Give me a good reason about the Chi Tos and the Chi Ri II

[Kwoh]

The Chi To and the Chi Ri II are basically the same tanks.
The Chi Ri II is just a bigger brother with a 37mm.
Armor is the same, mobility is basically the same, the gun is the same.
WHY does that tank deserves a 5.0 because of that 37mm? That gun can barely pen the PUMA AT POINT BLANK, that thing can't pen the M24 AT POINT BLANK, why does that gun puts the Chi Ri II at 5.0? What does make that tank 5.0?
It can RARELY be fun. Am I suppose to side shot with the 37? flank with a bad mobility tank the size of the Reichstag? or is the armor of a 3.7 KV-1 ? (FRONT ONLY, KV HAS 75mm SIDE ARMOR)
What makes the Chi Ri II higher br than the other ones?
What even makes the Chi To 4.7? The gun uses a laughable APHE that bounces everything on it's path other than flat armor. The mobility is one of the worst at 4.7, I rather take the Churchill for its mobility over the Chi To, because that thing at least has good armor to deserve that mobility.
Does the turret traverse makes it 4.7? or in II's case, 5.0? one of the worse traverse I've played?
These tanks are the worst tanks i've played in this game, I have more than 2 thousand hours into this game, and even spaded, this are the worst tanks by BR ive seen, totally pain to grind.
The BEST tank in the japanese tree until 5.7 is the M24, which is 3.3 and I always take it with me and get more kills than with all the Chi To kills combined (props to the M24 tho, that thing is GOOD). I tried this for hours before saying anything, i just cant, everything out maneuvers you, have better gun, better armor, better turret traverse, anything.

What make does tank that high BR? Is this another one of the community things that can't kill X tank and say that X tank should be higher BR? I doubt because it's super easy to kill the Chi To, is this Gaijin's crusade to make every tank obsolete? Like moving M4A3 76 to 5.7? which was a perfectly balanced tank at 5.3, just like the T25? I'm scared they move the Conqueror to higher BR which is now a fun tank to play.

What makes these tanks that high BR? give me a good reason please im open to hear any playstyle.
I hope also the admins don't say this is a flame war post and ban me

[Illusionyary]

You mean the Chi-To's, and I agree. The uncapped shells are garbage and since the stealth change to normalization they now perform even worse against sloped armour like on the T-34s.

You could easily drop all three of these tanks to 4.3 as they all share the same gun and armour barely changes between them (US has the M6A1 heavy tank at 4.7 which has more armour and better guns than the 5.0 Chi-Ri). All the Chi-Ri has is that two shot autoloader, but it's easily one of the worst autoloader systems in the game and does not warrant its BR.

[Kwoh]

Originally posted by Illusionyary:

You mean the Chi-To's, and I agree. The uncapped shells are garbage and since the stealth change to normalization they now perform even worse against sloped armour like on the T-34s.

You could easily drop all three of these tanks to 4.3 as they all share the same gun and armour barely changes between them (US has the M6A1 heavy tank at 4.7 which has more armour and better guns than the 5.0 Chi-Ri). All the Chi-Ri has is that two shot autoloader, but it's easily one of the worst autoloader systems in the game and does not warrant its BR.

YEAH sorry, corrected that

[Kwoh]

Originally posted by Illusionyary:

You mean the Chi-To's, and I agree. The uncapped shells are garbage and since the stealth change to normalization they now perform even worse against sloped armour like on the T-34s.

You could easily drop all three of these tanks to 4.3 as they all share the same gun and armour barely changes between them (US has the M6A1 heavy tank at 4.7 which has more armour and better guns than the 5.0 Chi-Ri). All the Chi-Ri has is that two shot autoloader, but it's easily one of the worst autoloader systems in the game and does not warrant its BR.

Dude the 17 Pounder is carried over from 3 ish BR to 5.7 BECAUSE ITS DAMN GOOD and its on even better platforms like the avenger or the Centurion I
These ♥♥♥ ones are just... not worth it, both the guns and the platforms theyre in

[RogueSoldier]

Welcome to japan. Its not part of the big 3 so it won't see much love. The "Pak-Puma" is a 3.0 while the Na-To is 3.3 and the Chi-Nu II is 4.0 even though the Pz. IV F2 is 3.3. The Ferdinand and T28 are 6.3 but the Ho-Ri production is 7.0. ST-A's are only good for their HEATFS but aside from that they are garbage. I could go on but I digress. Japan is not a nation to play like the US/USSR/GER where you can have plenty of great line ups and fun casual times. you gotta tryhard and hope to God you get some good MM with the decent maps and bad enemies.

As for the Chi-Ri II, yea no its got nothing at that BR. I play it often just to see what I can do for tryhard sake but no, i would rather take the M24 at BR 5.0 over the Chi-Ri II.

The one thing the Chi-Ri II teaches you to do is to plan and be patient above all else. You gotta expect every encounter to be as stacked against you and have a mindset of "you'll lose on equal standards" when fighting an enemy. That will help you to utilize the terrain and your gun more while making you a better longshot. It'll also teach you to move away from the front line and let someone else serve as "Tip of the Spear."

But hey, it makes you a better player for enduring Japan. Whenever I swap to my US/USSR/GER lineup, i usually end up top of the board for points and kills.

[Rumpelcrutchskin]

Havent played Chi-Ri II since I got it spaded when Japan launched, it`s pretty much useless now.
Chi-Nu II grinded almost entire tree for me altough the last BR raise for it was kinda unnecessary.

[SwooshBear]

From somebody who started playing the Chi-Ri II after the auto loader got nerfed I have to say that to be honest I can do well with it. Spaded its mobility is suprisingly decent for its enormous size, and as a German main my play style suits the Japanese tanks well as well as the Chi Ri II.

I think the reason I do well with it is the fact that the reload after the auto loader is empty is like, the same as any other medium tank just about. So there's not much of a punishment for wasting your autoloader rounds too quickly. And the tank sitting at 5.3 means I'm not going to be seeing USA 6.7 bs and can stay relevent as a flanker in uptiers using the Chi Ri II's decent mobility.

Imo its fine, and it doesn't need to be lowered

[CH13F]

simple. you need to unlock it to unlock stb1

[Haegler]

I had a blast with those tanks back when I unlocked them and played them first, didn't mind the BR and everything that much. Japan up to 6.0-6.3 was wonderful to play in Arcade. Chi-Ri II was actually my favourite tank.

Post pen upgrade I had to notice that the gun was performing worse than I remembered but the tank was still decent and could do well enough.

Is it comparable to other tanks of the tier? Not really. Would it be more comparable to lower tier tanks and do better there? Of course. Does it do particularly bad where it's at? Not really.

[Kwoh]

I see everyone agreeing, but yet, these tanks are still at that BR even after the pen upgrade. It means something bad on your game if you rarely see the ENTIRE 4.0-5.7 tech tree of a nation. It means they are horrible and no one wants business with them, it's not one tank that you rarely see, like the Archer, which has an amazing gun for its BR, but people only neglect him by the fact it's a different tank to get used to, which is not the case the japanse tanks in that range, no one plays it because its simply BAD.

[Haegler]

Originally posted by Kwoh:

I see everyone agreeing, but yet, these tanks are still at that BR even after the pen upgrade. It means something bad on your game if you rarely see the ENTIRE 4.0-5.7 tech tree of a nation. It means they are horrible and no one wants business with them, it's not one tank that you rarely see, like the Archer, which has an amazing gun for its BR, but people only neglect him by the fact it's a different tank to get used to, which is not the case the japanse tanks in that range, no one plays it because its simply BAD.

They don't have any 5.7 tanks last I checked. And only one 5.3, American at that so well camouflaged one might say. One 5.0. One 4.7. One 4.3. One 4.0.

The tanks are fine enough. They work well enough. They could work better. But they work well enough.

But they come without any lineups in that specific area which additionally worsens them and Japan in that BR range.

[Kwoh]

Originally posted by Haegler:

Originally posted by Kwoh:

I see everyone agreeing, but yet, these tanks are still at that BR even after the pen upgrade. It means something bad on your game if you rarely see the ENTIRE 4.0-5.7 tech tree of a nation. It means they are horrible and no one wants business with them, it's not one tank that you rarely see, like the Archer, which has an amazing gun for its BR, but people only neglect him by the fact it's a different tank to get used to, which is not the case the japanse tanks in that range, no one plays it because its simply BAD.

They don't have any 5.7 tanks last I checked. And only one 5.3, American at that so well camouflaged one might say. One 5.0. One 4.7. One 4.3. One 4.0.

The tanks are fine enough. They work well enough. They could work better. But they work well enough.

But they come without any lineups in that specific area which additionally worsens them and Japan in that BR range.

They have the M4A3 76, which is 5.7, and thats a BR range im talking about
And no dude, they dont work at the BR they at and I didnt see you giving any reason other than luck.

[Haegler]

Originally posted by Kwoh:

Originally posted by Haegler:

They don't have any 5.7 tanks last I checked. And only one 5.3, American at that so well camouflaged one might say. One 5.0. One 4.7. One 4.3. One 4.0.

The tanks are fine enough. They work well enough. They could work better. But they work well enough.

But they come without any lineups in that specific area which additionally worsens them and Japan in that BR range.

They have the M4A3 76, which is 5.7, and thats a BR range im talking about
And no dude, they dont work at the BR they at and I didnt see you giving any reason other than luck.

Ah, was it increased then? That makes matters even worse for 5.7, since they have no close lower BR to back it up, the next tank below it being 5.0. One couod factor in the premium Heavy Tank No. 6...but it's not available anymore and premium anyway so I wouldn't include it in the discussion.

You didn't see me giving luck as a reason in the first place. The only thing you saw me listing was that I had fun, that the gun is alright and that they have no line-ups. Not sure where you got luck from.

[Kwoh]

Originally posted by Haegler:

Originally posted by Kwoh:

They have the M4A3 76, which is 5.7, and thats a BR range im talking about
And no dude, they dont work at the BR they at and I didnt see you giving any reason other than luck.

Ah, was it increased then? That makes matters even worse for 5.7, since they have no close lower BR to back it up, the next tank below it being 5.0. One couod factor in the premium Heavy Tank No. 6...but it's not available anymore and premium anyway so I wouldn't include it in the discussion.

You didn't see me giving luck as a reason in the first place. The only thing you saw me listing was that I had fun, that the gun is alright and that they have no line-ups. Not sure where you got luck from.

"Having fun" is something i also mentioned. Yes the Chi Ra II can be fun, if you get luck in matches are lower BR, then it is fun indeed, not even op, just fun. But see, that's low BR and that's the main issue