Italian R3 T20 - WRONG RANK!

[ComStar repairman]

What is Gaijin thinking by putting the R3 T20 as a Rank II vehicle. This is clearly a post WW2 vehicle that is far too powerful going up against similar WW2 vehicles of other countries. Seriously frustrating!! Please FIX!

[Der Lachende Mann]

Publicado originalmente por Capt. Stransky:

What is Gaijin thinking by putting the R3 T20 as a Rank II vehicle. This is clearly a post WW2 vehicle that is far too powerful going up against similar WW2 vehicles of other countries. Seriously frustrating!! Please FIX!

Some random private profile with a grand total of 3 posts over the last 2 years rambles about the rank of the R3 T20 and kicks off a major discussion about it's BR.

OP, I got good news, rank doesn't affect matchmaking in any way whatsoever, it could be rank 1 or 6, as long as it's BR 3.3 it's just about the same (though wagers and tasks may actually be affected by rank).

Though I somewhat doubt OP will be back.

[CT center]

german spaa at 3.7 has 65mm pen-
nobody bats an eye
italian spaa at 3.3 has 40mm pen-
WTF GAIJIN STOP BROKEN PLZ BUFF

[Dakota]

Publicado originalmente por CT center:

german spaa at 3.7 has 65mm pen-
nobody bats an eye
italian spaa at 3.3 has 40mm pen-
WTF GAIJIN STOP BROKEN PLZ BUFF

Considering no one here is arguing about the pen, that seems rather irrelevant, also its not like everyone agrees already that the wirbel is busted OP for its BR.

[CT center]

Publicado originalmente por Dakota:

Publicado originalmente por CT center:

german spaa at 3.7 has 65mm pen-
nobody bats an eye
italian spaa at 3.3 has 40mm pen-
WTF GAIJIN STOP BROKEN PLZ BUFF

Considering no one here is arguing about the pen, that seems rather irrelevant, also its not like everyone agrees already that the wirbel is busted OP for its BR.

ive seen more complain about the italian one being too low than people complaining that th german spaa is too low

[ComStar repairman]

My gripe is that WW2 vehicles (and their technology) should be pitted against other WW2 vehicles.

[saymyname]

Publicado originalmente por Capt. Stransky:

What is Gaijin thinking by putting every single 6.3 and 6.7 US and USSR vehicle against ww2 vehicles. This is clearly a post WW2 vehicle that is far too powerful going up against similar WW2 vehicles of Germany . Seriously frustrating!! Please FIX!

[Obamenau]

Publicado originalmente por Capt. Stransky:

My gripe is that WW2 vehicles (and their technology) should be pitted against other WW2 vehicles.

I hope you like fighting nothing but IS-3s and IS-4s in your tiger IIs.

Also way ruin Britain, Japans, France and Italys tier 4-5.
Yeah thats definetly worth it. the only nation that matters is germany after alll.

[saymyname]

Publicado originalmente por Mindstream:

Publicado originalmente por Capt. Stransky:

My gripe is that WW2 vehicles (and their technology) should be pitted against other WW2 vehicles.

I hope you like fighting nothing but IS-3s and IS-4s in your tiger IIs.

Also way ruin Britain, Japans, France and Italys tier 4-5.
Yeah thats definetly worth it. the only nation that matters is germany after alll.

Only IS-3 was made during ww2 (and btw, King Tiger DO FACE lots of IS3)

It has been several threads in a row with this "ww2 IS's" that is complete crap. Writing some official defense papers to start a project doesn't change that any IS post 3 was tested in its prototype form beyond 1946 or even in full cold war like IS6.

[Pinky the Clown]

It's not necessarily that it's good against the tanks it faces. It's better than it has any business being, but more on that later. Bear with me.

My issue with the R3: The M56 Scorpion.

The Scorpion has a completely unprotected crew. There's no armored glass or structural steel or sloped armor to split hairs about how much protection it really provides, since it's 3 dudes in a tight cluster on a go-kart. A quiet sneeze murders the Scorpion. Its default ammo is garbage. With enough grinding, it has access to HESH and HEAT-FS, but it is a MISERABLE grind. And in the end, it's just 90mm. It's a horrible vehicle that, with enough effort, can become a marginally acceptable sniper.

It has a BR of 6.7.

The R3 has a BR of 3.3.

Now, the thing about the R3 is that it's an SPAA vehicle, and it's very good at being that. It'll shatter just about any plane it sees with a quick burst. Better still, it's tiny, so it's hard to spot. Flying against it, your only warning will likely be incoming tracers, all too late. So. It's good at its job. That's fine.

The problem is that it's so insanely quick and maneuverable, and tiny, it's also pretty damn effective against tanks in a pinch. This is because it only has to get a little lucky peppering the entire body of an enemy tank at close range to gain the upper hand. Jam a turret and/or kill the tank commander through sheer HE spam, and not only have you defended yourself from an enemy tank, you are now ready to kill it by spamming its sides to death.

For a low-tier tank to win against the R3, it's all about catching it with MG fire as the opportunity presents itself. But unlike the tracked Scorpion, the wheeled R3 can turn on a dime, and has 360 degrees of fairly speedy traverse for its weapon. I believe it also has a notably higher top speed. My point is, against other enemy ground vehicles, you have options besides surprise.

So, historical arguments along the lines of "does this vehicle belong in T2" aside (what even are tiers/eras supposed to be anymore), does it have any business having a BR of 3.3? Consider the kinds of enemies that can be thrown against it at that BR.

I don't think it has any business in T2 or at BR 3.3. It's an SPAA. Balance it accordingly. Not whether or not you think it's appropriate for it to have a fair fight against tanks in an urban capture point.

[kamikazi21358]

Publicado originalmente por Mindstream:

Publicado originalmente por Capt. Stransky:

My gripe is that WW2 vehicles (and their technology) should be pitted against other WW2 vehicles.

I hope you like fighting nothing but IS-3s and IS-4s in your tiger IIs.

Also way ruin Britain, Japans, France and Italys tier 4-5.
Yeah thats definetly worth it. the only nation that matters is germany after alll.

To be entirely fair, the IS-3 has Cold War ammunition in game, and would be ~Tiger II’s equal if released in 1945 before the European front closed.

[HebrewHammertime]

I blew one away with the jumbo. It’s a pea shooter

[Leo "Gamer" G]

While it's an obscenely OP vehicle in the AA role, I wouldn't mind seeing it at 1.0 and in every nation if it stops plane players

[Leo "Gamer" G]

Publicado originalmente por jake.rose3084:

I blew one away with the jumbo. It’s a pea shooter

Well anything is a pea shooter compared to the Jumbo, that thing is OP as hell

[Vi]

Publicado originalmente por AttackerCat:

AMX-13 FL11 is 3.3 and postwar too. It even has a proper shell and can use the US 75mm APHE shells.

R3 T20 is fine, it's no better than the italian x4 20mm SPAA that follows it.

From my same post on what is now 3 threads on this:

Sure there's frontal sloped armor... but the armored glass is 30mm thick but that does not equal 30mm of RHA. In fact it’s closer to .28 (or 28%) of the protection equivalent to the actual thickness value.
(Taken from the wiki)

Also it only has 40mm of pen at 10 meters, and drops into the 30s past that. You’re only a threat to other ground vehicles similar to a .50cal. At that point. The mighty Pz II has better pen.

The fire rate is amazing, but it’s an SPAA and has a lower RoF than the M14 with the quad 20mms (~990 rpm vs. 600rpmx4).

Exactly this, not to mention that 30mm sloped is aluminium and really only half that value in RHA. Just enough to keep out .50 cals frontally. And the sides being less than 7mm thick, most tanks coax light MG will go through it at close range and 50's at basically any engagement range. However it is far better than the following AA, the M14 is terrible compared to the wirbel, way open turret and less ammo per mag, alot harder to hit planes than the consistent and higher fire rate of the R3. That being said the R3 is a great addition and I reckon only fairly uptier it 3.7 so it doesnt eat allied light tanks alive so much, but then again the other German AA's already do at lower tiers. It's a great counter to allied CAS spam seeing as the only things else available to italy at that BR is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ garbage.

[Franss the Coffee Addict]

R3 should be 8.0 so it faces cold war ERA tanks.
I dont want to face cold war ERA vehicles in my Sherman REEEEEEEEEE