Panzer VII Löwe

[Purple Alessandro]

Will the Panzer VII Löwe ever be added in the game?

There is still a good spot for it after the maus ;)

[Eftwyrd]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Narf:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Eftwyrd:

the 109 z-0 was built and z1 was planned, i have to give you some credit there

Ursprünglich geschrieben von kamikazi21358:

The Bf 109Z-1 had a single version built.

The 109Z-0 (based on the F-4, 5x 20mm cannons) wasn't even finished when it got destroyed. It's documented that it was still being outfitted when that chapter ended.
The 109Z-1 (based on the G-6, 5x 30mm cannons) was NEVER built. It did not even start construction, much less had a prototype built.

And yes, it was 5 cannons. The version we have ingame is wrong. Gaijin hasn't acted on the report they received months ago.

What we have ingame is the definition of a paper vehicle. I'm not even judging whether they should have it or not. But it is undoubtably pure paper.

a version of the 109z was built but damaged before it could be tested and gaijin implemented its planned successor,

the lowe simply never existed off paper and never was going to, the maus was selected instead

there is a difference between these two things and how you choose to define 'paper vehicle' is merely a question semantics, this is not about where you personally draw that line

[Narf]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Eftwyrd:

a version of the 109z was built but damaged before it could be tested and gaijin implemented its planned successor

It's never been built, not even partially, that makes it a paper vehicle. Simple as that, no two ways around it. We could argue about the Z-0, because that one was at least mostly done, but the Z-1 is just simply that.

It's not like the Z-1 would have just been a slight iteration from the Z-0. The entire base of the plane, including the weaponry, had completely changed.

[Eftwyrd]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Narf:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Eftwyrd:

a version of the 109z was built but damaged before it could be tested and gaijin implemented its planned successor

It's never been built, not even partially, that makes it a paper vehicle. Simple as that, no two ways around it. We could argue about the Z-0, because that one was at least mostly done, but the Z-1 is just simply that.

It's not like the Z-1 would have just been a slight iteration from the Z-0. The entire base of the plane, including the weaponry, had completely changed.

it was two 109s joined together, not a completely new aircraft, f4s existed, g6s existed, the project to join two f4s was by some reports ready for flight testing before it was bombed, the second joining two g6s was in early stages. more than mere paper existed

you are simply choosing to define 'paper vehicle' in a way i disagree with, this argument is a pointless matter of perspective and semantics, there is a definate difference between a project for which actual material existed and a design which litterally only existed drawn on paper never even intended to be made as happend to the lowe

[saymyname]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Mindstream:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von AceHault:

We both know it would be extremely fun to play with paper tanks, and war thunder doesnt aim that much for realism...

When it comes to the actual vehicles yes they do.

Looks at E-100

[Katokevin]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von SAY_MY_NAME:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Mindstream:

When it comes to the actual vehicles yes they do.

Looks at E-100

I'd consider the E-100 the acceptable limit. A good chunk of the chassis was complete and with 1 fully finished Maus turret complete, it did technically have the hull and turret complete. The hull was still missing a fair amount of stuff, but, that's one of the reasons it was given out as a rare vehicle.

It's essentially the line I prefer to be the limit unless a nation REALLY needs something (like the Ho-Ri for example).

[kamikazi21358]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von SAY_MY_NAME:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Mindstream:

When it comes to the actual vehicles yes they do.

Looks at E-100

At least they had the decently to make it an event tank.

[Eftwyrd]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von SAY_MY_NAME:

Looks at E-100

this e100:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/66/E-100.jpg
then they just shoved a maus turret on it, at least both parts existed

look people we are getting derailed arguing semantics on what constitutes a 'paper tank' but can we at least agree some component of all the questionable ingame vehicles mentioned thus far actually existed, the lowe never existed off paper and was never going to

[saymyname]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Eftwyrd:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von SAY_MY_NAME:

Looks at E-100

this e100:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/66/E-100.jpg
then they just shoved a maus turret on it, at least both parts existed

look people we are getting derailed arguing semantics on what constitutes a 'paper tank' but can we at least agree some component of all the questionable ingame vehicles mentioned thus far actually existed, the lowe never existed off paper and was never going to

So basically Panther II, both parts existed...oh wait they want to remove it.

[Eftwyrd]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von SAY_MY_NAME:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Eftwyrd:

this e100:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/66/E-100.jpg
then they just shoved a maus turret on it, at least both parts existed

look people we are getting derailed arguing semantics on what constitutes a 'paper tank' but can we at least agree some component of all the questionable ingame vehicles mentioned thus far actually existed, the lowe never existed off paper and was never going to

So basically Panther II, both parts existed...oh wait they want to remove it.

the 'panther II' as seen ingame isnt a panther II, as previously explained the panther II hull existed but the project was canceled, the schmalturm turret comes from the successor project to produce a cheaper alternative upgrade to the panther resulting in the panther F, the Entwicklung project later on was set to replace all of germany's tanks with the e50 planned to replace the panther and putting an 88mm gun in it was discussed but i dont believe they even got as far as drawing it up. putting a panther II hull, with a panther F turret and a gun which physically wouldnt actually fit in said turret but 'might' have gone in the e50 which was supposed to replace the panther does not correspond to any real design ever proposed

EDIT: if you were to replace the 88 with the original 75 you might get away with calling it the speculative result of what the panther II project might have produced but even calling that paper is an insult to other paper designs as such a thing didnt even make it to the drawing board

[A Toaster]

what's the lowe stats anyway
armor mobility and firepower

[Eftwyrd]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von vipper998:

what's the lowe stats anyway
armor mobility and firepower

would have been a slightly heavier tiger II with a 105mm gun and only capable of ~30km/h

[A Toaster]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Eftwyrd:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von vipper998:

what's the lowe stats anyway
armor mobility and firepower

would have been a slightly heavier tiger II with a 105mm gun and only capable of ~30km/h

so another ♥♥♥♥♥♥ tiger 2 with the horrible 105 and even slower to get slaughtered by heatfs and apfsds and atgms?
no thanks

[kamikazi21358]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von vipper998:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Eftwyrd:

would have been a slightly heavier tiger II with a 105mm gun and only capable of ~30km/h

so another ♥♥♥♥♥♥ tiger 2 with the horrible 105 and even slower to get slaughtered by heatfs and apfsds and atgms?
no thanks

Tbf chances are it would be 6.7, but still don’t want to see it.

[Comrade Tiedanski 五月天]

There is still two variants of the Leopard I prototypes that hasn't been added in the game, which makes it the perfect candidates for the sucessors of the Panther II and 105 Tiger.

[Mocha]

Its a strange debacle,

Paper tanks are great fun, but the only game with paper tanks is WoT which WG are just utterly destroying.

WT on the other hand has nicer gameplay, but gaijin are stuckups that only want realistic vehicles so they have atleast something that they can use to put a "realism" tag on their game.