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Also the majority of french armour were composed of light tanks, most of which were H35 and R35 tanks with a few H39 mixed in. Most had short 37mm guns.
go read about the French counterattack in Flavion, Belgium.
The problem was with the French doctrine of war, they were made as infantary tank, they were mixed with the infantry battalion and was made to advance in pace with them plus no air support.
At that time the Germans already had seperate doctrine composed entirely of tank, and France fell, because Blitzkrieg happened soo fast, that the French didn't even have the time to say "I Surrender". You can't win a war with tanks but they were superior in early era!
Reliability, mobility and good crew performance make a good tank, not armour. In almost every regard aside from armour protection the B1 is a bad design as nearly everything else has a flaw or is outdated. It's bad for the same reason the late-war german heavies failed.
Wtf dude... No... The very first tank that's ever considered an MBT by anyone were the production version of the Centurion.
While the Somua combined decent armour protection with mobility, it still had poor visibility, a 1-man turret, a lack of crew and most of them didn't have a radio. It's the closest they got to a decent medium tank but it s till didn't get close enough. For example the only significant advantage it had over a PZ3 or 4 was the slighlty thicker armour, but that's marginal. It didn't have any significant advantage in firepower, the mobility wasn't significantly better, crew performance was much worse (1-man compared to 3-man turret), visibility was poor (bad optics, lack of and very narrow view ports) and again they mostly didn't have radios.
It was by far their best tank design (except for possibly AMC35), but it wasn't amazing. The problem with french tanks is partly usage, but also partly their design as they were designed for a type of war that simply didn't happen.
The French light tanks for example were overall abysmally bad. The B1 was heavily armoured, but otherwise outdated. The Somua was alright for its age, but it had a number of design flaws that weighed it down and it was the in the minority. H35 and R35 tanks made up the bulk of german armour during ww2.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMqbkQcDe9E
That's the sort of tank that most of the french armour in ww2 was composed of and there's VERY little positive to say about it.
I unlocked French tanks last month and played them for about a week straight, in between daily tasks. I have numerous issues with them at low tier. Starting with the reserves, the only one that I could get any results at all out of was the AMX, which for some inexplicable reason was granted APHE ammo, which is of course the ammo of choice in this game, at least at low tier. Being small calibre (30mm? can't recall exactly) it isn't particularly good APHE, but the pen was adequate and the terminal ballistics were adequate. However, like the rest of the BR 1 Frenchies, it got one shotted by anything that hit it. And it goes up against M3A1 which has a beastly 90mm of penetration, so good luck finding an angle that will bounce shots. At virtually any range, that gun will get through. From any angle. And PzII... yeah, you should have a chance against that 20mm AP round. But you really don't. Even that will kill your tank before you even know you are being shot at, more often than not. I won't belabor the fact US, German and Russian (also maybe British?) can bounce your shots, even though you cannot bounce theirs. Git gud, right? French are AMBUSHERS! (the mantra when it comes to underpowered ground vehicles)
After that is R.39 at BR 1.7 right? Well, that looks good on paper and doesn't get bad until you notice how long it takes to reload. 10 seconds! Why? The AMX right next to it in the tree has the same 47mm gun, fires the same AP ammo, and has the same 3 crew members. Yet, that gets a 4 second reload? Why, because it has other disadvantages and didn't need to have a ridiculously long reload nerf applied? Anyway, that long reload will get you killed. Even when you successfully play your role as an "ambush tank" and get the drop on somebody, your AP is unlikely to cripple it (don't even fantacize about a one-shot) and your victim will probably return fire and one-shot you before you reload.
Next up, SaU 40. This is actually a good vehicle. It's the only French tank I have a positive kill/death ratio with. The gun gets the job done, and it's nimble enough and low profile enough you aren't just a sitting duck with it. I don't think it's as good as the BR 2.3 Stug, but it's serviceable at least.
Next up, B1 bis. I assume this is the heavy you were talking about? You can have good matches in this. Especially if you bind the hull gun to a separate control and get used to playing as if you are both a TD and a tank at the same time. A few times I've been in the middle of the street when a gang of lowbie tanks came around the corner, and was able to take out one with the hull gun while aiming at another with the turret gun (which rarely one shots but it does do damage). But all it takes is one person who knows about the weak on the front side, under the turret. This is the size of a kitchen window and isn't that hard to hit. Or the weakspot on the left rear, which is the size of a barn door. A few days ago I two-shotted a B1 bis with the 3.0 Cromwell's 75mm (which is an underperforming gun). Last month while I was grinding Frenchies, I took out British a few times for a decal task, and with a Mathilda's 40mm AP (even more underwhelming than Cromwell 75mm AP) I took out 2x B1 bis (they were traveling together) from the front, shooting at that frontal weakspot. Granted, I was only able to do that because I knew about it (after getting killed a lot in my own B1 bis) - but a lot of people seem to know about B1 bis vulnerabilities. But, yeah. If you get lucky in regards to opponents, you can have fun and do well with B1 bis.
I just unlocked m4a1 and m10, before I set French line temporarily aside. I know those are good, because they are good in the US line, and the French line has exact clones of them. Same with the Jumbo. Especially the Jumbo, really. That's hard to beat at 4.7 and does OK even when uptiered. I don't know about the French tanks at higher BR that have a custom gun on a Sherman chassis, but I'm guessing they have the same problem Sherman 76s have: they can be one-shot easily by most opponents they face at that BR, but struggle to one-shot in return. So, guess what? Sherman 76 is an AMBUSHER. Right? ;)
Dunno, maybe they did it better with French than they did with Sherman 76. My Jumbos don't often die to French tanks though. They die to Tiger (#1 offender) to anything with Soviet 85mm (#2 offender) to anything with the uber German 75mm (#3 offender) and to me being dumb and being ambushed by an AMBUSHER, who shoots through my lower side armor, which is the same as any other Sherman's. Oh, and also, me being dumb and overextending and not noticing there are enemy vehicles on 3 sides of me until it is too late to do anything about it. #4 and #5 offenders.
Anyway, sorry for the long ranty reply, but it bothered me a lot how arbitrarily underpowered these were, when I was playing them last month. If Gaijin wants to be realistic about how crappy some early war vehicles were, shouldn't they start with Russian tanks, prior to T-34? Not exactly game-changrs, were they? And early war PzII PzIII and PzIV were all undergunned and underarmored, weren't they? Bleh. The devs will do what the devs will do.
"However, a concurrent French counterattack in Flavion, Belgium better illustrates how the near-impenetrable armor, superior firepower and bravery and determination of the French tankers could not makeup for failures in logistics and combined-arms coordination.
On May 15, the 62 Char B1s and 80 H39 light tanks of the 1st DCR rolled forward to block the advance of more than 546 tanks of the 5th and 7th Panzer Divisions, the latter commanded by Erwin Rommel. The lopsided numbers were typical of the German superiority at concentrating their armored forces to decisive effect.
The B1s deployed to battle at 8:00 A.M. short on fuel, many of their supply trucks already lost due to air attacks. Just 26 tanks of the 28th BCC rolled forward to block the 7th’s path. Four had already broken down. From atop a hill, they began picking off swarming Panzer IV and 38t tanks. The German armor charged, closing within 100 meters, only to be scourged by 47- and 75-millimeter shells. Sousse took out seven tanks, Phillipeville six and other tanks averaging three each. In return, only a single B1 was knocked out and another damaged. The Panzers retreated."
"Rommel then committed a Panzer regiment to a flanking attack which was countered by a company of B1s—some of which ran out of fuel in the process, forcing them to manually rotate their turrets. Three immobilized B1s were swarmed by a dozen German tanks each, their armor scoured by small-caliber shells until the crews were forced to bail. But the German probe turned back.
Rommel then called in artillery and dive-bomber strikes on the hill. His Panzer IVs had exhausted their 75-millimeter shells to little effect on the B1s’ heavy armor.
Around noon, the 37th BCC dispatched its 2nd company to roll to the assistance of the 28th, but fuel shortages and mechanical breakdowns reduced the unit to only five running tanks when they were ambushed by anti-tank guns and 30 Panzer IIIs and IVs hiding in the Biere l’Abbé woods. The vastly outnumbered heavy tanks took out 15 Panzers, but three B1s succumbed to the sheer weight of incoming fire. The remaining Guynemere, Ourcq and Isere retreated, heavily damaged.
The other two companies of the 28th began to withdraw. While the 1st company got out cleanly, the 3rd bumped into a battalion of powerful 88-millimeter Flak guns and 105-millimeter howitzers near Denée. After losing all but seven of his B1s, Lehoux ordered his company to charge, even though he lacked infantry and artillery support. The heavy guns wiped out the French tanks—but not before the French crushed several 37-millimeter guns under their treads, and destroyed eight of the German flak and field pieces with direct fire.
Back at Flavion, the 37th BCC single-handedly continued to hold up an entire Panzer division. Growing desperate, Rommel deployed 88-millimeter flak guns a kilometer away. These begin picking off the fuel-starved French tanks, which could barely move to fire back with their hull-mounted howitzers. A final charge by the Panzers caused the signal to retreat to be sounded at 6:00 P.M. Between the lack of fuel, mechanical breakdowns and enemy fire, only three of the battalion’s B1s escaped."
"Though a battalion and a half of French tanks had knocked out roughly 100 Panzers, a failure to support their actions with artillery, infantry and air support meant the tankers’ sacrifice had been in vain.
Char B1s continued to see action into June 1940, frustrating German efforts at the local level. In five days, three B1s defending the bridges at Rethel knocked out 20 German tanks, nine armored cars and 38 motor vehicles. Legendary general Heinz Guderian even notes the hassle a lone Char B1 caused in his memoir Panzer Leader: “All the shells I fired at it simply bounced harmlessly off its thick armor. … As a result, we inevitably suffered sadly heavy casualties.”
The B1 was good in the same sense the Tiger 2 was. When it worked and when it was engaged in combat. Usually it didn't get this far.
All the french lights were bad vehicles with the exception of the AMC 35, which actually had a 2-man turret. However they only had a very small number (less than a hundred I believe) of them.
The Somua was alright aswell with some flaws, but they were also in the minority.
So aside from saying the B1 had heavy armour what else do you have on your side? Because you can't justify to me that the Hotchkiss' and Renault's were good vehicles.
Lets pick a axis tank... object 120, it has super op ammo that can pierce anything within a 6km radius, now lets compair it to the m46 tiger, cant pierce with heatfs, you have to aim perfectly on the weakest spots or it bounces or it deals 0 damage.
Usa bombers "too op" i fly my do 335 b 2 and just 1 hit all bombers be it pb4y's or b29 1 hit and its gone.
If object 120 has its "advanced rounds" dont you think the usa planes need there advanced targeting systems? should be fair then since the object got his advanced rounds
why do you keep bringing up tanks that i never even mentioned????
if had armor that no german tank could reliably penetrate,and a 47mm gun that could penetrate ANY german tank in the field back then, and a 75mm howitzer,that could equally deal with ANY german threat,and do it reliably.
The howitzer couldn't engage anything reliably. Why? Because it had no horizontal traverse unlike in Warthunder. None. The entire hull had to be rotated to make use of it. That made it very unreliable and not all that useful defensively.
I keep bringing up other tanks because we're speaking of French armour and the B1 did not make up all French armour. It wasn't even the majority of French armour. That's like saying PZ2's made up all german armour they had to face.
http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/france/Renault_R-35.php
This is the what made up the bulk of French armour along with Hotchkiss', the majority of which still mounted the 37mm Puteaux cannon mounted on the Renault FT in WW1. This was most of their armour and it's a downright terrible tank with nearly no redeeming features.
The vast majority of French tanks struggled to penetrate even 30mm armour but without any of the benefits of crew performance or communication that was prevalent in german armour from the start of the war. The Puteaux cannon was mostly just useful for firing weak HE. The longer guns were rare and only a small minority of primarily Hotchkiss vehicles were upgraded with it. That too struggled to deal with 30mm of frontal armour.
But the B1 and Somua together make up roughly 500 vehicles in a pool of thousands of armoured vehicles in the French army. They are in the vast minority and as I keep repeating, armour was the only redeeming feature the B1 had, though I want to remember reliability was decent when it wasn't running out of fuel. Somua also had the problem of running out of fuel as I think it used different fuel to other French vehicles, constantly causing resupply issues.
These are not features you want in tanks. This is the downfall of a tank design. War is won by logistics, not armour thickness and this is what I base a good design on. Like the Tiger 2 it's only good within the realms of games where these are problems you don't have to consider.
You want to see a good tank design for the time, you'd be better off turning to the Matilda. It offered everything the B1 offered and more without all the fatal flaws. Now THAT was a tank german armour was basically incapable of penetrating except possibly from the rear.