Is Bf 109 objectively superb or it just fit my playstyle?

[prokophapala]

I don't like playing single one nation, I equally developed all main trees (USA, USSR, German, Britain, from the start and Italian more recently). I tried to play all airplanes I read about from historical books.

Yet gradually I converged to strongly prefer Bf 109. If I play Bf 109 F or G I get almost always at least 1 kill per game (in realistic battles). If I play other planes I struggle to do so. It just seems Bf 109 has no bigger weakness, while it has several strong points (it is like T-34 of air battles). Actually the only thing wihich seems to match Bf109 in my eyes is C205, which is in fact Italian Bf 109 :-)

More specifically Bf 109 has:
1) Superior climb to almost anything (~20m/s). In RB as they are now it is critical to climb from the start as fast as possible before the enemy teams meet in the middle of map. I guess this was different in real war as the planes (e.g. American bomber escort) already had maximum altitude. What is realistic that almost always plane/team with altitude advantage wins.
2) Nose mounted cannons - Maybe I did not learn yet how to perceive perspective in 3rd person view, but I find it much harder to aim with wing mounted cannons than with nose mounted. On top of that MG151 20mm seems to be total killer (one shot kills) in comparison to other 20mm - perhaps thanks to minengeschoss.
3) Both Roll rate and Turn rate are decent (above average) I would say, although not totally on the top. But usually I don't need extreme maneuverability, because I cannot aim my gun in too tight maneuveres.
4) Energy retention is also quite decent (in comparison to other light maneuverable fighters with good climb). The common tradeoff is climb-vs-retention (heavy climb bad but keeps velocity longer). Bf retention is surprisingly good considering to how fast it gains altitude.

Bf109 in comparison to other aircrafts (Realistic Battes BR 2.0-5.0 ):

vs Spitfire
1) Spit is glorified for its turn ability. OK, fine. But I don't know how to use it perhaps. I cannot aim guns in tightest turns. Enemy will roll out of my turns and I cannot follow so I cannot keep on his tail very long. Also If fully engage in turn fight using maximum turn capability I loose speed so quickly I rather avoid that. Therefore I cannot use turn advatage very often.
2) It has slow max speed and bad energy retention. It is hard to build up energy in longer term.
3) It has poor turn roll rate (considering how light plane is this)
4) all guns wing mounted - perhaps I'm stupid, I just cannot hit anything. Maybe they have also slow muzzle velocity, or maybe more trun-fighting playstyle with spitfire makes aiming so much harder ... but simply I cannot hit enemy in front of me.
5) It climbs fast but not as fast as Bf109.
=> Too much turn fighter for me, cannot aim

vs Typhoon/Tempest
- On paper this plane seems very good:
1) very fast for its rank, good energy retention (thanks to being heavy),
2) Good firepower 12x MGs or 4x 20mm. but in wings :(
3) Turn rate, and climb rate are also decent considering how heavy it is (this is all thanks to great Napier Sabre engine)
- But in practice it is not great, I have really difficutly to get kills, because:
4) really horrible roll rate (almost as horrible as some twin engine)
5) generally sluggish response to controls ( although continuous trun is quite fast, it takes longer time to establish steady-state when you move cursor ), this makes aiming rather difficult - it is like heavy pendulum on long stick.
=> Too much heavy, cannot aim

vs Yak-1
- It seems almost perfect
1) Acceleration, climb-rate, Turn-rate are all great - some even greater than Bf 109
2) roll rate is totally awesome (second only to Fw190)
3) It has only single nose mounted 20mm cannon + 1x MG, both with very limited ammo, yet I can kill more efficiently with this than with 4x 20mm hispanos in wings
- So Is there any problem?
4) flat top speed is not so great <600km/h
5) It is very easy to loose wings in steep dive (you cannot pass 680km in dive? WTF - P-47 reach in leveled flight). Therefore you cannot realistically boom&zoom at all, and decent energy fighting is also a problem. Superior climb rate is not such big advantage in this case.
6) High-altitude speed/performance is quite poor, much worse than Bf109
=> too bad boom&zoom
NOTE : Yak-7 and Yak-9 are generally inferior to Yak-1, I did not researched Yak-3 maybe they are much better

vs La-5 mostly (FN)
On paper it looks very close to Bf109, So why I don't kill so much with it? I don't really know:
1) climb-rate, turn-rate, and even roll-rate seems to be on par with Bf109
2) top speed is slightly lower ( 620km/h for La-5FN vs 665km/h for Bf109-F4 both at 6000m) but that is not so big difference. Perhaps worse energy retention (?)
3) two nose-mounted ShVAK 20mm seem appropriate (considering Yak-1 is fine with just one). Perhaps they have lower muzzle velocity and definitely lower explosive load than MG151, but again Yak-1 is fine with half that.
4) The wings clips at slightly lower speed (735km/h) than Bf109 (790km/h). Does not seems like big difference, but it is. I worry to boom&zoom with La-5 singnificantly more than with Bf 109.
=> almost like Bf109 but not yet

vs I-185
1) something between Bf109 and Fw190 (climb,turn,roll,), but slower than both (615km/h)
it typically lean to the worse side (max dive speed, firepower, roll rate .. more like Bf109; turn-rate and climb-rate more like Fw-190)
2) 3x nose mounted 20mm ShVAKs are good firepower, but MG151s are still much better
=> between Fw190 and Bf109 but not as good.

vs P-39 / P-63
1) cannot use nose mounted M2 37mm => don't use this plane

vs P-51
1) biggest advantage are perhaps 4x 20mm hispano are, despite being wing-mounted. But in realistic battle it is hard to aim. Paradoxically I can aim with P-51 much better than Spitfire or Typhoon, perhraps due lower turn-rate (lower lead required) and faster roll rate (can re-adjust turn plane faster)
2) poor climb (13m/s)
3) not great turn (20s but only at high speed)
4) perhaps good energy retention
5) quite good max climb speed 845km/h
=> slightly more boom&zoom than Bf109, but not purely. Close to Fw190 but wing mounted guns not as good.


vs F4U
1) Surprisingly good Boom&zoom for its rank.
2) at BR2.7 it is faster (620km/h) than anything (perhaps except Typhoon 630km/h)
3) it has great roll-rate (much better than Typhoon)
4) turn rate (24s) seems pretty bad on paper, but in practice it seems to turn better at least for short period with flaps (until it loose speed)
5) climb rate 12.3m/s is the biggest weakens
6) dive speed up to 885km/h
=> pure boom&zoom, predecessor of P-47 but unique on the low rank (BR2.7-3.0)

vs P-47
1) Great top speed >700km/h and great energy retentin
2) Turn rate is abysmal (25s) especially as low speed. Comparing this with Bf109 makes little sense. This is purely boom&zoom with no trun-fight ability. NEVER loose speed and energy by sharp turns.
3) Climb rate ~10.6m/s is abysmal (worse than many twin engines). It makes it hard to employ high-altitude superiority when you cannot reach high altitude before the enemy teams meet in the center. (again - make sure you never loose energy by truning or staying low too long )
4) 8x wing mounted .50mg does not kill instantly, it requires keep it on target for some time (which may be difficult in quick fly-by boom&zoom). Positive side is practically INFINITE amount of ammo.
4) Wings hardly ever break of (885km/h max dive speed)
=> purest boom&zoom, useless in anything else, not sure if better than Fw190 - despite P-47 is faster and have better energy retention Fw190 is better in everything else.

Fw-190 (~A5)
On paper does not seem so good, but it surprises in game when you get used to it
1) The roll rate is totally awesome!!!! best in the game (too bad nobody write roll rate in stats)
2) Guns are totally awesome!!! 4x nose mounted 20mm MG151 - everything which cross it is dead instantly. With U12 you can have up to 6x MG151 which is massacre! (not researched yet) ... this is better than P-47 8x .50mg or perhaps better than anything else.
3) the turn-rate (22s) is quite poor - especially at low speed, but not as bad as P-47 (25s)
4) climb rate 14m/s much worse than Bf109 or other light fighters, but not as bad as P-47 (10.6m/s)
5) it is not so fast in leveled flight (660km/h is the same as Bf109) considering how bad trun-fighter it is. P-47 is much faster (700km/h), but you don't fight in leveled flight, and thanks to better climb rate you can dive more often than P-47. P-47 have better energy retention though.
6) The wings never clip (you can reach >900km/h in dive!!) - this is even better than P-47.
=> perfect boom&zoom, in most respect (but leveled speed and energy retention) better than P-47

[Illusionyary]

BF 109s are meta planes with one of the best cannons in the game so...

[Lunovus]

TLDR:
Early 109s (before K) are OP, nuff said

[PenguinFlover]

Originally posted by Lunovus:

TLDR:
Early 109s (before K) are OP, nuff said

haven't played th K yet.
but yeah, they're good. only thing missing is the inifinite WEP of the focke-wulfs.

[halolo39]

Originally posted by Lunovus:

TLDR:
Early 109s (before K) are OP, nuff said

the K is still OP after you spade that thing, the boost pressures in game is based a one time test setting that somehow persisted and the godly amount of energy retention.

[DevilDaRebel]

Originally posted by Lunovus:

TLDR:
Early 109s (before K) are OP, nuff said

The K is where it REALLY shines.

[FD_Stalker]

Originally posted by dresden:

K is the most broken one. But since Germaboos are used to to turn fight everything they can't usually make it work.

How is it supposed to work when late spitfire becomes a full better bf109??? Outturn outrun outclimb what bf109k can do the spitfire just can do better

[florble mcfumperdink]

See, I note a lot of people struggle of ways to figure out how to balance the mighty Me-109. Well I see a high amount of suggestions to give them their realistic lock-up issues where they could only pull 5 to 6 Gs above 475 kilometers an hour but as an allied pilot I think that's a bit of an extreme handicap in a game where we can engage out to a kilometer away and have 3rd person views, especially considering the high speed maneuverability of their allied counterparts (mustangs with korean war modifications to their control surfaces anyone?).

My personal suggestion is to just fix their thermodynamics by making them overheat like they should, since they currently overheat like they are on 75% or 80% engine boost as opposed to their rated 100% or WEP numbers. Currently they cool down exceptionally easily (except for some of the G models... we won't talk about those)

So, naturally if you make them have the according thermodynamic issues associated with high boost power in a late 30s design updated to mid 40s tech they will naturally be made to lower engine throttle during a climb, meaning that they can't climb more than 2 kilometers above every allied plane, making it more of an even playing field.

Now if we wanna go full realism on everything then that would pose a SEVERE (and unnecessary) issue for most of the 109s since they tended to explode randomly if they went above 800km/h, not to mention accidentally kicking the rudder during a turn at maneuvering speeds can cause the semi-unstable airframe to enter an uncontrollable dive, inevitably plummeting into the ground if the dive began below 1.5 kilometers in altitude.

Also the control surfaces on the 109s were never really updated or improved very much past the original E variants, meaning that below 200mp/h (320 km/h) or above about 300mp/h (480km/h) the control surfaces on most variants struggled heavily, meaning the aircraft was essentially flying with minimal controls (essentially trim only) for about a kilometer off of the runway, hence why so many got slapped by P38s, P40s, P47s, Spitfires, Typhoons etc. on takeoff or landing during the war.

So now that I have sufficiently ranted about the 109s and their overperforming boost characteristics, can we talk about why the Fw-190s turn like absolute buses in this game even though IRL it was essentially in all ways (except for extreme high-G pilot blackout type maneuverability) equal or just about equal to the merlin spitfires?