CELEBRATION! Lorraine 40t is officially the most expensive tank to fix in War Thunder!

[Kwoh]

Finally the good almighty Lorraine 40t, a tank that totally dont get its breach taken out by a hit in the engine!
That has the slowest auto loader resuplier time, falling way behind the T114 even tho that tank got two crew members and the Lorraine has an dedicated loader!
We should congratulate Gaijin for making this "ok" tank tops 18,240SL (STOCK !) to repair! Only falling behind the E-100. A price tag of a outstanding tank!
If prices translate to reward in eyes of the DEVs then this is the single greatest tank of all time right? Right?

[Trexler ♤]

of course ;)

[Sobolewski]

Originally posted by Mirage:

I mean it runs a k/d of 3.5 or something, or 4.5 in sim as it's an extremely meta vehicle that sits at the perfect BR.
I doubt you can find any non-meme vehicle that performs better than a 3.5, only the American T series tanks that are broken and OP as ♥♥♥♥ that no one wants to admit because it's not German and everything American is free of criticism would come close I imagine.

Comparing it to the E-100 is kinda silly as it's not a relevant vehicle in any way.

Much broken, really. A few milimiters more armor on the mantlet than a Tiger II H, over 10 kph less top speed, 50 milimiters less UFP armor and a bit less slope, much weaker LFP, and 20-50mm more pen in exchange for twice the reload time and, in the T34's case, no APHE. So broken and OP, right?

And, to top if off, you seem to be laughing at other people's misery by insinuating a tank deserves an absurd repair cost just because of it's K/D ratio on an innaccurate website.
What a joke.

[Sobolewski]

Originally posted by Mirage:

Have you seen the performance stats of these T series tanks? T20, T25, T29, T30, T32, T34.. they all have k/ds from 2 to 5, winrate from 60 to 80.. if it was just one of them.. sure, but they're all around the same BR region and theyre stomping the ever living ♥♥♥♥ out of them.. but it's American so it's cool.. #freeaboolife.
Just cite some random stat card info that you perceive as valid and ignore the actual performance of a tank because that fits your narrative better.

According to what? Your flawed Thunderskill that I and others already refuted in other threads many a times? The sample is too low to be worth anything in accuracy. Better use actual data from the tanks, extracted from statcards, in-game armor analysis, datamining and in-game testing. Those don't change overnight due to fluctuations in player behavior. And they mean almost everything. Or do you honestly believe an M26 Pershing and a Tiger II P are on equal terms because they stand on the same BR? Or that the Pershing is superior because it has better K/D winrate?

You cling onto Thunderskill no matter how discredited it gets by actual logic and even the pointing of cases where it shows data that isn't even possible ( a tank having a K/D of 1.0ish and over 3.5 kills per match on average, for example) don't seem to dissuade you. Probably because the true facts that can't be cherry picked, manipulated by events within the playerbase or changed overnight scare you and you need to cling to your lie that the playerbase homogeneously plays every tech tree at every BR, always using the best suited strategies for each tank they play with homogeneous skill levels between all factions, so the tank and the maps are the only factor influencing winrates and K/D rates.

Originally posted by Mirage:

And what misery are we talking about.. being able to dominate games in the Lorraine 40t is misery? On average fighting 6.7 Germany is misery? Having the single best Sim vehicle at that tier is misery? You can play a sim game right now in it, and you'll fight Tiger lls in it, Ferdinands, Panthers.. highest BR you can run into is the Japanese Ho-Ri Production.. yeah the one true nemesis of the Lorraine huh.. pure misery.. and that has a repaircost of over 22k for me and it's not even spaded yet, whilst being in a much worse situation than the Lorraine in terms of meta.

Having to get 10 kills in a game and NOT DIE in order to break even for a death is miserable indeed. Your assumption on uptier/downtiers is also flawed, you don't even have any of your precious "data collected from 1000s of players" to back it up. Simulator excepted, because that one doesn't work on +1/-1 BR logic. And one tank's misery is no excuse for another one's.

Originally posted by Mirage:

The best part however is how you choose to ignore the other topic about repaircosts on the frontpage where I state several times that repaircosts are ridiculous, make no sense and should be removed entirely as well as SL, and you can find me saying the same thing dozens of times on these forums recently as well as years ago, but ofcourse that doesn't make for a good story from your side of things.

I honestly didn't read that thread until a while ago when I saw your response. Yet what you said here in this thread had a very clear "that's what you deserve" tone to it, so I jumped on it. I have no obligation to be omnipresent and omniscient on the forums, and you spoke like a true jerk, so I obviously wouldn't miss the chance to take a jab at you.

What a prick.

[Kwoh]

Originally posted by Mirage:

Have you seen the performance stats of these T series tanks? T20, T25, T29, T30, T32, T34.. they all have k/ds from 2 to 5, winrate from 60 to 80.. if it was just one of them.. sure, but they're all around the same BR region and theyre stomping the ever living ♥♥♥♥ out of them.. but it's American so it's cool.. #freeaboolife.
Just cite some random stat card info that you perceive as valid and ignore the actual performance of a tank because that fits your narrative better.

And what misery are we talking about.. being able to dominate games in the Lorraine 40t is misery? On average fighting 6.7 Germany is misery? Having the single best Sim vehicle at that tier is misery? You can play a sim game right now in it, and you'll fight Tiger lls in it, Ferdinands, Panthers.. highest BR you can run into is the Japanese Ho-Ri Production.. yeah the one true nemesis of the Lorraine huh.. pure misery.. and that has a repaircost of over 22k for me and it's not even spaded yet, whilst being in a much worse situation than the Lorraine in terms of meta.

The best part however is how you choose to ignore the other topic about repaircosts on the frontpage where I state several times that repaircosts are ridiculous, make no sense and should be removed entirely as well as SL, and you can find me saying the same thing dozens of times on these forums recently as well as years ago, but ofcourse that doesn't make for a good story from your side of things.

Yo Mirage, do you consider that, if you compare the KD IN THE WHOLE GAME COMMUNITY with the T-34-85 to, let's say, an Archer, it woud be unfair right?
Because you see, people skip the Archer, people dont play the Archer, but people do play a lot of the T-34-85
You know that, as more people play a tank, as more inacurate the KD will be right? Cuz then you will have a KD of a bunch of dumbasses combined with some pro players.
Some unpopular tanks are indeed played by people who really like to play with them and do well.
A KD of 3, is meaning you kill 3 tanks per life, in that case, the 3 tanks you killed dont even ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ pay for the repair cost after you die.

Using the KD of the community is totally useless in the argument of the repair cost.

I usually get around 5 kills with the M18, less or more, before dying.
Some stupid ass dude caps and rushes to their spawn and instantly dies.
The KD will be the same for both of us.
How you wanna argue with those 2 situations?

I rarely see someone with an AMX-50 or Lorraine, even more compared to the metric ton of people play the Tiger II. There are good Tiger II players, there are the bad ones, because there is a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ lot of them. And the few who play the Lorraine the website has way less data to work with, and they usually know how to play. I can get easy 5 kills even with the AMX-50 that don't get the speed. But that dont ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ mean that the AutoLoader resuplier is good, or getting very few or even loosing SL because of nonsense that made your tank cost close to 20k when aced is correct. As you were allucinating after this comment, ive never said its a bad tank, It's not a bad tank as I SAID IN THE POST it is an OK tank that dont deserve the high repair costs. Even more after the DEV said the higher the reward is, the higher repair cost, which in the Lorraine case, its totally ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.
Take a look at the RU251, that ♥♥♥♥ is a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ high reward tank, one of the best in rewards ive ever seen...... not even close to the Lorraine repair cost.

It gives less reward than an Ru, having the highest repair cost in the game, thank you.

[Col. Cornbread]

Originally posted by k w o h:

Yo Mirage, do you consider that, if you compare the KD IN THE WHOLE GAME COMMUNITY with the T-34-85 to, let's say, an Archer, it woud be unfair right?
Because you see, people skip the Archer, people dont play the Archer, but people do play a lot of the T-34-85
You know that, as more people play a tank, as more inacurate the KD will be right? Cuz then you will have a KD of a bunch of dumbasses combined with some pro players.
Some unpopular tanks are indeed played by people who really like to play with them and do well.
A KD of 3, is meaning you kill 3 tanks per life, in that case, the 3 tanks you killed dont even ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ pay for the repair cost after you die.

Using the KD of the community is totally useless in the argument of the repair cost.

I usually get around 5 kills with the M18, less or more, before dying.
Some stupid ass dude caps and rushes to their spawn and instantly dies.
The KD will be the same for both of us.
How you wanna argue with those 2 situations?

.... that's how averages work and that's what we want to compare. It doesn't make them inaccurate it makes them more accurate.

[Kwoh]

Originally posted by Col. Cornbread:

Originally posted by k w o h:

Yo Mirage, do you consider that, if you compare the KD IN THE WHOLE GAME COMMUNITY with the T-34-85 to, let's say, an Archer, it woud be unfair right?
Because you see, people skip the Archer, people dont play the Archer, but people do play a lot of the T-34-85
You know that, as more people play a tank, as more inacurate the KD will be right? Cuz then you will have a KD of a bunch of dumbasses combined with some pro players.
Some unpopular tanks are indeed played by people who really like to play with them and do well.
A KD of 3, is meaning you kill 3 tanks per life, in that case, the 3 tanks you killed dont even ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ pay for the repair cost after you die.

Using the KD of the community is totally useless in the argument of the repair cost.

I usually get around 5 kills with the M18, less or more, before dying.
Some stupid ass dude caps and rushes to their spawn and instantly dies.
The KD will be the same for both of us.
How you wanna argue with those 2 situations?

.... that's how averages work and that's what we want to compare. It doesn't make them inaccurate it makes them more accurate.

no because we dealing with different types of players. You can't put a high price ticket to average because of the pro players performance. They are distinct in the variety of player usage. A tank that no one uses is self explanatory that this price thing is not working.

[Kwoh]

Originally posted by Mirage:

Originally posted by k w o h:

Yo Mirage, do you consider that, if you compare the KD IN THE WHOLE GAME COMMUNITY with the T-34-85 to, let's say, an Archer, it woud be unfair right?
Because you see, people skip the Archer, people dont play the Archer, but people do play a lot of the T-34-85
You know that, as more people play a tank, as more inacurate the KD will be right? Cuz then you will have a KD of a bunch of dumbasses combined with some pro players.
Some unpopular tanks are indeed played by people who really like to play with them and do well.
A KD of 3, is meaning you kill 3 tanks per life, in that case, the 3 tanks you killed dont even ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ pay for the repair cost after you die.

Using the KD of the community is totally useless in the argument of the repair cost.

I usually get around 5 kills with the M18, less or more, before dying.
Some stupid ass dude caps and rushes to their spawn and instantly dies.
The KD will be the same for both of us.
How you wanna argue with those 2 situations?

Those things are clearly shown with the stats:
T-34-85 has 6000 matches logged and a k/d of 1.7 and a 40% winrate
Archer has only 44 matches logged and a k/d of 2 with a 80% winrate

Not sure what you mean by unfair, or what you mean by more players making it inaccurate.
Having a bunch of dumbasses combined with pro players is exactly what average is about, the more people that play a tank, the more accurate the statistics will become as it will rule out the outliers. If you ask 10 people a yes or no question, the outcome can be entirely different as when you ask a 1000 people, but when you ask another 1000 people it's more likely to remain similar.

The T-34-85 has a lot of games played and it shows that it's a competitive tank that can get kills, but the winrate shows that there are things going on that prevents it from winning, which is something you have to determine by looking at the factors in play, such as lineups and matchmaking.

The Archer has only 44 games, that is way to few to be representative of it's performance, a few people could make up 44 games and in this case you can't really draw conclusions from that, it shows there is potential atleast, it has great firepower but you gotta know how to use it.
It's winrate seems really good, which could suggest that 3.3 is a really good BR for the UK, but if you take into consideration the other British vehicles around that BR they don't reflect that, so in this instance I would dismiss the winrate of the Archer and call it an outlier.

That's the whole problem with repaircost as well, fewer players means less accurate information, by making the Lorraine more expensive it will get fewer players using it, which can cause it to become and outlier and get used by pro players, further skewing the stats.

An extreme example is the mentioned E-100, it has an insane k/d of 7 and a winrate of 75%.
Compare it to the Maus that doesn't even get half the k/d and a 40% winrate.
The E-100 is a small improvement over the Maus but not enough to explain the difference in performance.. instead it's because the E-100 is extremely rare, and primarily used by veteran players.

To a lesser degree you can explain the difference with tanks and their premium counterpart.. on average a premium tank will outperform their tech tree brother even when they're exact copies, Tiger ll H Sla.16 has a k/d of 2.33 and a winrate of 52%.. whilst the regular Tiger ll H has 2.13 and a winrate of 43%.. premium has some minor improvements but again it's not what makes up the difference.

"[...] fewer players means less accurate information, by making the Lorraine more expensive it will get fewer players using it, which can cause it to become and outlier and get used by pro players, further skewing the stats."

MF thats the whole reason the KD shouldnt be used, the site you are using is even discontinuated, other tanks have a KD of three and they are not the same price as the Lorraine.
This dont make any sense. As I said, no one playing a tank because of the price is a sign on yo ass saying "this doesnt work"

[Kwoh]

Originally posted by Mirage:

Originally posted by k w o h:

I rarely see someone with an AMX-50 or Lorraine, even more compared to the metric ton of people play the Tiger II. There are good Tiger II players, there are the bad ones, because there is a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ lot of them. And the few who play the Lorraine the website has way less data to work with, and they usually know how to play. I can get easy 5 kills even with the AMX-50 that don't get the speed. But that dont ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ mean that the AutoLoader resuplier is good, or getting very few or even loosing SL because of nonsense that made your tank cost close to 20k when aced is correct.

Lorraine is played quite a lot as far as French tanks go, similar to a Tiger ll P, Panther D.. Tiger H1 isn't played that much more either all in all.
And I agree to a point, like I said a higher repaircost is just a bad idea as it will probably just increase the stats, which will make Gaijin further increase the repaircosts and it's a dumb cycle.

Still in this case the Lorraine isn't extremely rare it's in the top 5 of French most played tanks and it's not the same situation as the E-100 or anything.. and you can look at the stats, the meta and the BR and still say that the Lorraine is a good vehicle that isn't just being pushed by pro players, but repaircost will eventually start doing that more.

K/d shouldn't be used to determine repaircost surely, but it's still just a stat that has other relevance.
Again I don't support repaircosts and it shouldn't exist or be equallized across the board so all tanks just have a set value at the same BR.

Ho-ri production is similar, and it's used a lot less as it has a 20-25k repaircost that used to be less than 10k like 6 months ago.. the stats will continue to rise and as will the repaircost, but it's not a bad vehicle either way, nor is the Lorraine.

Ho Ri production is cheaper than the Lorraine. That tank is an absolute bunker with an good gun for it's class, with an wonderful speed. It's the Ferdinand on steroids, comparing both Ferdinand and the Ho Ri, you can see why the Ho Ri is more expensive, Ho Ri is a beast and the Lorraine is ok, but the lorraine menages to be more expensive than the Ho Ri. This don't make any sense. If the Ho Ri would be 20k, 25k, i would pick that tank up all day over the Lorraine, and I dont even play japanese tanks as much as I play the French

[Sedition]

The Ostwind II, a compensation for the removed tanks, in AB went from 2k to 14k. Complete madness.

[Kwoh]

Originally posted by Sedition:

The Ostwind II, a compensation for the removed tanks, in AB went from 2k to 14k. Complete madness.

yo wtf i didnt even see that what the hell is this why

[Jan Zizka of Trocnov]

It's the ugly cycle. Gaijin balances repair costs based on performance. The higher the repair the better you have to be to play it effectively. Price gets raised more because only elite people play it. Rinse and repeat.

[burg4401]

Originally posted by Mirage:

Gaijin thinkin the Ostwind ll was compensation for anything was madness enough, it's no improvement over the regular Ostwind without alternating fire and certainly isnt justified to have a full BR increase.
I'd rather have them fix the Kugelblitz after 5 years of people complaining about it.

kugeblitz, it was once really good when I first started playing, after so many nerfs it is what we have today.
now I can't hit crap in it.
I didn't even see it changing, it happened while I was grinding other tech trees.

[Rogue Cloud]

Id rather play the Lorraine 40t if it's br was raised to 7.7 or even 8.0 if it means that I don't have to pay 18k whenever I die in it.

[Nak]

Bringing out the Lorraine, AMX 50, and Char 25 was an easy 54k+ in repair costs for a realistic battle. Why my French grind has slowed waaaaaay down.

[Kwoh]

Originally posted by Traianus:

Bringing out the Lorraine, AMX 50, and Char 25 was an easy 54k+ in repair costs for a realistic battle. Why my French grind has slowed waaaaaay down.

if you bring backup like the M4 and the AMX 13
You are looking near a 80k repair.