Opinion on low tier Italian tanks. Are they actually any good?

[Blunder Bro]

^

[Rei]

They're very fun to play if you ask me. 20mm autocannons with the same ammo as the Germans, the 47mm with 50mm+ of pen, and an APHE shell, and of course the CV.33, which, memes aside, is actually not too bad.

[saymyname]

Almost OP, especially the M series is very well armored while having very good guns.

I expect a br nerf along the line anytime soon snow so use them now IMHO

[Blunder Bro]

Some of the 1.3, 1.7 and 2.0 tanks on paper seem to have much higher BRs than they actually should.

Like the M14/41 at 1.7. A little extra horsepower for 1.7? Am I missing something that makes it so much better despite having a weak gun?

M11.39 at 1.3 has worse armour, worse shell pen, worse caliber, main gun isn't in the turret, slightly better speed and maneuverability than the reserve tanks, no capped upgraded shell. Am I missing something? I play arcade so having slightly better mobility doesn't help when the entire team knows where you are.

I tried to discuss the BR decisions for the Italian tree yesterday, but no replies. There are many tanks that I question the BRs for in the Italian tree. The 6.7 M26 only has slightly better shells than the 6.3 one, but at 6.7 it's shells and armour are sub-par when comparing the other 6.7s you will face. Also 7.7 uptiers are almost always gauranteed. Sure you have APCR that can pen over 200mm, but can you really rely on that?

Then you have the M36 sherman at 6.7 with a gun that isn't much better than the M36 at 6.3. The better hull armour of the sherman over the M36 hull isn't a good trade for less mobility and reverse speed as when is a sherman's armour ever going to stop a Tiger 2 shell at 6.7?

[Jan Zizka of Trocnov]

L3/33 CC best vehicle

[Illusionyary]

I'm going through trying to spade as many Italian tanks as I can so I'll offer my opinions on the ones I've spaded so far.

Rank Is.
20mm armed vehicles (AB41, L6/40, AS42) - Absolutely awful until you unlock the HVAP belts, then they become lethal.
Reserves - Good armour for 1.0, good guns, bad mobility.
M14/41 - Same as the reserve but now at 1.7... don't really see the point.
L3/33 CC - Good profile, good speed and good ROF, but the post penetration is awful and you have no armour.
M11/39 - Insane optics for some reason, slow, bad armour, poor penetration, taller profile than needed due to MG. Meh. Don't see why it's 1.3.
47/32 L40 - AVOID THIS PIECE OF RUBBISH AT ALL COSTS. Same gun as the reserves but you're now at 1.7, same armour, better speed but bad acceleration and mobility, less crew, longer reload, open top, horrific bouncy suspension that takes far too long to settle down, gun depression is bugged to such an extent where it has literally none. Worst tank in the tree.

Come Rank II things get much better, the 2.0 AB43 and M15/42 are both exceptional tanks for their BR and are so far my favourites out of all the low tier vehicles.

Honestly the tree is worse than it should be due to a number of bugs like the 47/32 L40's depression being bugged, MGs not lining up with the guns, and the two Semovente 75 M41's having the same gun and ammunition when they clearly shouldn't (the Semovente 75/32 M41 has a barrel length double that of the 75/18 but has the same penetration as it, Gaijin just copied the stats over ????????????).

The velocity on a lot of the guns are wrong leading to less penetration, and the Breda 501 should have 8 crew instead of 5, though these are just off the top of my head/what I've experienced, there's likely a few more issues. I'm so happy Italian tanks are finally here but they're in a subpar state right now, hopefully Gaijin will address these issues soon.

[Blunder Bro]

Originally posted by Illusionyary:

I'm going through trying to spade as many Italian tanks as I can so I'll offer my opinions on the ones I've spaded so far.

Rank Is.
20mm armed vehicles (AB41, L6/40, AS42) - Absolutely awful until you unlock the HVAP belts, then they become lethal.
Reserves - Good armour for 1.0, good guns, bad mobility.
M14/41 - Same as the reserve but now at 1.7... don't really see the point.
L3/33 CC - Good profile, good speed and good ROF, but the post penetration is awful and you have no armour.
M11/39 - Insane optics for some reason, slow, bad armour, poor penetration, taller profile than needed due to MG. Meh. Don't see why it's 1.3.
47/32 L40 - AVOID THIS PIECE OF RUBBISH AT ALL COSTS. Same gun as the reserves but you're now at 1.7, same armour, better speed but bad acceleration and mobility, less crew, longer reload, open top, horrific bouncy suspension that takes far too long to settle down, gun depression is bugged to such an extent where it has literally none. Worst tank in the tree.

Come Rank II things get much better, the 2.0 AB43 and M15/42 are both exceptional tanks for their BR and are so far my favourites out of all the low tier vehicles.

Honestly the tree is worse than it should be due to a number of bugs like the 47/32 L40's depression being bugged, MGs not lining up with the guns, and the two Semovente 75 M41's having the same gun and ammunition when they clearly shouldn't (the Semovente 75/32 M41 has a barrel length double that of the 75/18 but has the same penetration as it, Gaijin just copied the stats over ????????????).

The velocity on a lot of the guns are wrong leading to less penetration, and the Breda 501 should have 8 crew instead of 5, though these are just off the top of my head/what I've experienced, there's likely a few more issues. I'm so happy Italian tanks are finally here but they're in a subpar state right now, hopefully Gaijin will address these issues soon.

Had bad time with the german 1.0 and 1.3 20mm cannon HVAP rounds. Shoot flat armour at short range that should pen but it doesn't. I avoid that round if I can. The API rounds seem more reliable.

Good armour? If you are talking turret then yeah, but hull armour is flat as my tits and 30mm at best. Until you get the the P40 and semovente SPGs with 50 - 100mm armour, then the only good things about low tier armour are the turrets.

I have noticed the anti-air top mounted MGs are a bit buggy with aiming too.

So It would seem that I am not wrong when I say that tanks are at bad BRs. Good to know.

[Blunder Bro]

Originally posted by Mirage:

The BRs make no sense to me.. I unlock a 1.7 and look at the stats and it has a worse cannon, less crew, exposed crew even, than the reserve tank.. same for the 1.3.. you're better off just sticking with the reserve tanks it seems.
Really no idea how they came up with them.

As for the rest not sure.. I think the 7.7 is the exact same tank as the 9.3 but better ammo. but 9.3 is 100% 10.0 games so your 8.7 tanks are going to get uptiered consistently and make it unplayable.

I was hoping that I was wrong and missed something, but it would seem other people agree.

When the tree was released I made I list of BR loadouts that I would play:
- 1.0 tanks and reserve, maybe 1.3 if included the 20mm autocannon tank.
- 2.0 maybe, but don't really think I can do much with it.
- 3.0 - 3.3 I love the P40 and semovente SPGs.
- 6.7 but don't rely on armour and will probably use those recoiless rifle cars... I hate wheeled vehicles in this game....
- 7.7 and maybe 8.0 or 8.3. Italians don't know what armour is, so top tier AB is going to hurt. The QF-40 seems to be an uptiered Leopard 1, but correct me if it dervese 8.0 and not 7.3. The M47 and Centauro should be 7.3 in my opinion. Never liked the M47 at 7.7 in AB and sabot is so unreliable, but HEATFS hits every piece of spaced armour or tree.... so yeah, can't wait to face all the 9.0s that I am going to be uptiered against.

Going to avoid 6.3 as not really good enough vehicles or enough of them to take out. Also, M26 always gets uptiered and I cannot face Tiger 2s with shells that cannot pen them from the front. APCR cannot be relied on completely and because I play AB, I cannot be sneaky and flank. The entire team knows where I am thanks to the recent changes to scouting mechanic. Even a little hit seems to mark me for a good minutes or so. That's what the bino symbol and circle in the bottom left is about, right?

[Blunder Bro]

Originally posted by czartrak:

L3/33 CC best vehicle

It is a cutie.

[Milk]

Leoncello sucks

[Silent]

I found the low tiers to be sufficient and so far more fun to play than the French. Quite a few vehicles seem to have the wrong stats or are bugged in some way, so I expect a lot of this to be fixed by the time the tree is out of CBT.

[saymyname]

Originally posted by Babaj:

Leoncello sucks

It is still broken, with way lower penetration than it should.

But Gaijin doesn't give a ♥♥♥♥ apparently.

[Blunder Bro]

Originally posted by SAY_MY_NAME:

Originally posted by Babaj:

Leoncello sucks

It is still broken, with way lower penetration than it should.

But Gaijin doesn't give a ♥♥♥♥ apparently.

When do they ever give a ♥♥♥♥ about fixing things? Plenty of broken or inaccurate ♥♥♥♥.

[ErickaUnlimited]

Originally posted by Sexy Vorta:

Some of the 1.3, 1.7 and 2.0 tanks on paper seem to have much higher BRs than they actually should.

Like the M14/41 at 1.7. A little extra horsepower for 1.7? Am I missing something that makes it so much better despite having a weak gun?

M11.39 at 1.3 has worse armour, worse shell pen, worse caliber, main gun isn't in the turret, slightly better speed and maneuverability than the reserve tanks, no capped upgraded shell. Am I missing something? I play arcade so having slightly better mobility doesn't help when the entire team knows where you are.

I tried to discuss the BR decisions for the Italian tree yesterday, but no replies. There are many tanks that I question the BRs for in the Italian tree. The 6.7 M26 only has slightly better shells than the 6.3 one, but at 6.7 it's shells and armour are sub-par when comparing the other 6.7s you will face. Also 7.7 uptiers are almost always gauranteed. Sure you have APCR that can pen over 200mm, but can you really rely on that?

Then you have the M36 sherman at 6.7 with a gun that isn't much better than the M36 at 6.3. The better hull armour of the sherman over the M36 hull isn't a good trade for less mobility and reverse speed as when is a sherman's armour ever going to stop a Tiger 2 shell at 6.7?

Have to agree with just about everything here. There seems to be some glaring issues with the BR setup of some of the tanks, especially as you mentioned with the M11.39 at 1.3. We actually skipped both 1.3s in favor of the reserve tanks because those are just infinitely better for their tiers.

[Blunder Bro]

Originally posted by Mirage:

Had no problems with the P40.. always performed really well.

I have had a bug with it though. 3 side shots with the HEAT at short range against another P40 and on obstacles in the way. Each time it hit, didn't say ricochet or non-pen, did no damage.

Might be a general game bug and not a specific P40 related one. Unless... anyone else?

Other than this ^ Yeah, I like it.

[Blunder Bro]

Originally posted by ErickaUnlimited:

Originally posted by Sexy Vorta:

Some of the 1.3, 1.7 and 2.0 tanks on paper seem to have much higher BRs than they actually should.

Like the M14/41 at 1.7. A little extra horsepower for 1.7? Am I missing something that makes it so much better despite having a weak gun?

M11.39 at 1.3 has worse armour, worse shell pen, worse caliber, main gun isn't in the turret, slightly better speed and maneuverability than the reserve tanks, no capped upgraded shell. Am I missing something? I play arcade so having slightly better mobility doesn't help when the entire team knows where you are.

I tried to discuss the BR decisions for the Italian tree yesterday, but no replies. There are many tanks that I question the BRs for in the Italian tree. The 6.7 M26 only has slightly better shells than the 6.3 one, but at 6.7 it's shells and armour are sub-par when comparing the other 6.7s you will face. Also 7.7 uptiers are almost always gauranteed. Sure you have APCR that can pen over 200mm, but can you really rely on that?

Then you have the M36 sherman at 6.7 with a gun that isn't much better than the M36 at 6.3. The better hull armour of the sherman over the M36 hull isn't a good trade for less mobility and reverse speed as when is a sherman's armour ever going to stop a Tiger 2 shell at 6.7?

Have to agree with just about everything here. There seems to be some glaring issues with the BR setup of some of the tanks, especially as you mentioned with the M11.39 at 1.3. We actually skipped both 1.3s in favor of the reserve tanks because those are just infinitely better for their tiers.

I just cannot see a reason for playing them at a 0.3 higher BR. Especially since some have worse guns, worse armour for a few extra horsepower and no turret, etc etc etc.

I haven't gotten above 3.3 yet and can't say for sure about the top tier tanks ,but by the looks of the stats, just wtf were they thinking with the BRs in this tech tree?