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Rb just feels like an arcade mode though. Auto aim/range adjustment etc. Havent tried AB but cant see it being too different. But no one i know bothers with naval now. All found it pretty boring and only did it initially to grind out vehicles.
Most of which just did 1-2 nations and have no urge to go back.
I find them more talking about individual ships etc then ever actually wanting to go play them
...You know that 'the red team wins most matches' is inescapably false, right? Both teams see the other as red, so if the red team wins, the red team also loses at the same time.
If you see the green team lose a large majority of the time, that means you're either personally unlucky or bad enough at the mode that you manage to drag down the teams you're on. This is true in all the usual modes, of course, not just naval.
(The green team does lose most of the time, because there are sometimes draws which seem to count as both teams losing.)
Yeah, no, you're quite wrong here. There's a number of big differences, including the fact that RB has manual range adjustment.
That said, they're relatively subtle differences, not things that radically change the structure of play like in air RB and to a lesser extent GF RB:
-As usual, AB has a sizable performance bump to all vehicles. And torpedoes too!
-AB means that the planes follow AB rules. The aiming aids and in-air re-arming greatly increase the power of bombing. The flight model changes may make them more able to survive AA fire too.
-AB has the usual enemy spotting markers. RB has the usual RB situation for that, which means it's easy to overlook enemy vessels and the map is mostly useless for telling where the enemy is.
-The aforementioned range adjustment, which IMO actually makes RB gunnery handier, because automatic range adjustment gets it wrong and you can't do anything to fix it. Certain boats do have fully automatic range adjustment - possibly only the ones with only one weapon group.
I meant the auto ranging as soon as you target. The slight range adjustments alone don't make it feel like an RB mode.
If it didn't have the autorange at all but having to manual set range initially and minor adjust from there it would make a lot more sense.
Its also the only RB mode where you can have an enemy vehicle targetted.
Not saying it would work for RB ships, it just feels like they had no real idea for a 'realistic' mode and just threw something together.
Just because it is slightly less arcade then full arcade mode doesn't make it feel like a realistic version.
It would be realistic and very occasionally useful to be able to do manual range setting rather than having little option except dial in a particular target, though.
Huh, really? I'll have to check that when I next log in...
Frankly naval needed that, and aside from its somewhat iffy relationship with spotting it's outright realistic - giving directions to your crew is a legitimately important part of naval battles. You have to be able to select targets so that you can set targets for AI gunners.
I wouldn't really say any of the other 'realistic' battles do either.
It might even make firing at ships hiding behind land/rocks easier as sometimes the guns all of a sudden change trajectory in some of those situations. Quite often as a target goes behind a small island my guns have lowered and fired directly at the island without me manually adjusting. Where if i was manually aiming with a target range i knew of i could lob them over. (unsure if that was just an early issue fixed, havent played ships in awhile, felt way too arcade/uninteresting after awhile).
Id assume on a ship you would have crew that would be already feeding ranges to target almost realtime.
I meant selecting a target while you are in control of a gun, which with the auto ranging is needed.
You can select a target in RB air just for the sake of team commands. And that would be fine in ships, but i still think with pure manual ranging and selection of enemy vehicles just for teamwork commands would make for a better Rb style game.
hell you wouldnt even need to select targets and could just ping map.to warn others.
With the other game modes there is a much bigger difference. Tanks there is no pen indicator like arcade. You have to manual judge ranges etc, or manually rangefind/set crosshair ranges to match.
Air you don't have a lead indicator so again you are judging the range yourself to lead.
Then there is ships, with what is basically the same assist in arcade tanks.
And that is pretty much how it feels, like arcade tanks on water. Maybe its just the easy comparison to an already existing arcade mode that makes it feel so half done.
With the other 2 game modes having far bigger differences, ships just feels like you have 2 slightly different arcade modes.
It feels more like an after thought then its own real gamemode.
That is what I was suggesting, yes.
(It's sort of an issue. What happens is that you lose the target selection because you can't see the boat anymore, and when you don't have a target selected and point at the terrain for a bit the range setting adjusts to the terrain you're pointing at. They definitely could do with an improvement to how ranging control without a selected target works. Maybe just use the rangefinder key from tank RB and only set range to terrain when you press it? There's also the reverse problem where it'll automatically select a target near your crosshair when you fire if you don't have a current selection, which is sometimes not what you wanted...)
...So why are you saying that having that is unrealistic, then?
So I'm not sure what your point is about selecting targets then?
In naval, you need to be able to select them for crew commands, not for communication with your team.
It might be true that other RB modes are more different from their corresponding AB modes. Might. But 'different from AB' and 'realistic' are very different claims...
I posted about differences between naval AB and RB. I think they're pretty big. Not as big as air AB vs. RB for sure, arguably as big as tank AB vs. RB, at least below the attack helicopter BRs.
I'd agree that they didn't really come up with two different game modes for naval. To me it looks more like they made naval RB and then flipped a few switches to make it 'more arcade' than the other way around.
Ships don't have "the same aim assist as in arcade tanks" at all. On so many levels.
The first of which of course is that arcade tanks still has the same manual gun elevation as RB tanks. It just has a fall-of-shot indicator, which somewhat works. If you're at short enough range, as it outright disappears at longer range. Meanwhile, ships always use dialed-in range adjustments rather than sight-based range adjustment. (This is, of course, totally correct for most naval weapons.)
Ships also don't get anything that gives them pointers on shot placement or armor penetration, in either AB or RB, though armor penetration is rarely a problem at most naval BRs. And of course in RB no lead pointers for AA - though those were of dubious use anyway.
Wasnt saying it was needed or even good for ships, just pointing out that every other game mode it is up to the player to Either set a range, use a mildot style scope or lead. By finding the range(with rangefinders) or judging the distance on the fly.
Meanwhile you have navy which just Automates the ranging and takes the job out of your hands. Like arcade tanks.
both agree here
(in regards to ship crew keeping range info to you )
Theres a difference between knowing the ranges quickly and having a semi automated targetting system where you just select target after target and 1 button basically sorts out the rest.
Well that is half the issue, its our opinions on how the game mode feels.
I feel like it is just as much an arcade feeling game mode as arcade tanks.
i dont mind slight automations like AA autofiring as you are handling anti ship weapons etc. As there are far too many roles for 1 player to fill accurately at once.
But range automation(with slight player adjustment) is a bit of a downside for me. Especially when that automation takes away accurate control (example listed above we both agreed on).
Id personally like hitcam removed or weakened from RB(at the very least mg shots dont rigger hit cam) and kill cam not to show the location of the kill, but merely how you were killed.
No problem with dialed in ranges. But it should be completely up to the player to use scroll wheel or such to increase range, adjust range, and change ranges for a new target.
Its not a case of what is happening but how. Arcade is where assists/automation should be.
Atleast how i see it anyway.
Maybe if they bring out a SB ships it will be closer to what im after. But for me, RB ships does just feel arcade tanks. AB tanks was ok when it was first released, but playing it more i just came to hate it more and more to where i wont step foot in there. Rb ships just gave me more of that feel.
It might just be ship combat as a whole. Just 2 ships firing at each other over and over to eliminate crew from each section feels akin to hitpoints, but instead of calling it hitpoints, its . replaced with crew numbers.
Now i dont mind disagreeing with someone. As i said, to me it feels just like a pure arcade game mode when in control of a ship. To you, it feels different. Just because there is a mode that feels even more arcadey doesnt make this feel like a better game mode then it is.
Im not saying what id like to see in the game mode would make it more popular, just how certain aspects of the game mode are a negative to me.
Making you furiously spin the mousewheel for several seconds trying to get your range setting from 2 km to 9 km while changing targets would add nothing remotely good to any game. Let alone in naval battles that have the player quite overburdened already without adding stupid busywork.
If you think that all you need to do for naval combat is pick your target and hit the firing button, you either never learned to play naval or have forgotten how it works. Range adjustment is constantly needed to shoot effectively, as is leading since you're normally shooting from one moving vessel to another with multi-second flight times on your shots. This is, incidentally, the biggest reason I think naval AB is bad - and not because it makes shooting easier. With the actually-automated ranging AB imposes, you simply can't shoot very well, because the automatic range setting gets it wrong and doesn't update fast enough. And you wind up doing silly things like pushing your aimpoint down well below the surface to try to compensate for the game over-elevating your guns....
Also, I just seriously feel I must repeat that describing anything about the gunnery as 'like tank AB' misrepresents naval RB, naval AB, and tank AB all at once.
The damage model is...not the best feature. Though it's objectively quite different from hit points. (You could say each part and compartment has hit points, but the way that works for the ship overall is more complicated.) I don't think that it is what it is for any kind of gamification reason, though. I think it's just the best they could come up with. I can't say that I've got a better idea for it.