Why'd they remove the Flakpanzer 341?

[Атомный]

Like really? What was the reasoning behind? And dont tell me its to *balance* it out, because i have been using the ZSD and its ridiculous....
Like honestly any tank they removed.....why? Isnt the idea to have AS MANY VEHICLES AS POSSIBLE

[.roar]

Originally posted by Eftwyrd:

google is once again your friend, here is the suggestion as made on warthunders forum and all its quoted sources:
https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/382955-flakpanzer-iv-ostwind-ii/

it took me less than 30 seconds to find

Still doesn't answer my question - if a vehicle had/has to exist in order to be added to WT, then why was Coelian replaced with Ostwind II? That forum post gives only one site (the other two are dead) that provides no source on their claim of one prototype built.
It's a bad move to replace a vehicle that had at least a mockup built with a vehicle that probably didn't even exist.

[Eftwyrd]

Originally posted by .roar:

Originally posted by Eftwyrd:

google is once again your friend, here is the suggestion as made on warthunders forum and all its quoted sources:
https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/382955-flakpanzer-iv-ostwind-ii/

it took me less than 30 seconds to find

Still doesn't answer my question - if a vehicle had/has to exist in order to be added to WT, then why was Coelian replaced with Ostwind II? That forum post gives only one site (the other two are dead) that provides no source on their claim of one prototype built.
It's a bad move to replace a vehicle that had at least a mockup built with a vehicle that probably didn't even exist.

the german version of wikipedia linked there states two existed which quotes a book as its source... this really isnt hard

[Col. Cornbread]

Originally posted by Eftwyrd:

google is once again your friend, here is the suggestion as made on warthunders forum and all its quoted sources:
https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/382955-flakpanzer-iv-ostwind-ii/

it took me less than 30 seconds to find

Its Debated if the Ostwind 2 looked anything like the one we have in game which wouldn't work as the Right side loader doesn't have access to ammunition and both guns would eject into each other Jamming them instantly

[Sedition]

...but Gaijin did not remove the Ho Ri proto and production. There is only real proof of a wooden mockup despite some odd blog which “proofs” its built.

[Eftwyrd]

Originally posted by Sedition:

...but Gaijin did not remove the Ho Ri proto and production. There is only real proof of a wooden mockup despite some odd blog which “proofs” its built.

that 'odd blog' is made by maiwaffentrager, if you are not familiar with who that is shes a historian in her day job who just so happens to be the person gaijin hired for research on japanese vehicles... as to the ho ri production that has been admitted to be a mistake originating from miscommunication but the japanese tree is too sparse to remove vehicles when no viable alternatives are available

[Атомный]

Originally posted by Blitzkrieg Wulf:

Originally posted by 红客:

Isnt the idea to have AS MANY VEHICLES AS POSSIBLE

No.

Originally posted by Kuruk:

It'll probably be brought back as a premium vehicle so they can make more rubles.

No.

Originally posted by 红客:

Like really? What was the reasoning behind? And dont tell me its to *balance* it out, because i have been using the ZSD and its ridiculous....
Like honestly any tank they removed.....why?

Take two minutes. In those 120 seconds, go to your preferred search engine, and I'm certain you can search even the most basic of terms. "WT Flakpanzer removal". This[warthunder.com] is literally the very first hit on Google.

Once on the official news article, you can scroll down to the picture of a 341, captioned,
"... Whilst the vehicle was fully designed and proposed, due to the wartime situation no full prototype or production model was ever created. Only a full scale wooden mockup of the weaponry and turret, mounted on a full metal Panther chassis was ever made of this machine. In 1.91, the Ostwind II will take its position in the research tree and the Flakpanzer 341 will become a collectable vehicle as it was never fully completed project and other late war SPAAGs already offered superior alternatives to this machine."

Question answered in less than two minutes, to include the time it took to find the info in, and read the article.


This question has been kicked, beaten, mauled, and shot to death on this forum for months, and there is no clear end in sight.

Did that, it actually wasnt the first thing that popped up. Or at least at the time i searched it up. I use Baidu, and other times Sogou. And honestly, didnt know, so i mean you could, idk, sound a little less rude when replying? But anyway found my answer.

[.roar]

Originally posted by Eftwyrd:

the german version of wikipedia linked there states two existed which quotes a book as its source... this really isnt hard

Giving a source in german to english speaking majority, ok.
My point still stands, the existance of Ostwind II is debated and it shouldn't replace Coelian.

[Eftwyrd]

Originally posted by .roar:

Originally posted by Eftwyrd:

the german version of wikipedia linked there states two existed which quotes a book as its source... this really isnt hard

Giving a source in german to english speaking majority, ok.
My point still stands, the existance of Ostwind II is debated and it shouldn't replace Coelian.

god forbid a russian speaking devoloper should use a german source for a german vehicle and fail to justify themselves to you in english, ofcourse the vehicle should be removed immediately until you are satisfied /s

[.roar]

Originally posted by Eftwyrd:

god forbid a russian speaking devoloper should use a german source for a german vehicle and fail to justify themselves to you in english, ofcourse the vehicle should be removed immediately until you are satisfied /s

What a pathetic response, it was a random person giving the german source, he should've translated the Ostwind II part, for the sake of the english speaking majority. Ga*jin uses the most unreliable sources they can find anyway.
The /s does not make your post right nor funny.

[Eftwyrd]

Originally posted by .roar:

Originally posted by Eftwyrd:

god forbid a russian speaking devoloper should use a german source for a german vehicle and fail to justify themselves to you in english, ofcourse the vehicle should be removed immediately until you are satisfied /s

What a pathetic response, it was a random person giving the german source, he should've translated the Ostwind II part, for the sake of the english speaking majority. Ga*jin uses the most unreliable sources they can find anyway.
The /s does not make your post right nor funny.

because german historians are obviously unreliable sources on ww2 german vehicles /s

/s means sarcasm, sorry if i wasnt blatent enough so ill just state i am giving your 'majority english' entitlement the ridicule it deserves, if you have doubts do the research yourself and look up the german book thats clearly referenced, others who have presumably done the research have no obligation to justify themselves to you or anyone else

EDIT: as to the thread it has clearly been answered and i feel we have provided all the justification you deserve so i will unsubscribe and cease answering your pointless demands for everything to be served up to you on a silver platter

[.roar]

Originally posted by Eftwyrd:

because german historians are obviously unreliable sources on ww2 german vehicles /s

/s means sarcasm, sorry if i wasnt blatent enough so ill just state i am giving your 'majority english' entitlement the ridicule it deserves, if you have doubts do the research yourself and look up the german book thats clearly referenced, others who have presumably done the research have no obligation to justify themselves to you or anyone else

EDIT: as to the thread it has clearly been answered and i feel we have provided all the justification you deserve so i will unsubscribe and cease answering your pointless demands for everything to be served up to you on a silver platter

Another lame, pathetic response, work on your reading comprehension. I meant that gaijin uses unreliable sources, not that german historians are unreliable. I know what /s means, and that's why I said it's pathetic, because it contributes nothing to the discussion.
Let's say I provide a source in mandarin that states that chinese tanks use quantum technology which makes them penetrate 5000mm of any armor, and then I'd say "everything is in there, translate it yourselves, you lazy idiots! Do your own research if you disagree with my sources which you can't even read!!".

My question was not answered anywhere in this thread - if a vehicle had to exist at some point (in order to be added or remain in WT), then why was Coelian (only mockup made) replaced with Ostwind II (which we can't even be sure if it existed in the first place).
Kinda sad that you can't last that long in discussion, you run away when it goes south for you.

[Sedition]

Originally posted by Eftwyrd:

Originally posted by Sedition:

...but Gaijin did not remove the Ho Ri proto and production. There is only real proof of a wooden mockup despite some odd blog which “proofs” its built.

that 'odd blog' is made by maiwaffentrager, if you are not familiar with who that is shes a historian in her day job who just so happens to be the person gaijin hired for research on japanese vehicles... as to the ho ri production that has been admitted to be a mistake originating from miscommunication but the japanese tree is too sparse to remove vehicles when no viable alternatives are available

That doesn’t make it proof. And you say it youself: hired by Gajin.

[Pozieres]

Originally posted by Silent:

The biggest mistake WT ever made was removing some of the prototypes and wooden mockups. Yes, I know the Tiger 10.5 and Panther II weren't real, but the flakpanzer 341 was in a mockup stage. It really screws a lot of trees out of getting some decent unique prototype stuff to fill gaps with.

But, hey, shermans fighting more shermans is good too I guess. I'm just glad I got all of that stuff researched when I did.

IDK why you are glad, they are super crap tanks. I have the panther 2 and I would be happy to swap it for a prowler with AGM-88, oliver hazzard perry AWD, Patriot or a Sea Busters. I would pay someone to take my maus if I had one they are that bad

[The Wiggly Armed Man]

Originally posted by .roar:

Then why did ga*jin replaced a SPAAG for which a wooden mockup was made and an actual turret was built IIRC, with a SPAAG which existence is debated?

Because the SPAAG which existence is debated had a prototype built while the Coelian never reached that stage.

Originally posted by Sedition:

...but Gaijin did not remove the Ho Ri proto and production. There is only real proof of a wooden mockup despite some odd blog which “proofs” its built.

The Ho-Ri Prototype was an unbuilt mockup but the Ho-Ri Production is just completely fake with an engine that was never put into the tanks, a gun that was put on the Ka-To and not the Ho-Ri, and armour that couldn't of been made with Japan's production capability at the time. Imo it should just be removed despite no replacement being there, it's not like it's that good anyway with a very high repair cost, pretty much useless armour since no one shoots the UFP and just goes for the thinner turret, and a very average if not poor gun.

[.roar]

Originally posted by Shovel Knight:

Originally posted by .roar:

Then why did ga*jin replaced a SPAAG for which a wooden mockup was made and an actual turret was built IIRC, with a SPAAG which existence is debated?

Because the SPAAG which existence is debated had a prototype built while the Coelian never reached that stage.

Some sources claim that there was a prototype built, others claim there was no such vehicle ever made. If you have any sources then please, link some, in english preferably.