A4 so i dont even know why the DM13 is an option, the DM23 is broken right now, its actually acting more like the 105mm DM23 on the A1A1, but it had access to the DM33 and it would have used it often, Gaijin just pull stuff out of their ass when it comes, im pretty the DM13 was turned into a practice shell for he 2A4, the APDS on the chally is fiction, the thing never fired APDS

The challenger shouldn't have APDS, no.

But if we're going with "this round was issued to X tank" Regardless of what model/date we're looking at, then the T-64 should have ammunition on par with the T-90MS (things like the 3BM29 Nadfil-2 (for the T-64BV since the date of instroduction for this was 1982) or the 3BM46 Svinets DU penetrators)

[pompous]

Lorekor マグナス a écrit :

oh so not ppl are crying over 2A4 cuz other tanks can kill it? ur joking right? and here in sitting with XM1 and doing well only with 360mm pen come on man... id say germany needs a nerf until the spamm dies out and other nations get better tanks to back up their main tanks -.-

The 2A4 is nerfed, weak mantlet, bad ammo, and youre a 9.0.

[Obamenau]

Sir Det Mist a écrit :

Mindstream a écrit :

Nice strawman.

On more reason to not take you seriously anymore

, youve said in the past it must be accurate to history, and now you are saying it doesnt have to be, it

Quote, now.

[BejoBarokah]

Sir Det Mist a écrit :

BejoBarokah a écrit :

Well, OP or not i still value historical accuracy, even if it just a bit (like the mantlet)

There's BR for balance

Well, since the balance is important, i think gave it a low priority might be ok. As long they'll fix it

I know that something need to do to balance Top Tier

I think they need to add Chally Mk III and AMX-40

So your telling me that balance isnt the DM13 actually penning more then the DM23.

Well, it's not my point

My point is, the more it is historical accurate, the more i like it

TBH, IDK if DM13 pen more than DM23 IRL

But what i think is, let balance be actuated by BR, removal of some type of ammo (meaning they don't get it, not worsening the performance) if it felt they don't need it (but in case of Leo 2A4, it's just ridiculous when even Type 90 got them), modification (like G-Suit for plane). so far that's what i know

Also, better map design and MM. These thing actually affect the balance a lot

[pompous]

Ki'agh a écrit :

Sir Det Mist a écrit :

The DM23 was basically standard as of the 2A4 so i dont even know why the DM13 is an option, the DM23 is broken right now, its actually acting more like the 105mm DM23 on the A1A1, but it had access to the DM33 and it would have used it often, Gaijin just pull stuff out of their ass when it comes, im pretty the DM13 was turned into a practice shell for he 2A4, the APDS on the chally is fiction, the thing never fired APDS

The challenger shouldn't have APDS, no.

But if we're going with "this round was issued to X tank" Regardless of what model/date we're looking at, then the T-64 should have ammunition on par with the T-90MS (things like the 3BM29 Nadfil-2 (for the T-64BV since the date of instroduction for this was 1982) or the 3BM46 Svinets DU penetrators)

Id have no issue with that, infact i wish they would just make another game for just modern tanks and then add them all in without any compromise.

[pompous]

BejoBarokah a écrit :

Sir Det Mist a écrit :

So your telling me that balance isnt the DM13 actually penning more then the DM23.

Well, it's not my point

My point is, the more it is historical accurate, the more i like it

TBH, IDK if DM13 pen more than DM23 IRL

But what i think is, let balance be actuated by BR, removal of some type of ammo (meaning they don't get it, not worsening the performance) if it felt they don't need it (but in case of Leo 2A4, it's just ridiculous when even Type 90 got them), modification (like G-Suit for plane). so far that's what i know

Also, better map design and MM. These thing actually affect the balance a lot

But it didnt pen more IRL, thats the point.

[BejoBarokah]

Sir Det Mist a écrit :

BejoBarokah a écrit :

Well, it's not my point

My point is, the more it is historical accurate, the more i like it

TBH, IDK if DM13 pen more than DM23 IRL

But what i think is, let balance be actuated by BR, removal of some type of ammo (meaning they don't get it, not worsening the performance) if it felt they don't need it (but in case of Leo 2A4, it's just ridiculous when even Type 90 got them), modification (like G-Suit for plane). so far that's what i know

Also, better map design and MM. These thing actually affect the balance a lot

But it didnt pen more IRL, thats the point.

Well, if that's the case, then i agree that they need to fix it

[pompous]

BejoBarokah a écrit :

Sir Det Mist a écrit :

But it didnt pen more IRL, thats the point.

Well, if that's the case, then i agree that they need to fix it

But as usual they say nothing and i bet they wont do anything until 1.81 where the 2A4 will be an after thought.

[Meowscarada]

Sir Det Mist a écrit :

Ki'agh a écrit :

Because we still need more tanks at that BR, once there are more tanks, then it can be balanced properly by having the rounds it "used in real life" (When were those rounds issued? Did it ever use DM23 instead?)

The DM23 was basically standard as of the 2A4 so i dont even know why the DM13 is an option, the DM23 is broken right now, its actually acting more like the 105mm DM23 on the A1A1, but it had access to the DM33 and it would have used it often, Gaijin just pull stuff out of their ass when it comes, im pretty the DM13 was turned into a practice shell for he 2A4, the APDS on the chally is fiction, the thing never fired APDS

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/918053662026094287/3E946305A4138A6CCE1A206372309C16CAA79404/

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/918053662026090228/DE35DB45CE37F1C545A42F42A351E5AAE84AA644/

They havent said anything on fixing this, its a very stupid issue, im guessing they just copy pasted the round and forget to change most of the stats vs NERA.

While dm23, if it’s not acting realistically should be fixed, the Leo 2a4 doesn’t need dm33. The only reason the type 90 has it is because that’s the only round it was deployed with. Also the Leo 2a4 is a better tank than the type 90, its lack of composite on the LFP makes it an easier to kill target, while you’ll need to flank the Leo to even hope to kill it if you got a 105mm(outside of hitting the Mantlet which is hard when underfire).Overall I think you’re a wheraboo, all you do is complain about German MBTs sucking when they’re undertiered in comparison to most others. As I said I agree that if the dm23 isn’t working as it should it needs to be fixed(I should know about that, i own the chally), but that thing is by no means a downgrade. I can kill the 2k in my t-62, but that’d be a whole ‘nother Story with the 2a4.

[Kay]

Sir Det Mist a écrit :

Ki'agh a écrit :

The challenger shouldn't have APDS, no.

But if we're going with "this round was issued to X tank" Regardless of what model/date we're looking at, then the T-64 should have ammunition on par with the T-90MS (things like the 3BM29 Nadfil-2 (for the T-64BV since the date of instroduction for this was 1982) or the 3BM46 Svinets DU penetrators)

Id have no issue with that, infact i wish they would just make another game for just modern tanks and then add them all in without any compromise.

Well, I would, since it would completely ruin the balance of the game.

When the tank can't possibly be balanced by BR, then they can hold back things that were added to the tank at a later date (See: T-64A (1971)) so that it fits until the newer tanks get added and they can give it those things without completely ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ over everyone else.

If it got DM33 rounds it'd have to be 10.0 and the Japanese would need another Type-90, so they could actually compete with the renewed leopard spam