HE and HESH damage

[Windex]

Can someone please explain why sometimes, when you shoot a tank with HE or HESH, and kill them, you explode their ammo; somehow without even having to penetrate their armor? Is there a name for this? It happens sometimes with shots at the turret ring aswell.

[Kay]

HE and HESH rounds never penetrate armour.

The both do damage by either exploding outside the armour plate and pushing it in to the tank, or by exploding outside the armour and blowing parts of the internal facing armour off (the metal on the inside of the armour plate is blow off and sent ricocheting around the inside of the tank)

[Windex]

Originally posted by Ki'agh:

HE and HESH rounds never penetrate armour.

The both do damage by either exploding outside the armour plate and pushing it in to the tank, or by exploding outside the armour and blowing parts of the internal facing armour off (the metal on the inside of the armour plate is blow off and sent ricocheting around the inside of the tank)

Thanks dude, explains HE lol, HESH is just too good

[Blunder Bro]

Originally posted by Windex:

Originally posted by Ki'agh:

HE and HESH rounds never penetrate armour.

The both do damage by either exploding outside the armour plate and pushing it in to the tank, or by exploding outside the armour and blowing parts of the internal facing armour off (the metal on the inside of the armour plate is blow off and sent ricocheting around the inside of the tank)

Thanks dude, explains HE lol, HESH is just too good

I find it unreliable. Hate the Lorraine 155 so much... 3 crits on panzer 3 and half the time does little.

[Salami Tsunami]

I don't believe interior spalling and concussion effects are present in the WT physics engine. Which makes HE shells pretty much useless.

[Stridswombat]

Originally posted by Ki'agh:

HE and HESH rounds never penetrate armour.

The both do damage by either exploding outside the armour plate and pushing it in to the tank, or by exploding outside the armour and blowing parts of the internal facing armour off (the metal on the inside of the armour plate is blow off and sent ricocheting around the inside of the tank)

Technically HE DOES penetrate. SU-122 for example can penetrate the side of nearly all tanks it faces. The only time HE does anything is when it can nearly penetrate the armour, but only just. Then it sometimes throws small shrapnel through (I don't even think this is spalling, I think it just counts as a partial penetration of the HE shell) and that can sometimes get lucky and detonate ammo.

Otherwise it should have an effect on everything, even armour it can't penetrate. Try shooting a KV with it, doesn't do jack. Sadly HE is useless if it can't penetrate the armour you're firing at and that's caused precisely by spalling not being modeled seeminly at all for it.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by AK Rowling:

Originally posted by Ki'agh:

HE and HESH rounds never penetrate armour.

The both do damage by either exploding outside the armour plate and pushing it in to the tank, or by exploding outside the armour and blowing parts of the internal facing armour off (the metal on the inside of the armour plate is blow off and sent ricocheting around the inside of the tank)

Technically HE DOES penetrate. SU-122 for example can penetrate the side of nearly all tanks it faces. The only time HE does anything is when it can nearly penetrate the armour, but only just. Then it sometimes throws small shrapnel through (I don't even think this is spalling, I think it just counts as a partial penetration of the HE shell) and that can sometimes get lucky and detonate ammo.

Otherwise it should have an effect on everything, even armour it can't penetrate. Try shooting a KV with it, doesn't do jack. Sadly HE is useless if it can't penetrate the armour you're firing at and that's caused precisely by spalling not being modeled seeminly at all for it.

Higher armor values take bigger explosions for spalling to be created. In a way HE and HESH have a maximum armor value that they can "penetrate" though the shell itself just explodes on contact and pushes metal flakes off the backside rather than punching through.

Think of it like putting some sand on a cooking sheet, if you punch the back of that cooking sheet then the sand will fly up. Now if you were to replace that cooking sheet with an inch thick slab of metal and punch the back of that you'd not do much more than injure your hand.

[Kay]

Originally posted by Meat Baton:

I don't believe interior spalling and concussion effects are present in the WT physics engine. Which makes HE shells pretty much useless.

Most of it isn't there, It's partially there in "penetration" values (they give the fragments from the shell higher penetration so they do damage to the tank if armour is thin enough) but they don't really do spalling/internal armour damage in this game.

Originally posted by AK Rowling:

Originally posted by Ki'agh:

HE and HESH rounds never penetrate armour.

The both do damage by either exploding outside the armour plate and pushing it in to the tank, or by exploding outside the armour and blowing parts of the internal facing armour off (the metal on the inside of the armour plate is blow off and sent ricocheting around the inside of the tank)

Technically HE DOES penetrate. SU-122 for example can penetrate the side of nearly all tanks it faces. The only time HE does anything is when it can nearly penetrate the armour, but only just. Then it sometimes throws small shrapnel through (I don't even think this is spalling, I think it just counts as a partial penetration of the HE shell) and that can sometimes get lucky and detonate ammo.

Otherwise it should have an effect on everything, even armour it can't penetrate. Try shooting a KV with it, doesn't do jack. Sadly HE is useless if it can't penetrate the armour you're firing at and that's caused precisely by spalling not being modeled seeminly at all for it.

Depends on the armour and the round, thick enough armour will dissipate the energy from the HE round before it can cause spalling on the interior face.

The fragments from a HE shell can penetrate, and they penetration of the HE shells is usually from that (though it's more likely for HE rounds to do what I mentioned IRL, that isn't modelled in game)

personally, I'd have HE shells act like HESH shells with lower penetration alongside their fragmentation effect, so interior spalling still happened (and I'd have less spalling generated the thicker the armour is in relation to the shell's penetration) but that isn't what has been done.

[SuperbPledget]

Originally posted by Sexy Vorta:

Originally posted by Windex:

Thanks dude, explains HE lol, HESH is just too good

I find it unreliable. Hate the Lorraine 155 so much... 3 crits on panzer 3 and half the time does little.

Then you need to learn to properly aim it. I one shot pretty much anything with that 155, from panzer 3s to jagdtigers. Aim for the turret front to blow up the ammo below, or the upper part of the tracks to blow up ammo above.
Alternatively turret roofs and ground below.

[Blunder Bro]

Originally posted by JotAfonso:

Originally posted by Sexy Vorta:

I find it unreliable. Hate the Lorraine 155 so much... 3 crits on panzer 3 and half the time does little.

Then you need to learn to properly aim it. I one shot pretty much anything with that 155, from panzer 3s to jagdtigers. Aim for the turret front to blow up the ammo below, or the upper part of the tracks to blow up ammo above.
Alternatively turret roofs and ground below.

I have watched other people use HESH and high caliber HE, i am fine. I know where to aim. The game is just ♥♥♥♥♥♥.

Yeah turret roofs.... i get 1 shot all the time by cupola, but when i do it, i only get commander. Also been penned with APCBC shots on flat tops of kv tanks at ridiculous angles that should not only bounce, but also not be capable of penning....

Hell, i have seen so many times where a tank moves directly torwards me, i fire a 105mm solid shot from T29 at hull, it pens, goes right through chest of driver, but driver lives with only yellow or no damage. This has happened so many times with different tanks.

I once used Sabot to try and kill gunner of Jumbo. Several times it went through his chest and did nothing to him...

KV tanks are ♥♥♥♥♥♥ too. When you fire Panzer IV APCBC shots at point blank flat on side with no angling and 5 times it does nothing, then you know the game is ♥♥♥♥♥♥.

[Zalzany]

Originally posted by Sexy Vorta:

Originally posted by JotAfonso:

Then you need to learn to properly aim it. I one shot pretty much anything with that 155, from panzer 3s to jagdtigers. Aim for the turret front to blow up the ammo below, or the upper part of the tracks to blow up ammo above.
Alternatively turret roofs and ground below.

I have watched other people use HESH and high caliber HE, i am fine. I know where to aim. The game is just ♥♥♥♥♥♥.

Yeah turret roofs.... i get 1 shot all the time by cupola, but when i do it, i only get commander. Also been penned with APCBC shots on flat tops of kv tanks at ridiculous angles that should not only bounce, but also not be capable of penning....

Hell, i have seen so many times where a tank moves directly torwards me, i fire a 105mm solid shot from T29 at hull, it pens, goes right through chest of driver, but driver lives with only yellow or no damage. This has happened so many times with different tanks.

I once used Sabot to try and kill gunner of Jumbo. Several times it went through his chest and did nothing to him...

KV tanks are ♥♥♥♥♥♥ too. When you fire Panzer IV APCBC shots at point blank flat on side with no angling and 5 times it does nothing, then you know the game is ♥♥♥♥♥♥.

To bad when I drive my KV-1 I almost always die from one shot from a skilled german PZ IV who can pen me from any direction and kill me in one shot. OR the smaller germans can pen but not one shot me. Last time I had that warbond mission of 2 kills in heavy though "stupid easy" all I saw was 3.7 german only matches on other team. Yeah it took 5 matches to get 2 kills ans no matter the nation, I just got made into swiss cheese by skilled germans who could kill anything at 3.7.

First match that day shot five times by random germans in 3.7 all 5 penned I spent most of that match stuck on B with a dead driver and gunner, every time I replaced one a new german would roll up kill them and my teammate would kille them while i just watched un able to shoot to get a damn kill for that daily...

[Blunder Bro]

Originally posted by Cæsar:

Crew members can take a bullet to the head and live, and you expect this game to properly represent damage values?

What i expect is that if a tank is penned by a 105mm or 120mm APCBC shot and it goes through the drivers chest, that he at least acknowledges that he some kind of a boo boo...

[Blunder Bro]

Originally posted by Zalzany:

Originally posted by Sexy Vorta:

KV tanks are ♥♥♥♥♥♥ too. When you fire Panzer IV APCBC shots at point blank flat on side with no angling and 5 times it does nothing, then you know the game is ♥♥♥♥♥♥.

To bad when I drive my KV-1 I almost always die from one shot from a skilled german PZ IV who can pen me from any direction and kill me in one shot. OR the smaller germans can pen but not one shot me. Last time I had that warbond mission of 2 kills in heavy though "stupid easy" all I saw was 3.7 german only matches on other team. Yeah it took 5 matches to get 2 kills ans no matter the nation, I just got made into swiss cheese by skilled germans who could kill anything at 3.7.

First match that day shot five times by random germans in 3.7 all 5 penned I spent most of that match stuck on B with a dead driver and gunner, every time I replaced one a new german would roll up kill them and my teammate would kille them while i just watched un able to shoot to get a damn kill for that daily...

And yet when i go KV myself, i either get 1 shot at low tiers, or i sometimes survive in KV2 full uptier and take shots from 2 tigers, a comet, another KV, and i don't remember what else, but it was stupid.

I face a T54 while in Tiger 2, can't pen. I am T54 and even T34-85 can pen.

I go IS6 and get 1 shot by people who don't look like they are trying to thread a needle into my mantle weakspot. I face IS6, hit flat side while in Tiger 2, i fail 4 times.

I face U.S. T34 while in IS2 and even at point blank the front hull is all red. I go U.S. T34 even panzer IV can pen me in same spot.

I pen front of Tiger 2 with M103 solid shot, i hit driver window and shot does nothing. I am Tiger 2, this miracle of hitler-glass never happens for me.

[Blunder Bro]

Originally posted by Cæsar:

Originally posted by Sexy Vorta:

What i expect is that if a tank is penned by a 105mm or 120mm APCBC shot and it goes through the drivers chest, that he at least acknowledges that he some kind of a boo boo...

Crew members are buddhist warrior monks incapable of feeling pain or emotions

That makes sense. When did they add that? How come it doesn't always activate?

[Moosecow]

to explain why the ammo goes boom, the armor on the roof of the turret or hull is quite thin. thus if you hit the turret, even though there is not enough pen to penetrate the turret face, there is enough pen to pen the roof of the hull and thus the HE pens downwards and hits the ammo that way.

[Windex]

Originally posted by Purple:

to explain why the ammo goes boom, the armor on the roof of the turret or hull is quite thin. thus if you hit the turret, even though there is not enough pen to penetrate the turret face, there is enough pen to pen the roof of the hull and thus the HE pens downwards and hits the ammo that way.

Thanks