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The ru 251 isnt op at all
so do us all a favour and close this thread, you aint gonna make anyone believe its op [/quote]
The only tanks that were really OP was the IT-1 after release and maybe the IS6, for anything else it´s just the question if the BR is allright.
Normally you get a good gun in a TD first (like SU 85 - T34 85), but in the german tree there are two exceptions: Pz. VI F2 vs. Stug III F and RU251 vs. JPZ 4-5
http://thunderskill.com/en/vehicle/germ_ru251
Keep raging and thinking you're correct. And afaik swearing at people and calling them names is bannable, I've received warnings for far less than that before.
I don't need to read. The PT-76b is still one of the fastest tanks in its bracket, has a stabilizer, its amphibious, the heat-fs works on higher tiers (like the 251), the RU251 can face 20mm cannons from French tanks and it only has 10mm of roof armor which can be penned by ground target 50 cals from 1000m away.
Also the 251 has a gap in the turret where 50cals can pen and kill the gunner and commander fairly easily at decent ranges, though why you'd be silly enough not to just shoot it with the cannon is anyone's guess.
So what if 4 brackets higher it does things better, that's what I expect, because it is a superior light tank, at a higher BR.
Phly says a LOT of things are op, its became a running joke.
Also Phly is a fairly mediocre player, despite being a top-tier youtuber who's basically paid to play.
Not saying I'm anything special either though.
The 251 heat-fs is pretty pathetic in that regard.
The way you discribed the Le vs RU though, the way you talked about it actually seemed to solidify it’s 6.7 BR even more, it shouldn’t be raised beyond 7.0 max. It’s gun is the same except that it is less powerful and takes longer to reload, without access to APDS (but smoke), while I believe the Leopard 1 gets smoke grenades instead. The RU-251 can still fight with Leos in full uptier, and is about the same mobility wise on non-hard terrain, but with better acceleration (which keep in mind, this is a light tank with it’s main advantage being speed, you’re comparing it to a medium tank/Main Battle Tank that has poor but occationally trollish armor and a 105mm gun of mass destruction with a quick reload). (Also side note regarding Leo 1, is it spaded? Because that will effect results, as the RU-251 is automatically spaded as a premium).
Another tank that can be compared to the RU-251 closer to it’s BR - the Russian premium, T-44-122.
T-44-122: fast but not as fast as the RU, but has about 41kmh on soft terrain like on kusk. Less reverse speed but still decent.
Has 122mm gun, which has about 100nm less penetration but instantly obliterates opponents with APHE shell that has 250+ some kg of explosive mass, trading penetration for shear damage, although the 122mm does take about 2.5 times longer to reload. The RU has 30mm of armor, the T-44 has 75mm, as well as good turret armor as well. I overal consider the T-44-122 a better tank, as it has good frontal armor that is trollish at times because of angling, a slow but extremely powerful 122mm gun, excellent mobility that is superior than many light tanks even, only outmatch by the RU-251, but even then it isn’t that much even.
Basically T-44-122 has better armor, better damaging 1 hit almost always gun, can actually shoot through solid objects; while the RU-251 has better penetrating HEAT-FS, smoke shells, and better reload; and when it comes to speed, the RU wins but actually by not that much - it out accelerates forwards and backwards, and has better top speed, but it doesn’t have that better of top speed comparing it to a ww2 medium tank. I actually personally consider the T-44-122 better, although that is my opinion.
The RU-251 is 6.7, the T-44-122 is 6.3.
Yeah, but you know why the Super Hellcat is 6.3 right? The ammo.
Solid shot and APHE perform great in the current meta, pretty much the two best ammo types alongside apfsds.
http://thunderskill.com/en/vehicle/us_m18_super_hellcat
As scummy as thunderskill is, and I hate to bring it up in balancing arguments, the performance is clearly not what you're making it out to be.
Its like the Leo 2a4 owners crying about the "T64-b" being overpowered, ignoring the 38-42% winrate and poor overall performance, its baseless. :/
To lolpen every heavy tank that relies on armor?
Seems balanced :)
IMO the post pen of the PT76 as well as the T92 is non existant, while the 90mm has at least a little bit. Don´t forget that the M46, M47, M48 STA-1 & 2 and the Typ 61 use the same gun with the same ammo.
The M46 is 7,0, save from mg rounds, but don´t have relevant armor. Same goes for the M47 (7,3) and the M48 (7,7). All these tanks can and will get killed by SPAA, so what justifies the BR of the RU?
That he can get killed by 50 cals?
I also see very much people use the RU as a backup for the Leo (most likely because it is aside from the Leo and the 4-5 the only tank at that BR which can take on the IS7)
So to argue against the Ru251 you bring up the Patton, a tank that's arguably superior in almost every aspect, one that can sit hull down and reliably bounce shells, has access to ballistic capped shells and solid shot. (which as I've said before, matter more than heat-fs in the current meta, 1 shot over 2-3 shot kills with the occasional lucky 1 shot)
And then you also bring up the M47, one that has a rangefinder; which is an obvious advantage in top tier.
Are you sure you're even using these tanks properly before you compare it to a dedicated flanker, with poor optics (251)?
Those tanks are decent in hull down positions at long range sniping, stop comparing stuff you clearly don't know much about.
The T92 is an absolute hull-down troll tank, its barely visible at all behind hills, and this compensates it massively.
The only "benefit" to the 251 gun that you guys mention all the time is its pen, which matters not if you use it for what its designed for anyway, FLANKING. In which almost every tank that you've suggested does a better job of side shot killing.
The Object 906 and the Object 120 perform decently at 10.0.
Does that mean they should be 10.0?
I think not.
So to argue against the Ru251 you bring up the Patton, a tank that's arguably superior in almost every aspect, one that can sit hull down and reliably bounce shells, has access to ballistic capped shells and solid shot. (which as I've said before, matter more than heat-fs in the current meta, 1 shot over 2-3 shot kills with the occasional lucky 1 shot)
And then you also bring up the M47, one that has a rangefinder; which is an obvious advantage in top tier.
Are you sure you're even using these tanks properly before you compare it to a dedicated flanker, with poor optics (251)?
Those tanks are decent in hull down positions at long range sniping, stop comparing stuff you clearly don't know much about.
The T92 is an absolute hull-down troll tank, its barely visible at all behind hills, and this compensates it massively.
The only "benefit" to the 251 gun that you guys mention all the time is its pen, which matters not if you use it for what its designed for anyway, FLANKING. In which almost every tank that you've suggested does a better job of side shot killing. [/quote]
In which regard are the Pattons superior to the RU while they have the same gun with way less mobility?
Hull down with 101mm turret armor doesn´t make sense. A good hull down tank would be the chieftains, because they have a turret that can take/bounce shots.
I´ve gone into 2 testdrives to compare the "bad" optics from the RU with the ones on the M46 and I can tell you that they seem pretty equal to me.
You are right for the capped shells, but to use them you HAVE TO flank. With HEAT FS you don´t . + most of the time it makes no difference if you have to shoot your enemy twice, because the first hit kills his loader/breech if you aim half way correct.
A rangefinder is just a help on big maps. Most of the time you fight 400 - 600 m in War thunder, except Tier 6, Maginot or Kursk and even there you can go close quaters, be it in woods or cities. Also if you have experience you can guess the range pretty well.
The T92 is a nice little tank and sometimes trolly, but also it´s gun is very small for 6,7 with 200 mm of pen and litterly no post pen damage.
As for the part that I don´t know what I´m talking about:
I currently have over 4600 hours playtime in War Thunder, I just miss 11 tanks out of ALL nations, and spade all tanks except rank 6. So I think I know very exactly what I´m talking about. How about you?
It is also very comparable to the RU, even if it is better in most regards - that´s why it has a higher BR.
But honestly: do you think the RU would perform bad at the 7,7 - 8,0 black hole?
I don´t think so. It´s the best backup at 7,7 german teams can bring after their Leo gets destroyed - especialy against the IS7, which makes almost any AP/APHE obsolete.